The $1000 Trail BIke - Can it be done?

[JeffreyJim]

$10,000 bikes are cool. So are supercars, fast motorcycles and airplanes. Fact is, most people won't own any of these things.

Its awesome there has been so much emphasis on the top end of the market. And I understand the whole "trickle down effect" arguement. But still, the price of a legitimate full suspension mountain bike has been creeping up for a long (long) time.

So I ask the TGR collective, with careful parts selection, a direct-to-consumer model and, in the end, a real ripping bike, is there a market for such a product? Can it be done? I think so...

Target: 33 pounds or less
Travel: 140-150mm
Wheels: 27.5
Parts: X-Fusion/Deore level/China OEM stuff
Wide bars, short stem, solid geometry (fun)
Frame Material: Alloy or steel
Frame Design: Single pivot driven linkage, FSR or similar.
Price: $1000-1200

[cbrady21]

might be a tough shot with the 650b wheels. Much more manageable to do if shooting for a 26" wheel.

[TahoeJ]

Obviously there's a market just like there'd be a market for $15,000 BMW's.

Nice idea, but not with any chance of making even a small profit I suspect. What's the cheapest FS bike you can even find right now? $1700 - $1800? Plus 27.5" makes everything more expensive.

[JeffreyJim]

Is 27.5 in fact more expensive? I do not believe it is. Remember, this would be a project that would bring in a fair amount of China OEM parts (that would be tested first).

Wheel size, good suspension, geometry and cockpit fit (wide bars/short stem) really doesn't cost anything...

[shirk]

Mtb is too fashion driven, without some serious marketing drive and hype I don't think that you could hit the volume numbers to make it happen.

Without actually knowing the OEM cost on things it's a futile argument.

[JeffreyJim]

Mtb is too fashion driven, without some serious marketing drive and hype I don't think that you could hit the volume numbers to make it happen.

Without actually knowing the OEM cost on things it's a futile argument.

Lets say I do know... and lets say margins were in the 35-40% range.

[Swine]

Lets say I do know... and lets say margins were in the 35-40% range.

So why not just answer your rhetorical question for us?

[shirk]

I'd question why isn't Hyper/Mongoose/someone else already doing this?

A quick back of the napkin numbers it might look possible, but add in most of the real hard costs of doing business and you need to go higher in price thus putting you in direct competition with the likes of Giant and the other big guns.

[JeffreyJim]

So why not just answer your rhetorical question for us?

Really asking more if this group of people believes the demand exists. Apologies on the poor titling of the post.

[Lindahl]

Pretty sure bikesdirect.com represents approx how trimmed a business can get on pricing. They seem to be doing ok.

[jamal]

So basically a bikes direct version of this?

http://www.konaworld.com/precept_dl.cfm

[TahoeJ]

Really asking more if this group of people believes the demand exists. Apologies on the poor titling of the post.

Yes, there would be demand. A more casual rider who has never gone FS but doesn't want to spend $2500 - $3500 to find out the difference.

[smmokan]

Pretty sure bikesdirect.com represents approx how trimmed a business can get on pricing. They seem to be doing ok.

That's the first thing I looked at when I saw this post:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...house-2750.htm

$699 with slightly lower component levels than you "spec'd".

[::: :::]

[nevermind, ^^^^^ beat me to it]

[Hugh Conway]

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[zombinate]

I built up a first-gen Surly Instigator frame like this. cost me about $1100. I'll see if I have pics.

[JeffreyJim]

That Kona is pretty rad. Close to what I had in mind. The Bikes Direct is pretty far off however. End of the day, I suppose this may not be the best group to ask...

[joetron]

Is 27.5 in fact more expensive? I do not believe it is. Remember, this would be a project that would bring in a fair amount of China OEM parts (that would be tested first).

Wheel size, good suspension, geometry and cockpit fit (wide bars/short stem) really doesn't cost anything...

