Permethrin-treated clothing

**El Chupacabra** · 07-01-2014, 03:34 PM

Anyone here use permethrin-treated clothing? Does it work to keep mosquitoes off?

Seems like it might be a little less toxic than spraying DEET all over me.

Hugh Conway · 07-01-2014, 04:10 PM

I got a refund from ExOfficio (kudo's to them for that) because mosquito's bit me straight through their "BugsAway" permethrin treated clothing. Perhaps not representative, I don't know, I stick to things woven/laminated so the bugs won't get through now.

edit: to the recommendation about DEET below, test clothing/whatever first, DEET will melt the shit out of some plastics.

**TAFKALVS** · 07-01-2014, 04:18 PM

Better off with really lightweight tightly woven softshell. Permethrin treatment wears off over time and with washing. I normally just treat the exterior of my clothes with strong deet and it seems to work fine unless the bugs are really hungry.

**GeezerSteve** · 07-01-2014, 04:27 PM

Permethrin-treated clothing is 100X superior to DEET. No contest. Not even close. It's a game changer. Life in the mountains during mossie, black fly, deer fly, noseeum, etc. season is way better than before. No more DEET stinking and dissolving clothing, except a bit on the back o' the hands if it's really bad. It's brutal watching our buds with untreated garments with their bottles of DEET suffer while we are completely unmolested by bugs. Most of those poor bastards are now permethrin converts.

DIY treatment is the way to go, allows you to refresh every year or two for pennies, works as well or better than the factory-treated stuff. Avoid the absurdly expensive Sawyer spray stuff. We use DIY-treated shirts, cape hats, pants and camp sox at peak o' the hatch. For DIY stuff, I start with 10% agricultural permethrin solution, cut it with 9 parts water to get 1% solution, put in pump spray bottle and spray on clean clothing outdoors or well-ventilated area. Get fabric wetted out for best results. (Sawyer ripoff spray is 0.5%; military uses 1.5%, so I hear). Wear rubber gloves and bandana over mouth and nose when spraying. Allow to air dry. Keep liquid permethrin away from cats. Use little or no detergent when washing, i.e., hand rinse or run through washer with no detergent. If you insist on using detergent (not necessary cuz it's hiking/climbing clothing), refresh your garments more often.

Our DIY-treated garments have est. 100 days on them and still very effectively repel bugs, i.e., way the fuck better than liberally applied DEET and without the stink and damage. I'll likely refresh our stuff before high route season this year.

10% permethrin solution available from farm supply stores or on Amazon. I've treated est. 25 garments with one $12 bottle (cut with water 9:1) and have enough to refresh all our stuff for this summer. 36.8% ag solution is also available, which is what I'll likely get when my current batch runs out. I'll cut it to 1% or so cuz that has worked very well.

**skimaxpower** · 07-01-2014, 04:32 PM

Hiked the CDT with Ex officio Bug-Off pants. Certainly not perfect, but tight weave pants plus the coating helped a lot.

I hear that it only lasts about 10 washings or so. But that's like four months of everyday wear for a long distance hiker!

**GeezerSteve** · 07-01-2014, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by skimaxpower

I hear that it only lasts about 10 washings or so.

You heard wrong unless the info was from someone using too much detergent. Best to not use detergent. See above. We started with Ex Officio shirts and they worked great 100 or so days before I refreshed them, and our DIY stuff seems to last as long.

Anyway, it doesn't matter cuz it's super cheap to mix your own DIY solution and refresh however often you want. See above.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 07-01-2014, 06:41 PM

Move somewhere drier

**GeezerSteve** · 07-01-2014, 07:46 PM

Moving to a place with less snow, thus less snowmelt, thus fewer bugs is the answer to all of life's problems?

Hugh Conway · 07-01-2014, 07:50 PM

Oh goody, it's a big steve backpacking jihadist appearance. I'd say <10 washings, but I'm not an awesome laundress. Or maybe I like clean cloths that don't smell like uber-smug seattleite.

< shrug > it's one of those things that seems to have faithful acolytes and a bunch of other people wondering. Oh well.

**El Chupacabra** · 07-01-2014, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

Move somewhere drier

I live in high desert. It was 6% humidity here today.

Steve - I hadn't considered DIY treatment of clothing. What do you soak the clothes in - just use a tub? Wash afterwards, before wearing?

**tuco** · 07-01-2014, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Steve - I hadn't considered DIY treatment of clothing. What do you soak the clothes in - just use a tub? Wash afterwards, before wearing?

Originally Posted by Big Steve

put in pump spray bottle and spray on clean clothing outdoors or well-ventilated area. Get fabric wetted out for best results. (Sawyer ripoff spray is 0.5%; military uses 1.5%, so I hear). Wear rubber gloves and bandana over mouth and nose when spraying. Allow to air dry. Keep liquid permethrin away from cats. Use little or no detergent when washing, i.e., hand rinse or run through washer with no detergent. If you insist on using detergent (not necessary cuz it's hiking/climbing clothing), refresh your garments more often.

........

**El Chupacabra** · 07-01-2014, 08:09 PM

Oops. Reading comprehension fail.

