which is the best ski tuning machine?

[herrNielssen]

Hello all,

I am looking for the state of the art in fully automatized ski tuning/service. Which machine is best? How much is it? What can it do that its competitors cannot? Are there any cheaper alternatives that still have reasonable performance?

A lot of people seem to prefer manual tuning, what are the reasons for this?

Thanks!

[SB]

The green one.

[Cabinfever]

My right hand.

[Brianskis]

I would also say the green one will do ya pretty good.

What might you be wanting to do with this machine?

[XXX-er]

I am pretty sure the best ones are blue

when is the shill gona show up?

[stuckathuntermtn]

I think the green one is the best, like they said and it costs about $50.

[XXX-er]

more like half a million $ and the most clueless ski shop employee can press the button feed the skis in, they get spit out and are perfect ... truely fucking amazing IMO

but why is buddy asking here ?

[~mikey b]

You guys don't know what you're talking about...

A good shop has all three.

Green one for beginner skis.
Blue one for intermediate skis.
Black one for advanced skis.

Higher end shops offer more: like the Herman Miller Aeron tuner in True Black for expert only skis.

I'm not sure what tuner you should use for "backcountry" or "extreme" skis.

[herrNielssen]

Should I ask in another forum? The reason I am asking about these things is sort of a market analysis, I want to know what is out there and what people think, how much these machines cost etc.

I was asking here because I figured there would be some people (e.g. someone who works in a ski shop) who would share some information. But 7 out of 8 guys replying instead chose to attempt to be funny.

[dark_star]

[SiSt]

Should I ask in another forum? The reason I am asking about these things is sort of a market analysis, I want to know what is out there and what people think, how much these machines cost etc.

I was asking here because I figured there would be some people (e.g. someone who works in a ski shop) who would share some information. But 7 out of 8 guys replying instead chose to attempt to be funny.

Then you should have said so. And stated what you´re trying to figure out. And why we should bother helping you with what you want to figure out.

If you´re proposing something truly interesting, you´ll be surprised at how helpful the feedback can be. If you´re just looking for a free market analysis, you´ll get nothing but comedy of varying quality.

Otherwise, I´ll go with Montana, which are blue.

[skifishbum]

definately a montana
but painted reichmann blue
with red pin striping
pm ryan dunfree for the ski tuning machine market research forum

[joetron]

I'll go with the green ones. Ceramic disc edge cutting ftw.

[buttahflake]

wrong on the green one, we have both.
blue machine wins by a mile

[old goat]

Should I ask in another forum?

Yes. Nobody here tunes their skis. Try Epic, they have a whole forum devoted to tuning, As far as attempts to be funny, nobody over there has a sense of humor, especially in the tuning forum, so you should be safe.

[ZomblibulaX]

I'll throw the OP a bone.

In all honesty, the best machine is the one with an experienced and attentive technician who knows what to look for and how to get the results (s)he and the customer desire.

I'm a bit biased towards the green ones because I've worked with a lot of Wintersteiger/Grindrite machines, but have also used a couple different Montys extensively and a Reichmann or two, even a Snowell for a little while. I've seen shop rats roach a ski with a half of a million dollars worth of machinery at their fingertips, and I've seen WC techs do shit with a stand-alone 130mm stone that pretty much blew me away. Its not the arrow, its the Indian.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Should I ask in another forum? The reason I am asking about these things is sort of a market analysis, I want to know what is out there and what people think, how much these machines cost etc.

I was asking here because I figured there would be some people (e.g. someone who works in a ski shop) who would share some information. But 7 out of 8 guys replying instead chose to attempt to be funny.

Telemike didn't just attempt to be funny, he actually made me lol. Ask a stupid fucking question, get a stupid fucking answer. Well, you would probably still get some stupid answers if you bothered with this elaboration in your first post, but you may have even gotten some serious answers and serious help. Or you could just ask short stupid vague questions on a place on the internet known for asshatting hilarity and then get all indignant about it.
Dick.

[otto parts]

http://s189.photobucket.com/user/Col...qandp.mp4.html

[skimaxpower]

You cannot afford the "best" ski tuning machine. You can't even afford the sixth best ski tuning machine. Much of this equipment costs twice as much as my house.

Call up an industry rep and see what you can afford - probably used tuning equipment. Oh, and this is totally correct:

Its not the arrow, its the Indian.

[jwolter7]

If the auto machine is operated correctly, then it can turn out a very good tune. Most shops go through ski back shop employees faster than they go through soft wax on a warm sticky spring day. After a few years of shop turnover who is now the expert on this very specific machine?

