Warning: gel packet degradation of avy beacon signal!

[Jonathan S.]

Yes, if you choose to carry your beacon in a pants pocket, then nothing else should be in that pocket.
But realistically, it might be commingled with something else.
Or even if in a separate pocket, it might overlap with the contents of a separate yet adjacent pocket.
Bottomline: Keep that beacon away from a mass of gel packets, as the effect on the beacon's *transmission* strength can be very noticeable.
I ran a bunch of tests on this today (with explanations in the captions at top right):
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...65260504180769
... which simulate quite accurately were I to combine my occasional (yet fortunately separate) habits of carrying in a pocket my beacon and a zip lock bag of Gu packets.
(Note that similar claims are made here, but no specifics, and mixed in with lots of other material, some of it kind of questionable concerning detuning.)

[Dromond]

Does this remain a problem for people who carry less that 25 Gu packets on them at all times?

[Jonathan S.]

How can you possibly have enough energy to ski tour w/o at least a couple dozen Gu packets?
Seriously though, a ziplock bag of 5 or 6 would probably suffice to degrade the signal if kept in the same pants pocket as a beacon.

[angrysasquatch]

Skiers going for pocket beacons, really? Use the chest harness, that way it's at center mass, and the searching beacon will do its best to find the center of you. Pocket beacons for summer mountaineering, well OK but avys are the danger when BC skiing, you might as well have it work right.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

People have been using beacons in pockets for quite a while. Some well respected guides even recommend it. Having your beacon in a cargo pocket on a lanyard is really nice. I really doubt it would increase recovery times.

[Jonathan S.]

Way back in March 2009, I was very surprised to see that Joe Stock carried his Tracker DTS in a pants pocket. But he came back at me with the observation that I almost always skinned up wearing only a shirt on my upper body, so I therefore had no outer layer over my beacon harness. (Touché!)
Still though, carrying a beacon in a pants pocket always seemed too bulky to me, and even more so once I switched almost exclusively to touring with Dynafit Movement tights. However, the Tracker3 is slimmed down enough to make that arrangement feasible for me, so I’ve been using it for all my spring tours this year. (The weight differential though is not discernible.)

[PNWbrit]

Way back in March 2009, I was very surprised to see that Joe Stock carried his Tracker DTS in a pants pocket. But he came back at me with the observation that I almost always skinned up wearing only a shirt on my upper body, so I therefore had no outer layer over my beacon harness. (Touché!)
Still though, carrying a beacon in a pants pocket always seemed too bulky to me, and even more so once I switched almost exclusively to touring with Dynafit Movement tights. However, the Tracker3 is slimmed down enough to make that arrangement feasible for me, so I’ve been using it for all my spring tours this year. (The weight differential though is not discernible.)

So that's a GU pack bulge in your tights?

[summit]

Skiers going for pocket beacons, really? Use the chest harness, that way it's at center mass, and the searching beacon will do its best to find the center of you. Pocket beacons for summer mountaineering, well OK but avys are the danger when BC skiing, you might as well have it work right.

Location is a pretty weak argument. Where my beacon sits in my pocket is about 6-9" off from where it sat when I wore a harness. Since that is much smaller than the CEP for a beacon+first probe, I don't worry...

We can have a little contest to see who can get their beacon out the fastest, harness vs pants, particularly in a layered winter situation where you have the harness zipped under 3 layers. We can also discuss the fact that tons of harness wearers have their beacon on over their base layer and nothing over it while skinning on spring or even warmer winter days and the risks that poses.

Both are safe ways to wear a beacon if used appropriately. I personally think the pocket is the better choice IF your pants have the right pocket (interior waist or bib, not bellowed/cargo) and secure it with a lanyard.

[angrysasquatch]

Hmm, never thought about those points guys. I hate the band of sweat that accumulates around the harness, might try the pocket out next year.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

When I said cargo I guess I really meant a thigh pocket with zip and a clip for your lanyard. That's what I like.

[BFD]

funniest thing in this thread is that JS would comment on where Joe Stock carries his beacon.

[Shadam]

it seems most avy's kick the crap out of everyone in it. a thigh pocket just doesnt seem secure enough for me. even if its "secured" to the pants, thats still only material. not structural.
we hear stories of people having packs ripped off thier backs. helmets and gloves ripped off. A weighted item bouncing around on your thigh doesn't seem right to me.
I deffinately agree that my tranny under 2 layers and in the cold of winter will take a little longer to get it out. I ride sleds alot, so the thigh pocket is not a safe place for a fragile $400 life saving device.
Shit like this is all I think about. I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm still alive ...

havent they invented an app to replace the tranny yet ...

[summit]

Thigh pockets are out. No bellowed / cargo pockets. These could be ripped and out falls thebeacon.

The recommendation is interior waist or bib pockets. This means there is no material to snag. The lanyard is the backup. The only way to lose the beacon is by getting pantsed. Sure, packs are an easy thing to lever off. Gloves come off in a violent fall with no avalanche, but it is hard to lose your pants. The data show nobody has been pantsed by a slide and survived the trauma. Seriously.

Swear I had a whole thread about finding the right pants at some point...

[Jonathan S.]

funniest thing in this thread is that JS would comment on where Joe Stock carries his beacon.

We were constantly busting on each other for days on end.
I think he got the best line though when, critiquing my habit of "unprofessionally" carrying all sorts of gear lashed to the outside of my pack, he said I looked like "a new REI employee who just got his first proform."

[Jonathan S.]

havent they invented an app to replace the tranny yet ...

Stay far away from those apps that claim to be useful for locating a buried avalanche victim!

My assessment:
http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/PhoneApps.asp

... and even more details if you're not already convinced:
http://www.avalanche.ca/cac/avalanch...ch-apps-review

[coldfeet]

I ran a bunch of tests on this today (with explanations in the captions at top right):
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...65260504180769
... which simulate quite accurately were I to combine my occasional (yet fortunately separate) habits of carrying in a pocket my beacon and a zip lock bag of Gu packets.

There's one way to test your conclusion that the problem is the packet foil and not the actual Gu in the packets. (Setting aside for the moment that you must be right it's the foil.) Since the Nathan's hot dog eating contest was just 2 days ago, we can draw inspiration from that. You have to set up a beacon test as in the photos, or for a better simulation, with the beacon and the Gu packets in an actual pants pocket. Then, to insure that none of the other conditions change, you immediately eat all dozen Gus at once, put the foils back in the bag and the bag over the beacon, and repeat the test. Please be sure to video this.

[Jonathan S.]

I suspect that about five or so packets would have the same effect on the signal degradation.
But either way, oh my, multiple Gu packet consumption in rapid succession, think of the available energy!

Anyway, Gu has confirmed that the packet film is polyester + aluminum, so that would seem to explain it.
(I wonder if the packing for completing Gu packets also has aluminum?)

[XXX-er]

think of the stomach, I found the Hammer gels were pretty benign on the gut in an ultra long distance event but all the energy gel packs are foil

[angrysasquatch]

From what I remember, Cliff Shots are more a plastic/wax paper thing.

[bigAK]

This thread is fucking disgusting. Also, retardo racer types can consider this PSA: we'll still be awed by your athletic achievements even if your time is 1 sec slower for picking up your spent syrup package litter...