CCDB Inline Air

**shirk** · 08-05-2014, 03:44 PM

Anyone actually ridden one yet?

I was pretty set to get a Monarch Plus, but having second thoughts and the new Inline might be the better shock for my single pivot build.

The leverage ratio will be pretty linear maybe slightly regressive.

The Inline should allow better tuning without needing to crack it open for a re-shim. Re-shimming the Monarch doesn't seem that hard and there is good info online, but still gotta get the shims and open the sucker up.

Would the Monarch be any better for long descending? Does it hold much more oil?

So anyone actually have time on one?

**joetron** · 08-05-2014, 04:12 PM

I've got one coming on my Warden, but won't have it built for another few weeks....plus, it's about the furthest thing from a single pivot possible.

But I sure am excited to fuck around with it. I'm hoping I can tune in a bit more platform without losing to much of the gooooosh.

**Lindahl** · 08-05-2014, 05:22 PM

Also curious about this vs a Monarch Plus or Float X for long descents... seems weights are similar. Any theorizing?

**grinch** · 08-05-2014, 05:35 PM

Interested as well. May need the extra volume for my rune though. Inline is a decent price compared to db air CS. Not sure on price difference coated to monarch but monarch felt great on short spartan demo ride

**Lindahl** · 08-05-2014, 05:55 PM

Endstroke on the rune is pretty regressive isn't it? Should be able to get away with a lv shock.

**grinch** · 08-05-2014, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Endstroke on the rune is pretty regressive isn't it? Should be able to get away with a lv shock.

I'll have to check again. Thought it said extra volume. Could v well b mistaken. Does blow thru the travel a touch w the rp23. Not as much as rune v1 w Dhx air. Inline might b the ticket

**JeffreyJim** · 08-05-2014, 06:20 PM

I'll be on one starting tomorrow. Also have a Monarch Plus Debonair

**Lindahl** · 08-06-2014, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Also curious about this vs a Monarch Plus or Float X for long descents... seems weights are similar. Any theorizing?

Found this on the Avalanche website, in reference to the Float CTD (NOT Float X):
"The piggyback shocks will dissipate heat more quickly and have about 30% more oil."

The CCDB inline is being advertised as having about 35% more oil. Thus, it sounds like the CCDB inline, Float X, and Monarch Plus all have about the same amount of oil, with the CCDB inline possibly having slightly more? The difference will be, then, in heat dissipation capability. I would think having most of the oil in the piggyback and the external shell not closely coupled to the external shell of the air shaft/piston would tend to dissipate heat better -- how much? No clue. I would also think that the continual circulation of oil in the CCDB inline might improve things a bit as well?

Is the heat build up in the air shaft/piston caused by the friction in the piston, or the compression of the air?

**frorider** · 08-06-2014, 11:04 PM

Installed the inline on my Bronson last week and feel like I have the settings pretty dialed in now.

Feels like a CC twin tube shock, no surprise there. The climb mode setting is overly restrictive, at least on the Bronson. No heat issues on long descents. So yeah, for trail/AM bikes where you want lightish weight but decent performance it seems to be a stronger choice than a float X. I like the full adjustability but not everyone does.

**frorider** · 08-06-2014, 11:06 PM

Lindahl, the main heat issue in small air shoicks like the Float is the small volume of damping oil. Which is why piggyback reservoirs help.

**Lindahl** · 08-07-2014, 07:32 AM

And why the CCDB inline should be just as good as piggybacks, given the similar increase in oil volume?

**frorider** · 08-07-2014, 07:45 AM

I was just responding to your last sentence:

Is the heat build up in the air shaft/piston caused by the friction in the piston, or the compression of the air?

My point was that damping oil gets hot in a coil or air shock. Cycling oil thru shims or constrictions = heat.

All else being equal, a larger alu shock body (incl reservoir) increases surface area for cooling. Secondary consideration vs oil volume. You probably know all this but again, I was just responding to your last sentence.

**nickwm21** · 08-07-2014, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by frorider

Installed the inline on my Bronson last week and feel like I have the settings pretty dialed in now.