The automated machines grind too much off the ski. They are all about speed of the tune up, not about the quality of the tune.
The tuner (if there even is a person who actually knows how to tune skis...) is not looking closely at the ski to see what is needed to complete the service, and more importantly what is not needed.
The auto machine use higher stone speeds and higher weight/grinding pressure to take off the most material in the least amount of passes. This method of speed grinding over heats the bases of the skis and changes the base quality unless the proper finishing of the ski is performed after the grinding.
Most all of the skis are over tuned in automated grinding machines which can dramatically shorten the life of those skis. Your tuners (actual people) will never learn ski observation skills/hand tuning skills.

Every ski town has one or two shops that have excellent service shops.
The easiest way to tell if you're in a good ski service shop: Look in the back room and see if the space is taken up by one big machine, or if the shop has a few different machines in use and also have work benches where the skis are finished by hand after the grinding process. Also look for real wax scrapping on the floor (you might just be amazed at how many shops refuse to hot wax skis with an iron anymore...). The real test of a good tune shop is how consistently the edges are finished, and their wax choice for the day. A good tuner knows the current conditions and knows how to produce the right edge sharpness for the current local conditions. The correct edge sharpness changes every couple of days at most big mountains. The best tuners work on knowledge gained from past experiences. They develop a feel for the local conditions.

The big machines are perfect for large rental/demo operations based on volume, the machines don't spend too much time thinking about any one skis needs, just like most of the large rental shop employees.

Again, with the right operators all machines (even old ones) can produce very good tunes.
A bigger and newer machines is no guarantee that your skis will be prepared correctly for your day.

Shop for the most experienced people, not machines when looking for the best tune at your local ski area. If the shop has a big auto machine then you might want to question if they even try to hire experienced tuners in that back shop anymore. Many shop owners feel they don't need good hand tuners once their new shinny machine arrives at their front door.

The positive thing about the big auto machines in the state of Colorado is that the machine did not just return from their Rec64 work break.

[XXX-er]

I have a pair of foam core BD verdicts (atomic) that came railed/concave base so I jumped at the 1/2 price stone grinds for racers and course workers at the whistler DH, so on my day off I leave my skis at this shop where I am told my skis will be done tomorrow no problem ... very important cuz I only brought one pair of skis.

The next day buddy hands me back my skis which are not done but somehow made it into the "done" rack, buddy sez come back in 45 min, no worries I just wander down the street to the weasel tent and stumble back 3 hrs later, hurry up and wait I am standing in the shop needing to piss badly so I ask to use the can, wander thru the shop where buddy is caught in the act ... loading my skis into the Montana saphir.

I laugh and yell "you forgot to do them again!" which really pissed him off cuz then he gets all uppity, which is ironic cuz I am the one who should be pissed off but instead I'm just pissed to the gills on free beer, buddy tells me I could come back (ya right) or wait for my skis so I wait what seems to be 10min and they came out of the machine looking perfect and they now ski perfect, I could not have done as good a job by hand

so IME some random shop idiot(s) who couldn't organize their shop did an amazing job in 10 min once they remembered to load the skis & push the button

[stuckathuntermtn]

This thread sucks

[~mikey b]

I did my best

[stuckathuntermtn]

Can't deny that.

[Garth Bimble]

Go to SIA...you'll find out all you need to know about tuning machines, and then some.

Like jwolter said, the big, automated machines are designed for shops that tune a lot of skis, particularly a lot of rental skis. The machines even have a setting specifically for rentals. Tune quality is important but not as important as quantity. Given the price (around $200,000 for the really big ones IIRC) you need to run a lot of skis through to make it pay.I don't do it anymore but for a couple of years I handled accounting for an Austrian company that had the tuning contract with VR. They wouldn't buy a machine outright, instead they'd lease them and we would charge a monthly fee plus a charge per pair of skis/snowboard that were run through the machine. The more they put through, the more we charged. This included service, parts and a preseason/postseason overhaul. For the bigger shops (Vail/BC/Breck/Keystone and Aspen Sports) we also supplied an on-site tech to keep an eye on things.

We did make an automated machine that was designed for smaller shops. You could only run one ski through at a time. Can't remember how much it cost but unlike the bigger machines on this one the ski would sit in a fixed position while everything else moved around it. This made the machine much smaller and quieter (and cheaper) than the big ones.

Bottom line, if an experienced tech who knows the machine sets it up and monitors a specific pair of skis going through, you can get a good tune out of them. But if you're one of the unwashed masses who gets a random tune on one, don't expect much.