Moving to Jackson

**Tippster** · 08-22-2014, 09:21 PM

I too have $10 to spend on someone willing to do my property management research for me.

**_Aaron_** · 08-22-2014, 10:02 PM

Since this seem to be turning into the jh housing thread I might as well throw my hat in the ring as well. Looking for a place in town starting end of October. Quite places are nice.

**Foggy_Goggles** · 08-23-2014, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

How do you suppose they can "crack down" on VRBO'ers? That rumor doesn't sound too legit.

Big Sky seems to be having similar struggles to a lesser degree. The problem seems to be complicated with no easy solution. Not quite sure what we're gonna do, but I also don't see how JH/BS can keep operating if their employees can't afford to live there (while the mountains and local businesses keep paying so little)...or simply find available housing. Boot all trust-funders out, perhaps? That'll clear up some space! ;-)

a. Municipalities is resort are troll craigslist/VRBO/AirBnB for short term rentals (or pay a firm to have it done). They make the offenders pay any applicable lodging taxes and local sales taxes. They will also threaten to turn them in to the HOA, State, IRS etc. It is an unregulated, untaxed business competing against highly taxed and regulated hotels, motel and condos. Those doing it by the books are pissed.

b. Nothing new that businesses in resort towns sometimes get to pay below market wages because of the over supply of workers who don't need their wage to pay there bills (studends, trust funders, semi-retired, rich people from somewhere else). I love the Tetons put couldn't (afford or want) to live in Jackson. My best friend lives in Driggs and loves it. At that point, you probably don't have a pass The Village which make it a little weird. You'd have one of the top 5 ski areas in the country a hour away but you can't afford to ski there.

**Benny Profane** · 08-23-2014, 07:29 AM

Watch NYC fight the new internet hotel industry as they set some precedent. Big fight there with the big buck hotel industry making major moolah (try finding an NYC room less than 300 on short notice) vs the non tax paying and unregulated Airb&b and homeaway people.
Big tearjerking commercial campaign on my tv right now here portraying the Airb&b people as practically public servants providing shelter for the unfortunate. They even used Sandy refugees as an example.

**Tippster** · 08-23-2014, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

a. Municipalities is resort are troll craigslist/VRBO/AirBnB for short term rentals (or pay a firm to have it done). They make the offenders pay any applicable lodging taxes and local sales taxes. They will also threaten to turn them in to the HOA, State, IRS etc. It is an unregulated, untaxed business competing against highly taxed and regulated hotels, motel and condos. Those doing it by the books are pissed.

Regarding VRBO they may be pissed but AFAIK renting out your property for the short, medium, or long term is not illegal. There might be a tax/fee that they can impose but that structure doesn't exist yet, at least around here. What is the difference between renting your property to some ski bum for the season vs. to tourists for a week at a time?

AirBNB confuses me. Are you actually living with people for the term of your stay, say in an extra bedroom?

**Benny Profane** · 08-23-2014, 08:02 AM

In some cases, yes.

**Tye 1on** · 08-23-2014, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

How do you suppose they can "crack down" on VRBO'ers? That rumor doesn't sound too legit.

there's a town or county ordinance that prohibits less than 30 day rentals. Plus if it's under 30 state regs looks at it like a hotel, and has fire requirements that kick in...sprinklers maybe?

**Mazderati** · 08-23-2014, 10:44 AM

**zion zig zag** · 08-23-2014, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

there's a town or county ordinance that prohibits less than 30 day rentals. Plus if it's under 30 state regs looks at it like a hotel, and has fire requirements that kick in...sprinklers maybe?

This. Planning passes ordinances that state what types of occupancies can exist in what zones. And being identified as having a mostly transient occupant base changes the occupancy of a residency to an R-1, which would in turn require fire sprinklers and alarm systems if the local jurisdiction or state it's located in follows NFPA 101 or the International Fire Code.

**MontuckyFried** · 08-23-2014, 07:02 PM

Seems that some here don't quite know what they're talking about. VRBO and all vacation rentals ARE subject to state/local/resort lodging taxes. Also, VRBO submits your income amounts to the IRS, so yes, vacation rental owners are also definitely on the hook for income taxes, too.

Obviously there are a LOT of vacation rental condos and houses at Jackson and other resorts. First off, the vacation rental owners (who happen to make up a rather large percentage of owners in Jackson) would not stand for that to begin with, but let's say it happens. You take away their ability to use their homes as they see fit, and you will see a massive increase in home sales, and thus prices would plummet. Prices plummet, and so do assessments, thus city, county property tax revenue goes down. Additionally, the state and resorts would miss that lodging tax revenue. All the different taxing authorities obviously would not want that to happen. Nor would the resorts want to see such a decrease in visitors. Vacation rentals are often the only way many tourists can afford to go to these places to begin with, and definitely contribute to increased ticket/retail/food sales at the mountain and around town.

Getting rid of vacation rentals is a good way to help wreck your local tourist-based economy.

So basically, dont expect a crack down a "VRBO'ers" in major resort towns. It ain't gonna happen.

Hugh Conway · 08-23-2014, 07:14 PM

err - multiple resorts towns already have. carry on.

**BmillsSkier** · 08-23-2014, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

So basically, dont expect a crack down a "VRBO'ers" in major resort towns. It ain't gonna happen.

Don't underestimate the butthurt of an established industry, whether it be lodging, transportation or whatever, when a new player comes in, starts competing and taking their piece of the overall pie.

See Uber.

**concretejungle** · 08-23-2014, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Don't underestimate the butthurt of an established industry, whether it be lodging, transportation or whatever, when a new player comes in, starts competing and taking their piece of the overall pie.

See Uber.

Or more locally for MT breweries only serving 3 beers due to tavern and their lobbyists but carry on.