Feels like a CC twin tube shock, no surprise there. The climb mode setting is overly restrictive, at least on the Bronson. No heat issues on long descents. So yeah, for trail/AM bikes where you want lightish weight but decent performance it seems to be a stronger choice than a float X. I like the full adjustability but not everyone does.

You don't seem impressed by it. I have a Bronson and want to swap out the CTDK. What would rather have on the bike?

**kidwoo** · 08-07-2014, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by frorider

it seems to be a stronger choice than a float X.

What are your gripes with the float x shocks? I was hoping they finally started making good air shocks again with that one. They finally quit overdamping them from what I can tell from the ones I've bounced around on. I still haven't ridden one though.

**JeffreyJim** · 08-07-2014, 09:04 AM

Float X is really just a Float with better heat dissipation in my experience. They do well on bikes that don't need a lot of compression damping (EG: NOT my Covert).

I've been a lot happier with the Monarch in comparison. More mid stroke support, smoother off the top, easier to tune, can rebuild on my own yadda yadda yadda.

I think the Float X was a band-aid until the next hotness comes out (or so a little birdie told me...)

**hardboiled** · 08-07-2014, 10:07 AM

having never ridden a CC shock before, does anyone have a take on the practical performance differences, if any, between tuning via oil flow (Cane Creek) versus tuning shim stacks like you get when you choose a low/medium compression/rebound tune from Rock Shox etc.?

**Lindahl** · 08-07-2014, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by JeffreyJim

Float X is really just a Float with better heat dissipation in my experience. They do well on bikes that don't need a lot of compression damping (EG: NOT my Covert).

I've been a lot happier with the Monarch in comparison. More mid stroke support, smoother off the top, easier to tune, can rebuild on my own yadda yadda yadda.

I think the Float X was a band-aid until the next hotness comes out (or so a little birdie told me...)

Push Industries seems to disagree.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19...at-ctd-264864/

They said the Float and Float X have different damping mechanisms. The Float is still dependent on factory set preloaded boost pressure, and the Float X uses a shim stack.

Further reading in that thread indicates that the Float X has different damping pistons for LSC (CTD switch) and the shimmed HSC, whereas the Float has a single damping piston for both (using the preloaded boost valve to provide HSC on top of the LSC?). I believe this means that changing the LSC (CTD) affects the HSC and visa versa?

Ignoring the difference in the location of the HSC, I believe both use similar LSC circuits for the CTD switches - probably with slightly different characteristics/tunes.

(Note I may be using HSC incorrectly - it may be more of a mid-speed and high-speed together, or it could be more position-based - in fact, for the Float, I think it is, but basically, I mean non-LSC/CTD damping. Shim damping, ala Float X, I believe, are always speed sensitive?)

**JeffreyJim** · 08-07-2014, 11:18 AM

You are correct Lindahl from a mechanics perspective. I'm more or less implying the shock *rides* more similar to a better-heat-dissipation Float CTD than "mini DH air shock". Very subjective, yes.

To add, I've noticed a fair amount of variance shock to shock (yes, shocks that should have the same tune...) This should be taken care of for the following year being Fox has started dynoing every damper that leaves the factory to make sure it falls within an acceptable "test" range...

**JeffreyJim** · 08-07-2014, 11:25 AM

I should add all of the above mentioned shocks kick ass. Where the Float X starts to feel less-than-perfect is in single pivot applications that put more "requirements" on the damper.

**Lindahl** · 08-07-2014, 11:30 AM

You mention the demand for more midstroke support - isn't that a function of the leverage curve and not the suspension type (single vs other)?

Looking at the leverage curve of the Covert, it looks relatively linear with a strong regressive flair that starts about midstroke - well suited to a LV shock (or a float with a high boost valve tune?).

Or do you mean some other demand?

**frorider** · 08-07-2014, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by kidwoo

What are your gripes with the float x shocks? I was hoping they finally started making good air shocks again with that one. They finally quit overdamping them from what I can tell from the ones I've bounced around on. I still haven't ridden one though.

Actually I was planning on getting the float X last december but didn't get around to it. Glad I waited though, since this inline ticks the boxes for me. You have experience with vivid c and air, and i assume you agree that HSR + LSR controls are a good thing...which float x etc lack.

