Patagonia ultralight down hoodie

**iceng** · 07-21-2014, 10:57 AM

I bought a Mountain Hardware synthetic sweater 4 years ago that is pretty much dead. This time around I'm going for the Patagonia ultralight down hoodie. Does anyone know if Patagonia changes their design every year? Should I buy now or wait and see it a 2015 upgrade is coming out?

ALSO, any feedback on the ultralight versus the down sweater? I could have sworn the ultralight used to be 900-fill and now its only 800. I'm wondering how much warmer the down sweater will be...

**Flyoverland Captive** · 07-21-2014, 11:04 AM

I've got a few, and they don't seem to change from year to year.

The ultralight is great as a base layer, but wind goes through it if it's your outer. The regular down sweater is definitely warmer, and more wind-proof.

**iceng** · 07-21-2014, 12:06 PM

Thats good to know! Sounds like I probably should NOT get the ultra light as I want this to be an outer layer for the most part. I could have sworn the ultra light used to be 900 fill. Maybe I'm crazy. Marmot makes one with 900-fill.

**dark_star** · 07-21-2014, 12:59 PM

FWIW I have the Down Sweater Special edition, 900 fill I think. It's the best garment that I own. Packs down to nothing and is warm as hell, can be an outer layer or a mid layer. They've since raised the price (and I bought mine on clearance anyway) but it's worth it if you can find one at a decent price.

**Shredhead** · 07-21-2014, 03:01 PM

Patagonia's having a sale starting 7/24.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 07-21-2014, 03:48 PM

Something worth noting- the regular down sweater is cut for people with a gut. The Hi-loft down sweater is a more athletic cut. At least that was the way it was a few years back.

**Lindahl** · 07-21-2014, 04:20 PM

Why not look at other designs/companies? Why only Patagonia?

**skimaxpower** · 07-21-2014, 04:52 PM

I think the "sweater" is a much more versatile weight than the "ultralight" version. Same amount of fabric to carry - it's worth it to pay a bit more for the feathers.

I have a patagonia down sweater hooded pullover with kangaroo pocket. They stopped making it about 5 years ago, but it's awesome. Fewer zippers to get caught in hip belt, and kanga pocket is great for holding a warm water bottle. Highly recommended if you can find one used.

**Flyoverland Captive** · 07-21-2014, 05:30 PM

The ultralight is definitely more athletic cut than the regular down sweater. Even the sleeves are slimmer.

**dark_star** · 07-21-2014, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by iceng

I bought a Mountain Hardware synthetic sweater 4 years ago that is pretty much dead. This time around I'm going for the Patagonia ultralight down hoodie. Does anyone know if Patagonia changes their design every year? Should I buy now or wait and see it a 2015 upgrade is coming out?

ALSO, any feedback on the ultralight versus the down sweater? I could have sworn the ultralight used to be 900-fill and now its only 800. I'm wondering how much warmer the down sweater will be...

Also, have you considered warrantying the mountain hardware sweater? IMO it shouldn't die after only four years...

Sent from my SM-N900V using TGR Forums

**auvgeek** · 07-21-2014, 09:57 PM

^^IME, synthetics can die relatively quickly, especially when washed.

I'm not sure why the OP is limiting himself to patagucci, why he cares about 800 vs 900 fill power, or why he's switching from synthetic to down. Seems like he needs to decide how much fill and what sort of face fabric he wants. Also: there's a HUGE difference between a 9 oz (Pata UL), 15 oz (e.g., FF Hooded Helios), and 23 oz jacket (e.g., OR Maestro w. full box-baffle construction).

**adrenalated** · 07-21-2014, 11:01 PM

I don't think the OP understands what fill power is. You realize that fill power and warmth are not at all related, right?

**trex_9** · 07-22-2014, 09:14 AM

i got a good deal on a marmot quasar hoody, which is their higher end down jacket recently that is 900 FP + an athletic fit if that is what you are looking for. great quality on par with patagonia i think. worth a shot if you can get a discount on it, steep and cheap had them on recently for $180.

**iceng** · 07-22-2014, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I don't think the OP understands what fill power is. You realize that fill power and warmth are not at all related, right?

IMO higher fill is always more desirable. No, higher fill does not mean warmer but it does mean more efficient. I can stay just as warm with less down (lighter down) if my fill is higher quality. Lighter and more efficient. Cost being the same that always sounds better to me. The reason I might NOT want to go with the ultra is b/c its not as warm (it has less down even though higher fill.)

**iceng** · 07-22-2014, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by trex_9

i got a good deal on a marmot quasar hoody, which is their higher end down jacket recently that is 900 FP + an athletic fit if that is what you are looking for. great quality on par with patagonia i think. worth a shot if you can get a discount on it, steep and cheap had them on recently for $180.

My wife has the Marmot Quasar jacket. Great jacket. I am thinking about it as well but I have some brand loyalty to Patagonia. Style, responsibility, quality, Patagonia does the best job in all these areas. The Patagonia jacket does have a chunky fit to it. The athletic fit of Marmot might win me over. I wonder if its as warm as the Patagonia... Just checked. The quasar is 13.1 oz @ 900 fill and the Patagonia is 15.1 oz @ 800 fill. I wonder which is warmer or are they equal and one is just lighter?

**iceng** · 07-22-2014, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I don't think the OP understands what fill power is. You realize that fill power and warmth are not at all related, right?

I just have to reply to this again. Just reread your comment and it seems your the ignorant one here. Two jackets with equal grams and all other things being the same BUT one with 800-fill and one with 900-fill: the one with 900 fill WILL BE WARMER! Warmth and fill power are DIRECTLY related. Sorry to burst your bubble.