**Benny Profane** · 08-23-2014, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

Seems that some here don't quite know what they're talking about. VRBO and all vacation rentals ARE subject to state/local/resort lodging taxes. Also, VRBO submits your income amounts to the IRS, so yes, vacation rental owners are also definitely on the hook for income taxes, too.

Obviously there are a LOT of vacation rental condos and houses at Jackson and other resorts. First off, the vacation rental owners (who happen to make up a rather large percentage of owners in Jackson) would not stand for that to begin with, but let's say it happens. You take away their ability to use their homes as they see fit, and you will see a massive increase in home sales, and thus prices would plummet. Prices plummet, and so do assessments, thus city, county property tax revenue goes down. Additionally, the state and resorts would miss that lodging tax revenue. All the different taxing authorities obviously would not want that to happen. Nor would the resorts want to see such a decrease in visitors. Vacation rentals are often the only way many tourists can afford to go to these places to begin with, and definitely contribute to increased ticket/retail/food sales at the mountain and around town.

Getting rid of vacation rentals is a good way to help wreck your local tourist-based economy.

So basically, dont expect a crack down a "VRBO'ers" in major resort towns. It ain't gonna happen.

Er, hahahaha. Ha. Suddenly RE values in one of the most beautiful places in the world with all the modern convieniences and very high end recreational oppurtunities will plummet when all the owners stamp their feet and hold their breath and sell! sell! sell! their prescious second and third homes because of a few new taxes and regulations. Tee fucking hee. Oh, I forgot, an RE market that is extremely restricted in size due to the fact that it's one of the most beautiful places in the world, and, fortunately, thank god, the powers to be have protected it from sprawl. Somewhat.

Don't you worry one bit. If RE prices in Jackson "plummet", there will be a zillion Bennys bidding it right back the fuck up. But I doubt they will in the first place.

**BmillsSkier** · 08-23-2014, 08:05 PM

^^^
Better set up your lemonade stand Benny. I don't think that inventory will last long.

**Lawless** · 08-23-2014, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

Seems that some here don't quite know what they're talking about.

Sorry, couldn't quite pass up the irony of this statement right before the rest of your post.

Short term rentals have always been illegal here outside of the lodging overlay. Its been brought up recently because people have ignored it lately and its been getting a little out of hand. Its not just the hotel business which is bitching, it's neighbors of these places which are really being affected. Do you want to live next to different people every few days who are all on vacation? I own a house here in town and none of my neighbors are on this, but I'd be pretty pissed if I had to deal with people partying next to my house every night of the week. I know a few people who do have to deal with it and it sounds shitty to me.

Houses that are located within the lodging overlay here are valued higher because short term rentals are legal there.

**BmillsSkier** · 08-23-2014, 08:26 PM

I thought the entire premise of the TGR lifestyle was that your entire life is a vacation? Is this exclusive or just not open to people who rent in town?

**Benny Profane** · 08-23-2014, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

^^^
Better set up your lemonade stand Benny. I don't think that inventory will last long.

Artesian chipotle smoked bacon lemonade, sir. You heard it hear first. My retirement plan.

**BmillsSkier** · 08-23-2014, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Artesian chipotle smoked bacon lemonade, sir. You heard it hear first. My retirement plan.

Not only do I think that artisan lemonade will be the kale-like trend of the aught-teens but that sentence above of yours was genius.

Hugh Conway · 08-23-2014, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Don't underestimate the butthurt of an established industry, whether it be lodging, transportation or whatever, when a new player comes in, starts competing and taking their piece of the overall pie.

See Uber.

Didn't Hilton Head fine a bunch of VRBO'rs? Are you the loud guy yelling in town council meetings about how car stickers are an imposition on your constitutional rights?

**MontuckyFried** · 08-23-2014, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lawless

...Do you want to live next to different people every few days who are all on vacation? I own a house here in town and none of my neighbors are on this, but I'd be pretty pissed if I had to deal with people partying next to my house every night of the week. I know a few people who do have to deal with it and it sounds shitty to me.

And you don't get any of that with long-term rentals filled with 12 ski bums all pitching in to afford rent, along with their gypsy couch-surfing friends? NTTAWWT.

I don't know what quaint gated community some of you apparently must live in, but I've seen PLENTY of long-term rental units having big parties all nights of the week doing the very same things that others get mad at the vacationers for doing. Do you not live in a ski community? I thought that was part of the lifestyle. Or maybe it was until you got old and decided that wasn't cool anymore. Sounds like Jackson's been overrun by a bunch of party-pooping cranky old farts...and hoteliers upset at those who dare intrude on their potential customers.

**Lawless** · 08-23-2014, 10:05 PM

Jackson is not just a ski bum party town. There's people who actually work full time jobs here too and get to live and enjoy this area all year round. I would say a vast minority of rentals are taken by the party crowd. Lots of young professionals, couples, and families renting houses.

**BmillsSkier** · 08-23-2014, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

Didn't Hilton Head fine a bunch of VRBO'rs? Are you the loud guy yelling in town council meetings about how car stickers are an imposition on your constitutional rights?

Nothing I've heard of... Yet.

I love this island and part of what makes it great (the uber restrictive light and land use restrictions) can also be what makes things a pain in the ass. (See: changing out light fixtures on our lagoon dock that faces nothing but Spanish moss-laden oak trees) In our neighborhood of the plantation not many people rent their places out but I do know for a fact that AirBnB and VRBO are alive and well in the plantation.

Give it time though, there's enough crotchety old farts with nothing more titilating to do than show up and yell at an architectural review board meeting. As I said, it's part of what made this island.

Oh, and to answer your question my sticker does annoy the shit out of me as it's dangerously close to the rain sensing thing by my rear view mirror. I feel for the plebs that have to actually affix theirs to the paint of their cars.