As a jaded consumer I don't rave excessively about 'game changer' blah blah blah products. So I hope no one concludes that I don't like the Inline. It delivers exasctky what I expected--that CCDB feel and adjustability in a compact, light pkg with decent heat performance.

**JeffreyJim** · 08-07-2014, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

You mention the demand for more midstroke support - isn't that a function of the leverage curve and not the suspension type (single vs other)?

Looking at the leverage curve of the Covert, it looks relatively linear with a strong regressive flair that starts about midstroke - well suited to a LV shock (or a float with a high boost valve tune?).

Or do you mean some other demand?

The covert is super linear to start and then falls off in the end. What this translates to is a bike that uses too much travel at inappropriate times. This is actually something plenty of riders may actually like as it can feel "plush" at low speed and despite never "feeling" bottom utilized all its travel ALL the time. When pushed hard however, its not so ideal. Messing with air spring curves can help, so can messing with compression damping. But even with the max number of spacers in a Float X with firm compression tune, it was far off of what I'd consider on-par with other bikes' suspension pairings. This is probably a reflection of the design more than the Float X - but there are other single pivots out there (and for good reason, they work!). Orange, SC Heckler etc. In these applications I think the Float X isn't the most ideal shock. In a linkage manipulated design it could be fine.

Realize, I am looking for something a bit different too. I want something that is on the firmer side through the middle part of the bike's travel. Probably why I loved my Mojo so much. It wasn't plush. But it was fast.

**kidwoo** · 08-07-2014, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by frorider

Actually I was planning on getting the float X last december but didn't get around to it. Glad I waited though, since this inline ticks the boxes for me. You have experience with vivid c and air, and i assume you agree that HSR + LSR controls are a good thing...which float x etc lack.

When they do what they claim to do, yeah

I had fun with a boxer damper removed from my fork. That ending stroke (high speed) damper doesn't do what it claims to do. And the ending stroke rebound damps the entire travel range just like every other fork. But with the LSR completely backed off, I could run through the range of the HSR damper and not feel a lick of difference. Maybe they're not independently functioning though....

I use them on the rear on my DHR but that thing has a really weird leverage curve. That's the only bike I've ridden and had time to mess with them though. I'm not sure I'd say it's a necessity, or even relevant on all frames (like shirk's here). I don't think I'd be as picky about it on my trail bike (also dw but with a very consistent curve).

I bounced around on buddy's a pivot mach 6 that had a float x on it. In terms of what I've most disliked about fox air shocks lately, it seems they'd started addressing that. IE: really weird compression damping settings.

How heavy is the inline cane creek? The db air ones are freakin heavy. That was actually my biggest gripe.

**Lindahl** · 08-07-2014, 12:12 PM

IMO, the Vector HLR might be a good pairing with the Covert, with it's bottom-out control. Though, it may not kick in early enough. Though, really, you should probably just get a different frame. The Vivid Air is also supposed to be pretty damn progressive and may be a good fit.

While great in other areas, the SB66 had the same problem for me. Haven't stuck shims in the can yet, though. Its missing that huge regressive flair of the Convert, also - just a tiny one. Its funny because I thought it was a progressive design, and was totally shocked how easily it would bottom out. Then I saw the leverage curve and it all made sense. Its surprising how many people love the bike, for how easily it bottoms out. Took it off a 5' drop, big mistake. Super hard bottom out. Hah.

**JeffreyJim** · 08-07-2014, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

IMO, the Vector HLR might be a good pairing with the Covert, with it's bottom-out control. Though, it may not kick in early enough. Though, really, you should probably just get a different frame. The Vivid Air is also supposed to be pretty damn progressive and may be a good fit.

While great in other areas, the SB66 had the same problem for me. Haven't stuck shims in the can yet, though. Its missing that huge regressive flair of the Convert, also - just a tiny one. Its funny because I thought it was a progressive design, and was totally shocked how easily it would bottom out. Then I saw the leverage curve and it all made sense. Its surprising how many people love the bike, for how easily it bottoms out.

Ridden a Vivid Air a whole bunch. Good shock. Far more linear however (although tunable). Realize, I wasn't having problems with bottom out but the actual spring rate as a whole.

I am not complaining now however, Monarch Plus is kicking ass!!