WTB: New (for me) AM/Trail bike

[forty]

fyi, im a lanky (scrawny) 6'3'' and the xl mojo hd left me feeling like a gorilla on a circus bike, geo seems more suited to the shorter crowd imo

+1 for cb wheelset concerns, my friend has a nice scar from burping one on his hd at an inopportune moment, and another folded his in half within the first few rides of new, they actually scare me as a bike part, and im only 165lbs

as a tall guy my ticklist includes the standard buzzword geo, slack ha, short cs, low bb
but then add super super long tt, and a really steep sta
thats my 2 cents anyway

[grinch]

^^well put

Turner has NOS 5Spot frames for $1800, you could put together one for $3000 or a little more depending on what you want and whether you pick new or used fork.

x2. 5 spot would be a great bike. aluminium, 1.5 headtube, iscg 05and best customer service bar none.
FWIW spitty was designed around a 160 fox fork(similar axle to crown as a 55)

[Lindahl]

Good point about the long TT for tall guys, that suggests either an Endorphin (or other FSR styles). Mini-link bikes like DW and VPP tend to be shorter. Kona might be a good option too, but not on the used market.

x2. 5 spot would be a great bike. aluminium, 1.5 headtube, iscg 05and best customer service bar none.
FWIW spitty was designed around a 160 fox fork(similar axle to crown as a 55)

A 160 55 or 170 55?

[grinch]

A 160 55 or 170 55?[/QUOTE]
haven't looked it up but I think I recall a 160 fox had a taller axle to crown than a 160 55 . I switched around different forks so might be mistaken but changed from a 160 36 to a 180 totem thinking I was going to slackin my 150 v1 rune and axle to crown was the same, then later added a 160 55 wc ti. just sold my 160 55 wc ti fork yesterday in favor of the vengeance hlr to have 650 compatability like my new v2 rune . the x fusion has been great but I miss some of the suppleness of the 55. pedaling up thru roots it just ate them up as you kept pedaling along. other than that they both have great mid stroke support(ride high diving in to corners) and I still get the travel out of them when needed without harshness

[creaky fossil]

Also, a 170mm fork on a Spitfire kinda sounds silly to me. Yeah, it can take it, but I'd much rather have a 150mm for climbing's sake, if this is gonna be an 'everyday' bike. A 170mm fork is very heavily biased towards the DH on that bike.

Holy moly, I agree! 170 not just "heavily biased toward DH" but also completely absurd on that frame. I would say a fat-stanchion 150 (like a lowered Lyrik) would be biased toward DH and 170 amount is just excessive, if you want more rake then use an angleset, don't jack up the front like a 70s gearhead-wannabe putting air shocks on his Chevelle to jack up the rear end to look drag-race-y. Let that sucker stay more planted with a more balanced front/rear travel. If you want to run 170 up front then get whatever is a skip up from Spitfire. Rune?

I've run 09 36 (160) on my 5Spot and it feels way better with the shorter axle-to-crown Revelation at 150, handling wise. Revelation obviously not as burly and tuck/twist resistant as 36 but it's 1 lb lighter and axle-to-crown makes handling much more balanced. I had to ride more front-axle-biased with the 36 and while that's fine when descending steeps it's less useful where the pitch is lower.

Good point about the long TT for tall guys, that suggests either an Endorphin (or other FSR styles). Mini-link bikes like DW and VPP tend to be shorter. Kona might be a good option too, but not on the used market.

Turners have pretty long top tubes if you realize the Turner L is more like others in M. Dave Turner mentioned this several years back, maybe 2011, in the Turner forum at emptybeer. Check how their sizes run to XXL where others go to XL. My '11 5Spot Lg is about the same eff TT as my '08 575 Med, a tiny bit longer maybe. With better standover. I think Santa Cruz and Intense are shorter even at Lg (which is a true large). I can't even consider a SC or Intense in medium unless I want to ride like a velociraptor/preying mantis.

[angry swede]

Don't know if OP said anything about wheel size, but for long top tubes how has no one mentioned the sb-66 yet, should be able to find one of those built up nice in your budget as well.

[AlexC]

Look's like you made your decision, but I'm here to tout the Rocky Mountain Altitude. I picked up the 730 at the start of the season and I'm really happy with it. I'm 6"3, about 180, and the XL fits me well, though I put on a shorter stem than the stock one. The Ride9 technology is a nice perk. I tried out a few settings and settled on one I really like. It's great going up and down, though I haven't taken it on any really burly descents yet. My only complaint is the internal routing for the rear derailleur. I've already had to get the cable replaced twice because it's crimped up and stopped shifting properly.

[grinch]

Holy moly, I agree! 170 not just "heavily biased toward DH" but also completely absurd on that frame. I would say a fat-stanchion 150 (like a lowered Lyrik) would be biased toward DH and 170 amount is just excessive, if you want more rake then use an angleset, don't jack up the front like a 70s gearhead-wannabe putting air shocks on his Chevelle to jack up the rear end to look drag-race-y. Let that sucker stay more planted with a more balanced front/rear travel. If you want to run 170 up front then get whatever is a skip up from Spitfire. Rune?

