Hm. Flylow pants.

**axebiker** · 08-18-2014, 02:49 PM

I was a bit disappointed to see that they are now omitting the Cordura knee reinforcements on the Magnum & Stash pants. I'll be honest - that was one of the biggest reasons I have been buying Flylow for as many years as I have - DURABILITY, and I really kinda like the "look" of the reinforced knees as well. They still have it on the Chemicals though. Guess that's where I'll have to plant the flag moving forward.

I know they claim it's about weight savings, but honestly - there are a million other choices out there for that. IMO, they shoulda left well enough alone, and just made something with a new moniker. I have a feeling it'll confuse a few people. Glad I read the description pretty close. I might have to look at hoarding a couple more pair of the old ones!

**NW_SKIER** · 08-18-2014, 04:23 PM

Picked up a pair of fl chem pants in an end of season sale last year specifically for the double knee. Hoping they're as good as you say. Can't wait to try em out. Quality is hard to come by these days.

**Bobcat Sig** · 08-18-2014, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by axebiker

I was a bit disappointed to see that they are now omitting the Cordura knee reinforcements on the Magnum & Stash pants. I'll be honest - that was one of the biggest reasons I have been buying Flylow for as many years as I have - DURABILITY, and I really kinda like the "look" of the reinforced knees as well. They still have it on the Chemicals though. Guess that's where I'll have to plant the flag moving forward.

I know they claim it's about weight savings, but honestly - there are a million other choices out there for that. IMO, they shoulda left well enough alone, and just made something with a new moniker. I have a feeling it'll confuse a few people. Glad I read the description pretty close. I might have to look at hoarding a couple more pair of the old ones!

I don't believe the Stash pant ever had reinforced knees.

**DoWork** · 08-18-2014, 06:01 PM

I laughed at "weight savings" being a reason to can them.

Without those reinforced knees they're just another pair of the same pants everybody else makes.

**JFE24** · 08-18-2014, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

I don't believe the Stash pant ever had reinforced knees.

True. The Stash never did.

**NW_SKIER** · 08-18-2014, 06:39 PM

Also lightweight and durable cannot be used in the same product description. Everything I've ever owned advertised as lightweight hasn't lasted long.and definitely wasn't durable.

**axebiker** · 08-18-2014, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

I don't believe the Stash pant ever had reinforced knees.

Originally Posted by JFE24

True. The Stash never did.

You guys are right. I was thinking a little sideways. The cargo pockets just had me thinking they did.

**axebiker** · 08-18-2014, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by DoWork

I laughed at "weight savings" being a reason to can them.

Without those reinforced knees they're just another pair of the same pants everybody else makes.

Kinda my thoughts too. Smells more like cost cutting.

**angrysasquatch** · 08-18-2014, 07:34 PM

I can't think of the last time I was on my knees skiing. You can't kneel comfortably in ski boots, or balance on the toe of your hard boot very well. When eating shit, usually your grill or flailing arms kiss the ground before your knees do. I've taken only one good fall in my Magnums, and took some rock to the back thigh/ass. Double knees are more useful for boarders I think. I would rather not have em on mine, they don't flex quite as they should with.

As for why I got Magnum BC over other pants; tall sizing, full zips (soo good) and bootop reinforcement. They better have left boottop alone, it is the one place where there is no flex required, and edges and crampon mishaps eat it up more slowly. Even extend them a bit...

**iscariot** · 08-18-2014, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by angrysasquatch

I can't think of the last time I was on my knees skiing.

IIRC the chemical pant was originally designed as a tele pant, thus the reinforced knee.

**adrenalated** · 08-18-2014, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by angrysasquatch

I can't think of the last time I was on my knees skiing.

I guess you don't dig snowpits?

**DoWork** · 08-19-2014, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I guess you don't dig snowpits?

Or patrol

**axebiker** · 08-19-2014, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by DoWork

Or patrol

This. Of the 20% of your shift that you actually get lucky enough to spend on skis, you probably spend about half of that on the snow, on your knees. Actually to the point that I wear my BD knee pads all the time now - tele or alpine - indispensable in keeping knees protected while kneeling on icy chunder, and more importantly, WARM. I'm a tele guy too - or at least I was until I blew up my ankle again last spring. They sure do help when bouncing the dropped knee off of various random stumps, cans, and, ahem, glassware.