**couloirman** · 07-01-2014, 08:26 PM

I spent an entire month hiking every day on Block Island this June through deep grass and wore ExOfficio Bugs Away pants the whole time. The friends I was hiking with had 8 or 9 tick bites and brushed countless others off themselves in the car after our hikes. I did not see a single tick on me the whole trip. Not sure how well it works for mosquitoes, but I am a believer when it comes to permethrin as a tick repellant. Will definitely start treating some of my other outdoor gear.

**GeezerSteve** · 07-01-2014, 10:33 PM

FTR, permethrin-treated clothing has been used by the military in malaria regions for a couple decades. Numerous controlled studies consistently confirm its effectiveness for malaria prevention. Sounds like Hugh got a shirt that wasn't sprayed right. Or it's just Hugh hatin' agin. Ho hum harmless. May Hugh find peace someday.

Ex Officio claims that its Bugs Away will withstand 70 washings. I dunno, and it doesn't matter cuz DIY refreshing is ubercheap and easy. I just diluted another batch, gonna refresh our outfits before the weekend glacier ski tour. Haven't bought DEET for 3+ years.

No need to wash before use. Just let it dry on a clothes line in the sun after spraying. Takes an hour or so. Per EPA, it's harmless after it's dried.

There's a guy on NWHikers who soaks, but that's not necessary because spraying works fine.

Surprised not to hear of more mags who have tried it. Ex Officio sells tons of the shit to trust fund baby fly fishermen and ugly American third world travelers. I'm too cheap, sans trust fund, self-funded retirement and self-reliant. And DIY is so damn easy.

IME, the only doubters are those who haven't actually tried it. Kinda like Rog hatin' rocker tips, etc.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 07-02-2014, 12:06 AM

Ha Chup, I should have known, I think I mailed you something once. Hehehe

**Mofro261** · 07-02-2014, 12:28 AM

Permethrin DIY spray on has worked well for me and made a big difference for Mrs. M. whom the bugs love. But 100 washes? Really? I suppose it's possible but damn that's a lot of washes for camp clothing, like 5+ yrs worth. Seems like sprayed socks don't last that long. I usually give stuff a seasonal re-fresh each year / every other year,but maybe that's overkill. I think the pre-treated ex-officio stuff says ~30-35 washes. But either pre-tx or DIY coating, the bugs are better than spraying DEET on the clothes, but can still be a nuisance with uncovered skin on the hands and face.

**GeezerSteve** · 07-02-2014, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mofro261

But 100 washes?

Did someone say 100 washes? I said 100 days, so maybe 20-25?? rinses and 5 or fewer washings with a few drops of detergent. ETA: Just refreshed my stuff for pennies, thus a moot issue.

**samthaman** · 07-02-2014, 09:44 AM

Wherever you get it and however you apply it, just be careful during the application process, permethrin is some nasty stuff but it does indeed work and is probably better for you than repeatedly applying deet directly to the skin.

**GeezerSteve** · 07-02-2014, 10:07 AM

I did oodles of research before I first did my DIY spray treatments. Here is a webpage with links to info re permethrin-treated clothing, including links to EPA and IPSC. As a general observation, the research indicates that permethrin liquid solution should be handled with care (use a mask and rubber gloves), but that it represents a low hazard risk after it dries on the clothing because permethrin bonds very well to fabric and is poorly absorbed by human skin. The literature warns that liquid permethrin can be fatal to cats, so I keep the cat indoors when I spray. The research also indicates that permethrin-treated clothing is not a threat to cats, but as a precaution we keep our bug garments away from the cat.

Most of us have been exposed to permethrin in concentrations far greater than the permethrin-treated garments present. Permethrin is routinely used in relatively large amounts and higher concentrations for agricultural, commercial and medical use, e.g., sheep dip, horse wash, crop spray, pest control, timber treatment, pet wash, pet collars, scabies cream, head lice wash, third world malaria prevention, etc., etc. For example, a termite control company will spray gallons of permethrin solution around the base of house to kill/prevent termite infestation, and livestock farmers routinely use large volumes of permethrin solutions -- e.g., a bottle of 36.8% solution cut with buckets of water -- as a livestock dip or wash.

**samthaman** · 07-02-2014, 10:28 AM

i think we're trying to say the same thing, you just said it much more clearly. Be careful when the chemical is aerosolized or in liquid form. Once it dries, I think it's probably safer than most alternatives.

**El Chupacabra** · 07-02-2014, 10:29 AM

Steve - is this what you use? (and then dilute to a 1% formula)

http://www.amazon.com/Martins-Permet...rds=permethrin

**GeezerSteve** · 07-02-2014, 10:34 AM

Yeah, that looks like what I have, although a different brand. It likely all comes from the same chemical plant. Farmers, timbermen and pest controllers buy the stuff by the gallon. I just refreshed my bug wardrobe this morning -- it's drying on the clothes line -- and will refresh Anita's stuff this evening. I still have a wee bit of the 10% solution, which I bought 2 or 3 years ago. When it runs out, I'll likely get the 36.8% solution, which should last years.

Right, Sam. I was responding to your comment that "permethrin is some nasty stuff." That should be qualified "permethrin in liquid solution is nasty stuff." As you note, per the research once dried on clothing the risk presented is insignificant.