I've run 09 36 (160) on my 5Spot and it feels way better with the shorter axle-to-crown Revelation at 150, handling wise. Revelation obviously not as burly and tuck/twist resistant as 36 but it's 1 lb lighter and axle-to-crown makes handling much more balanced. I had to ride more front-axle-biased with the 36 and while that's fine when descending steeps it's less useful where the pitch is lower.



Turners have pretty long top tubes if you realize the Turner L is more like others in M. Dave Turner mentioned this several years back, maybe 2011, in the Turner forum at emptybeer. Check how their sizes run to XXL where others go to XL. My '11 5Spot Lg is about the same eff TT as my '08 575 Med, a tiny bit longer maybe. With better standover. I think Santa Cruz and Intense are shorter even at Lg (which is a true large). I can't even consider a SC or Intense in medium unless I want to ride like a velociraptor/preying mantis.

Damn creaky. U gonna make me look this shit up. Spittys designed around 160 fork and will still be low w that 170 55. Also knew that shit drives the xc crowd nuts. That's a coastal "trail" mang(add gogs and it's an enduro). Is it silly to put a 150 fork on a 120 frame or the other side, a 200 mm triple on a 170? Depends on the frame. Spitty' d. Be awesome with that. Bobber when you're standing and pedaling but sit and pedal away

[creaky fossil]

Damn creaky. U gonna make me look this shit up. Spittys designed around 160 fork and will still be low w that 170 55. Also knew that shit drives the xc crowd nuts. That's a coastal "trail" mang(add gogs and it's an enduro). Is it silly to put a 150 fork on a 120 frame or the other side, a 200 mm triple on a 170? Depends on the frame. Spitty' d. Be awesome with that. Bobber when you're standing and pedaling but sit and pedal away

good thing I'm not a Banshee rep, with me not knowing those details.

I thought it was basically a Banshee 5Spot, designed around 140-150, though I guess if Banshee says it'll go with 170 it will be like a lightweight version of the old Big Hit with 26/24.

Lots of people are willing to endure more discomfort on the climbs than I am, I'd find the front end floaty and too needy myself with 170/140(145?) travel blend. If you like that shit, you should do it... even if you do end up looking like a preying mantis on the climbs!

I thought Brant Richards was fooling around with FS designs that had 30-50mm disparity between rear and intended fork. He said he liked the mules. Though it seems they'd be like I said, floaty and needy up front, anywhere but steep descents. Are you up in steepsland BC?

[Lindahl]

Curious... why design the Spitfire with a long travel fork when you have a long travel Rune to sell? Can't seem to make sense of that one.

Seems like NSMB is almost thinking the same thing:

"Most Trail bikes these days dip below the 27 pound mark with a similar build and pedal more like XC bikes than the AM rigs of yore. While the Spitfire’s 140mm of travel might make you think it’s a pedaler, the reality is it’s much closer to an AM bike than a Trail bike. Descends like a beast, but won’t go uphill fast. It should be noted that the 2014 bike will have internal dropper routing and Keith is rumoured to have knocked a few hundred grams or more out of this frame and the V2 Rune."

If it doesn't climb like a trail bike, but doesn't have big travel of an AM bike... why not just get the Rune (or a real trail bike)? Which leaves the Spitfire in a weird no man's land?

[grinch]

I'm sure it pedals better than my rune(rune pedals fine)or atleast I'd think it would w same design/suspension and less travel. I haven't tried one but also think it'd be great bike for 240lb rider. both will take a bit to get below 30lbs but built to last and very adjustable(bike of the day on vital is sweet eg). lot of great bikes these days though. loved the Spartan I demoed, rocky altitude wasn't on my radar but tried a friends and was really impressed(short stays, felt plush for how well it pedaled and very adjustable) and always like turners(sadly his chainstays have grown with dw link but fine for tall people). large people CAN have problems with fit on ibis' and santa cruz'. they don't work for me(short tt, no SO, long stays and vpp grows even longer, steaper ha). my .02. different strokes

[grinch]

good thing I'm not a Banshee rep, with me not knowing those details.

I thought it was basically a Banshee 5Spot, designed around 140-150, though I guess if Banshee says it'll go with 170 it will be like a lightweight version of the old Big Hit with 26/24.

Lots of people are willing to endure more discomfort on the climbs than I am, I'd find the front end floaty and too needy myself with 170/140(145?) travel blend. If you like that shit, you should do it... even if you do end up looking like a preying mantis on the climbs!