The term "jumped the shark" comes to mind.

**teledad** · 08-19-2014, 09:45 AM

With young kids I spent lots of time kneeling on the ground helping them get their boots on. Happy to have the extra fabric on my Chemicals (and the knee pads underneath). 4 years now (~250 days) and still going strong (blew out a side zip but Flylow fixed it under warranty).

**bern43** · 08-19-2014, 02:09 PM

I taught my 4 year old to ski last year and I appreciated the knee reinforcements on my Chemicals. Do people actually care about weight savings on a pair of ski pants?

**jmars** · 08-19-2014, 04:01 PM

I agree with all who have a similar love for the re-enforced knee. I can't for the life of me believe that the R&D determined more sales without the re-enforced knee. To me the re-enforced knee was a staple and a trademark of FlyLow......I saw my first pair of chemicals back in the mid 2000's and thought YES carhart ski pants! This smells like accountants running the product line which leads me to believe that I'll be able to pick up more FL gear on SaC and other discount sites. I would happily pay retail too to help support FL but the re-enforced knee is a want. To many other lightweight, techy, weight weenie options out there which blow out to often and can't take the hit from some tree bark.......end of rant.

Can FL comment on this? My gf LOVES her FL pants, especially the re-enforced knees

**axebiker** · 08-19-2014, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by jmars

I agree with all who have a similar love for the re-enforced knee. I can't for the life of me believe that the R&D determined more sales without the re-enforced knee. To me the re-enforced knee was a staple and a trademark of FlyLow......I saw my first pair of chemicals back in the mid 2000's and thought YES carhart ski pants! This smells like accountants running the product line...

Glad I'm not the only one thinking this.

**hopelesslyadolescent** · 08-19-2014, 10:41 PM

Just received a pair of Flylow Snowman pants from STP. They also have the reinforced knee. Nice pant.

**mfa81** · 08-19-2014, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by hopelesslyadolescent

Just received a pair of Flylow Snowman pants from STP. They also have the reinforced knee. Nice pant.

crazy deals on STP, wish they had the bibs!

**axebiker** · 08-20-2014, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by hopelesslyadolescent

Just received a pair of Flylow Snowman pants from STP. They also have the reinforced knee. Nice pant.

Yep. And from last season. Nice pants - I picked up a pair last spring. STP rules!

**D'Micah** · 08-20-2014, 08:28 AM

hey guys, flylow sales guy here. as for the reinforced knees you will ALWAYS have them on the chemical and baker bib. i like the comments about r&d and accountants. there are only 6 of us total at flylow, we dont really have giant corporate departments n such. the reason we took the knees out of the magnum was simply that our retailers did not want them and consumers were confused with every pant we make having the knee. quite often the consumer would be looking for a chemical pant and accidentally buy the magnum. the magnum was always built more for touring so the light-ening of the pant made sense to us.
anyway, thanks for the discussion, hope that helps.

**axebiker** · 08-20-2014, 08:38 AM

Thanks for chiming in! Always good to get the word from the mothership!

That said, isn't "the knee" kinda FL's "thing"? You kinda built your reputation and following in large part because of it. It was always a centerpiece in all the marketing vids & paper. The big pocket on the thigh, the different material & colors, and the tag saying "Magnum" weren't enough to tip them off that it wasn't the Chemical? I'd be a little concerned bout my retailers. As one other person mentioned, I've never seen a comment HERE about FL pants needing to be lighter, but I don't work with you guys, so you're the experts. Longer zippers, yes, but not lighter. The zipper thing was addressed - and adressed quite well!

Just a long-time user. I'd hate to see a drop in what made you guys the awesome company you are.

**cinnepa** · 08-21-2014, 06:52 AM

what pant or bib is offered in a TALL? don't see any on the site.

**skuff** · 08-21-2014, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by mfa81

crazy deals on STP, wish they had the bibs!

Originally Posted by axebiker

STP rules!

Backcountry has Flylow products on sale also.

Love the fit and finish of my stash pants and Mrs scuff wears her Charlie jacket whenever she has an opportunity.