**adrenalated** · 07-22-2014, 10:24 AM

No, warmth and loft are directly related. The amount of loft and therefore air trapped determines how warm a piece is. As you noted, a higher fillpower means that the same amount of down (by weight) lofts out to a larger volume. So yes, you are correct: two jackets, both with 2oz of down, the 900 FP will be warmer than the 800 FP. But a FP change in the exact same jacket by the manufacturer isn't going to change the size of the baffles, just the amount of down that they put in. So they will weigh different, but warmth will be the same.

Since nobody actually publishes the volume of the baffles their down is filling, for the most part, it's pretty tough to compare warmth of jackets on paper.

In any case, to answer your original question, Patagonia rarely changes anything other than color in their products, though I have not seen the spring '15 catalog so can't promise it will remain unchanged.

If you really want the lightest and bestest, look at Western Mountaineering Flash Jacket.

My apologies for the harshness of my previous post.

**adrenalated** · 07-22-2014, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by iceng

My wife has the Marmot Quasar jacket. Great jacket. I am thinking about it as well but I have some brand loyalty to Patagonia. Style, responsibility, quality, Patagonia does the best job in all these areas. The Patagonia jacket does have a chunky fit to it. The athletic fit of Marmot might win me over. I wonder if its as warm as the Patagonia... Just checked. The quasar is 13.1 oz @ 900 fill and the Patagonia is 15.1 oz @ 800 fill. I wonder which is warmer or are they equal and one is just lighter?

13.1 oz X 900 in^3/oz = 11790 in^3
15.1oz X 800 in^3/oz = 12080 in^3

Based on that I'd expect the Patagonia would be slightly warmer.

**iceng** · 07-22-2014, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

13.1 oz X 900 in^3/oz = 11790 in^3
15.1oz X 800 in^3/oz = 12080 in^3

Based on that I'd expect the Patagonia would be slightly warmer.

Very helpful! Can't argue with math. When I'm spending ~$300 on a jacket I feel justified in splitting hairs. The western mountaineering flash Jacket looks great. Too bad it's not as aesthetically pleasing as I'd want.

**iceng** · 07-22-2014, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive

The ultralight is definitely more athletic cut than the regular down sweater. Even the sleeves are slimmer.

Just got of "chat" with Patagonia. The #84701 jacket is their 2014 updated style. I was told its 2" smaller in the chest, and 1" longer. The hoody is also smaller and no longer helmet compatible. I don't live by a Patagonia store. Has anyone noticed the size/fit changes? More Better fit?

**auvgeek** · 07-22-2014, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by iceng

The reason I might NOT want to go with the ultra is b/c its not as warm (it has less down even though higher fill.)

Really? How much fill does each have? I think the face fabric is the main difference in weight. BTW, both use 800 FP down.

What kind of weather-proof and durability requirements do you have? You have to take into account the face fabric if you plan on wearing the jacket as an outer layer. Light and durable are opposites. Speaking of which, higher FP down has a shorter life.

Both the MontBell Mirage and the GoLite Bitterroot offer more fill at a lower an overall weight than the Patagonia Sweater (though Montbell achieves such a low weight by using a 7D face fabric). There are plenty of other brands to check out as well: Feathered Friends, Mountain Equipment, Rab, etc.

PS. adrenalated's math would be correct if it were done for the fill weight, but you gave him overall jacket weight.

**adrenalated** · 07-22-2014, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

PS. adrenalated's math would be correct if it were done for the fill weight, but you gave him overall jacket weight.

Yes. I probably should have looked that up.

**iceng** · 07-22-2014, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Really? How much fill does each have? I think the face fabric is the main difference in weight. BTW, both use 800 FP down.

What kind of weather-proof and durability requirements do you have? You have to take into account the face fabric if you plan on wearing the jacket as an outer layer. Light and durable are opposites. Speaking of which, higher FP down has a shorter life.

Both the MontBell Mirage and the GoLite Bitterroot offer more fill at a lower an overall weight than the Patagonia Sweater (though Montbell achieves such a low weight by using a 7D face fabric). There are plenty of other brands to check out as well: Feathered Friends, Mountain Equipment, Rab, etc.

PS. adrenalated's math would be correct if it were done for the fill weight, but you gave him overall jacket weight.

That makes sense. I'm guessing fill weight isn't a spec that will be easy to track down. I plan to wear the jacket primarily as an outer layer. Which I think rules out the Pata ultralight (the face fabric doesn't look very durable.) Thoughts?

**auvgeek** · 07-22-2014, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by iceng

I plan to wear the jacket primarily as an outer layer.

For what? Walking the dog? Climbing Rainier in a day? Hitting on moms in Whole Foods?

How hard are you on your gear? I have a synthetic jacket with a 10D face fabric that I use as an outer layer, but I'm careful not to catch it on stuff. Personally, I'd go for the GoLite one. Seems the best balance of weight, warmth, and durability for ME and what I'd use it for. Edit: plus, it has DownTec and is a good price. Apparently, the only major complaint is the lack of a zipper baffle. It's hard to say, though, because it appears the MontBell Mirage may have box-baffle construction. If so, that could make it warmer than the GoLite at the same weight, provided the 7D face fabric is wind resistant...

Edit2: The Rab Infinity looks like a warmer GoLite: same face fabric (10D Pertex Quantum) but a few more oz of fill.

PS. Don't forget about fit.
PPS. I'm sick today which is why I'm bothering to look up all this stuff on the interwebz. Gives me something to do.