I thought Brant Richards was fooling around with FS designs that had 30-50mm disparity between rear and intended fork. He said he liked the mules. Though it seems they'd be like I said, floaty and needy up front, anywhere but steep descents. Are you up in steepsland BC?

that's the thing I'm discovering. we all know slack ha works good going down but after a ride or two you get used to where or what the front is doing when you're climbing. it just becomes intuitive after a couple rides. of course you have to go full package with the long top tube so you can go ultra short stem(for required reach) along with the bars to mitigate wheel flop. not to mention the balance you get with the wide platform and closeness to steerer radius(here I go beating that drum again but just put my 30mm stem on 2 days ago and climbed 1800m today with a 65 ha and it was a noticeable improvement even over the 40 I had on). i'd only want a 67+ ha if I was slicing and dicing thru the trees on flatter terrain I think. I just got a buddy on works component headset for his giant faith(they've been notoriously steep until this yr-glory and faith). he liked it so much hey put a -1 degree on his old faux bar turner 5 spot with 1 1/8 headtube. first thing he reported back was how well his fork worked when he was climbing up thru rough roots and rocks. fork angled out just eats up the rough and roots. he was expecting to livin it up on the downs but is now completely stoked on it. by the way , I thought faux bars were probably shit until I tried his old 5 spot. its awesome. I don't know what yr but its old/older and long tt, short stays , pedals great and plush for a 140 bike(ahead of its time)

[creaky fossil]

always like turners(sadly his chainstays have grown with dw link but fine for tall people).

Didn't 5Spot CS stay at 16.9 through each change from Horst to TNT to dw-link?

that's the thing I'm discovering. we all know slack ha works good going down but after a ride or two you get used to where or what the front is doing when you're climbing. it just becomes intuitive after a couple rides. of course you have to go full package with the long top tube so you can go ultra short stem(for required reach) along with the bars to mitigate wheel flop. not to mention the balance you get with the wide platform and closeness to steerer radius(here I go beating that drum again but just put my 30mm stem on 2 days ago and climbed 1800m today with a 65 ha and it was a noticeable improvement even over the 40 I had on). i'd only want a 67+ ha if I was slicing and dicing thru the trees on flatter terrain I think. I just got a buddy on works component headset for his giant faith(they've been notoriously steep until this yr-glory and faith). he liked it so much hey put a -1 degree on his old faux bar turner 5 spot with 1 1/8 headtube. first thing he reported back was how well his fork worked when he was climbing up thru rough roots and rocks. fork angled out just eats up the rough and roots. he was expecting to livin it up on the downs but is now completely stoked on it. by the way , I thought faux bars were probably shit until I tried his old 5 spot. its awesome. I don't know what yr but its old/older and long tt, short stays , pedals great and plush for a 140 bike(ahead of its time)

Slackening HA and raising head tube/hands are two different issues. Though a longer-than-normal fork will slacken HA and raise hands at the same time, angleset doesn't push your hands toward the sky like a longer fork will. Also, taller fork pushes BB up, angleset drops it.

Slacker HA reduces stopper effect when hitting squarer things but lightens front wheel tracking. Steep HA makes you have to do little lifts/unweights on the stopper hits. Too tall up front can make uphill switchbacks require more work than necessary, and makes you have to weight the front axle more everywhere generally. That's what I've found anyway.

Not everyone is picky about the same things, and some people aren't picky at all. If you aren't picky about something, you don't have to take as gospel for you the words of someone else who says that thing is annoying to him/her. It's only bad if it's bad for you.

Then again, there's that old cliche: the best you know is the best you know. And I've known some people who ski pretty damned well on beat down skis and sloppy fitting boots. Hell, I bet there are tons of fine skiers who can't do a dolphin turn!

[Lindahl]

I'm also one who is bothered by slack HA when climbing. Its mostly in the steeps and switchbacks. Big fan of travel adjust when done right (uturn was the shit, pissed it went away and never made it industry wide - a marzocchi 66 with uturn woulda been awesome).

[creaky fossil]

Another climbing issue with a too-tall front: numbnuts. You have to run your saddle nose-down so it's not crushing your prostate when the trail tips upward and you have to get out on the nose to keep the front wheel honest. At its worst when the bike is too tall up front and the effective seat tube angle puts your hips too far rearward. You can get around these issues by walking, or by always climbing singlespeed style - out of the saddle.

[Chugachjed]

Sweet baby jeebus. I started this thread to get somebody to sell me a bike. Now it's an mtbr thread about head angle TT length and climbing.

The spitfire thing is irrelevant because the only one I can find used won't ship it to me. I'm looking at the TR build on a Turner Burner despite the shitty fork and wheels.

[creaky fossil]

Get Burner, sell fork & wheels in favor of fork/wheels you want.

[grinch]

hahaa, that turner be a keeper. grow old with that

[Chugachjed]

Anybody have a pivot firebird for sell? The problem is that there are way too many really good bikes now.

[SB]

My buddy has a Pvit Fbird and will not part with it. Sweet bike now even better with 650b.

The Tburner would be nice also.

[Chugachjed]

Turner Burner TR build ordered. My lbs (one man show) is going to either get different wheels from Turner or work out a credit and then build me some wheels. Stokalicious.

[grinch]

Yes man. Thought turner used rebadged sun ringle's. They're decent

[Chugachjed]

Stock wheels for that build are mavic crossride shits that I would crush.

[grinch]

K ya durable bike needs durable wheels eh

[Chugachjed]

Yep, for sure. I have crushed many wheels. My shop dude will build me a bomber set.