I'd say good suspension does cost something. Even with x fusion OEM pricing, I feel like it'd be difficult to hit $1000 msrp and get a decent margin.

I think $1500, maybe a bit less, would be a very workable price, and you could actually make money on the relatively small market you're appealing to. Gotta build in a little marketing cost. Selling 100% on low price is kinda tough. Silly as it it seems, too-cheap tends to devalue a product.

[kidwoo]

I'd say good suspension does cost something. Even with x fusion OEM pricing, I feel like it'd be difficult to hit $1000 msrp and get a decent margin.

I think $1500, maybe a bit less, would be a very workable price, and you could actually make money on the relatively small market you're appealing to. Gotta build in a little marketing cost. Selling 100% on low price is kinda tough. Silly as it it seems, too-cheap tends to devalue a product.

Stop trying to throw good brakes at my face!!!!!!

[DirkaDirkaJack]

this is a little closer to your idea

[chatton18]

When I was getting back into mtn biking after a while, I rode my old GT triple triangle/judy/v brake set up for a month or two, realized it was too small/etc. looked around for a new bike. I almost ended up with one of the sette bikes from pricepoint which came in with a relatively solid x7 build kit, the suspension was probably a little suspect with a tora fork. I ended up getting a GT on closeout from performance bike for about the same price with slightly better parts/build. Back then, you could find a better bike online if you looked around a bit. Granted, it was 2009 and everyone was sitting on a ton of inventory from the recession, but I think deals around 1k still pop up from time to time on new bikes.

I'd aim for $1200 and keep it around 5inches of travel. Your target is going to be new riders.

[SB]

Buddy was gonna drop hammer on a lasy yrs $800 cdale scalple wit da RS fork but he bailed.

Its too bad cus he usually sells at a 50% loss within 4 months.

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[creaky fossil]

So I ask the TGR collective, with careful parts selection, a direct-to-consumer model and, in the end, a real ripping bike, is there a market for such a product?

who do you imagine as the "market" for these bikes? are you trying to suggest that existing $1000 FS bikes at Walmart and Shopko and Costco and Target somehow fly under the radar of the Serious Bro Hardcore Honch Who Needs Modern Aggressive Enduro Geometry? Are you saying the discount FS bikes lack the SBHHWNMAEG's aesthetic cues? Is this some way for you to show us that real riders like Aggressive Enduro Geometry and the market is failing to deliver on that, at the bargain end?

Why can't these target buyers choose something like a Kona Honzo and be done?

I suggest you have a long talk with the web-sage, Cory Blackwood at Kona. He knows everything, including what you know but don't realize yet about yourself because you're not as hip and smart as Cory. But fear and fret not, nobody is as clever as Cory. Ask his mom. Plus he's all inked up, so you know he knows his shiznit.

If you're serious, you could always punch up a 100 bike test package either through Maggot Trust Fund contributions (Da's estate lawyer said I could flex 50% of Sept 2014's monthly, broheem!) or kickmeintheheadstarter and float it.

But what are you doing that YT isn't doing? Or Fezzari, for that matter?

You could always copy Fezzari in every way but rename them with a much better name than the bicycle world's version of Vanilla Ice.

I suppose there is a market for a totally cheaped-out, loose-tolerance, non-durable version of the Guerrilla Gravity project's trail bike. Can I be your outside lawyer handling warranty and other commercial claims? I'll only charge $175/hr, and it'll be a bargain compared to your exposures, guaranteed!

[donkeykong]

Of course there is demand for it, who wouldn't want a cheaper bike.

It's definitely feasible to piece together used bike components to make a pretty decent build, but I think it's a loooong stretch to do at the new, retail level. At least for full suspension.

[BushwackerinPA]

the thing about modern 'aggresive" "enduro" geometery is that newbs will benefit just as much as people who post here.

The Giant Stance at 1500 is about as close as I can think of. Good geo, good cockpit, thru axle air fork, deore components.