BME - snowmaas, durango, keystone, moab, crested butte

**Hott Butt Mud** · 06-28-2014, 03:01 PM

Lindahl dude coming to racing thread posting about how he's too cool for racing = classic.

I don't know about you guys, but I just ride the BME stages the day after the race and Strava them for free. Underground Enduro is where it's at bros!

**joetron** · 06-28-2014, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud

Lindahl dude coming to racing thread posting about how he's too cool for racing = classic.

I don't know about you guys, but I just ride the BME stages the day after the race and Strava them for free. Underground Enduro is where it's at bros!

I concur.

Also, Strava powered Underground Night Enduro is where it's really at.

**westoxified** · 06-28-2014, 05:15 PM

The only draw to Enduro would be the ability to rally something at race-pace without concern for others on the trail...oh wait that's DH racing. Shit.

**beaterdit** · 06-28-2014, 09:48 PM

Holy shit, Durango day one was rugged as fuck. Haven't ridden these trails in prolly ten years so basically riding blind, never ridden them at race pace. Lots of carnage today. Nate Hills got edged out by JHK by 30 secs.

Stoked for tomorrow, hopefully hang on to my second place from today. Seems like making it through today was the crux for sure. Lots o DNFs and REALLY extended times as people walked out.

**raisingarizona13** · 06-29-2014, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by beaterdit

Holy shit, Durango day one was rugged as fuck. Haven't ridden these trails in prolly ten years so basically riding blind, never ridden them at race pace. Lots of carnage today. Nate Hills got edged out by JHK by 30 secs.

Stoked for tomorrow, hopefully hang on to my second place from today. Seems like making it through today was the crux for sure. Lots o DNFs and REALLY extended times as people walked out.

Way to go man! Keep killing it!

**WaistDeepGroomers** · 06-29-2014, 11:15 AM

Right on beaterdit! Rowdy shit.

Strava's cool and all, but phone apps don't really push me like having the skin in the game paying for an entry fee. But entry fees are almost entirely why I don't got out of my way to do any of these races in the first place. However, I love the idea of a Strava night enduro underground race; nobody on the trail, no need for timing infrastructure (unless you want to be all accurate and shit), and riding at night is fucking awesome. Always made my local trails back East way more exhilarating. Out here in JH I get a little spooked about rallying around some corner and seeing two eyes staring at me... bear? dear? fucking cougar? ahhhh!

As far as complaints about pedaling are concerned, obviously enduro occupies this big gray area between full-face dual-crown DH rowdy as fuck racing and all-about-the-uphill lycra XC crowd, and various races will split the middle between those two extremes in different ways. I think the Euros aim for no more than 10-15% uphill in their races, which at least give you something of a standard to base your assumptions off of. I'm cool with pedaling, it just would be cool if that was weighed evenly against tech riding performance, maybe something like the points system JJ mentioned. Then your ability to handle that quick, gnarly line through a rock garden, maybe gaining you 1/2 a second, would matter as much as being able to pedal super hard for a hundred yards. Again, the more its about fitness, the less appealing it is to that average rider who gets out a few times a week but isn't setting training goals for an XC race/triathalon/tuff mudder/marathon/etc. You know, ME. It's all about MEEEE!

**flatlander#2** · 06-30-2014, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Ryan Dunfee

being able to pedal super hard for a hundred yards. Again, the more its about fitness, the less appealing

Wow, super rad.

**beaterdit** · 06-30-2014, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ryan Dunfee

Right on beaterdit! Rowdy shit.

Strava's cool and all, but phone apps don't really push me like having the skin in the game paying for an entry fee. But entry fees are almost entirely why I don't got out of my way to do any of these races in the first place. However, I love the idea of a Strava night enduro underground race; nobody on the trail, no need for timing infrastructure (unless you want to be all accurate and shit), and riding at night is fucking awesome. Always made my local trails back East way more exhilarating. Out here in JH I get a little spooked about rallying around some corner and seeing two eyes staring at me... bear? dear? fucking cougar? ahhhh!

As far as complaints about pedaling are concerned, obviously enduro occupies this big gray area between full-face dual-crown DH rowdy as fuck racing and all-about-the-uphill lycra XC crowd, and various races will split the middle between those two extremes in different ways. I think the Euros aim for no more than 10-15% uphill in their races, which at least give you something of a standard to base your assumptions off of. I'm cool with pedaling, it just would be cool if that was weighed evenly against tech riding performance, maybe something like the points system JJ mentioned. Then your ability to handle that quick, gnarly line through a rock garden, maybe gaining you 1/2 a second, would matter as much as being able to pedal super hard for a hundred yards. Again, the more its about fitness, the less appealing it is to that average rider who gets out a few times a week but isn't setting training goals for an XC race/triathalon/tuff mudder/marathon/etc. You know, ME. It's all about MEEEE!

Thing is Ryan, this is racing, and racing at a high level. There's no beginner or even 'sport' class, and everyone races on the big-boy course. You're average rec rider who gets out a few times a week and avoids hills isn't that fit, and isn't riding at a high level period, and won't be doing well in any higher end race, up or down. Local level and, as much as I hate to say it, USAC races are actually a better venue for your lower end riders.

At any rate, yesterday was much easier than day 1 Kennebec down, couldn't close my gap on first but put another minute into the third place guy and took a category stage win on 3 (half ridge->Snake Charmer). Held on for second in Masters in the end. Pretty happy. Still in shock over how rugged and long the day 1 stages were, really awesome racing, ragged edge for me for sure. These races are a hoot.

**Anospa** · 06-30-2014, 12:25 PM

Yeah, at the end of the day, it is racing. Going as fast as you can on the course is going to take everything. Hell, watch some of the world cup DH races, PLENTY of pedaling going on on some courses.

**Lindahl** · 06-30-2014, 12:44 PM

Watching people race on a DH track is fun. Watching people race on the Rim Trail is not. There's such a thing as too much pedaling and not enough rad. Soooo many good trails out there, don't pick the boring XC ones. Heard Durango course is pretty sweet though. Been seeing some good stuff coming outa there.

Finstah · 06-30-2014, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Watching people race on a DH track is fun. Watching people race on the Rim Trail is not. There's such a thing as too much pedaling and not enough rad. Soooo many good trails out there, don't pick the boring XC ones. Heard Durango course is pretty sweet though. Been seeing some good stuff coming outa there.

Gotta ask. With you apparent disdain for all but the gnarliest and roughest mtb tracks, what is it that keeps you claiming Breck as your home ski hill? Surely by this point you would have moved on to Jackson, Squaw, or that full time guiding gig you've been offered numerous times in AK. Or is it that you just mtb at a much higher level than you ski?

**Lindahl** · 06-30-2014, 07:40 PM

I like flowy and non-rocky-mess on the MTB too, but its just not as fun to watch or see photos of, for me. Its the spectator aspect. Kinda like watching ski racing versus a freeride contest.

As for skiing, job opportunities aren't that good at Squaw or Jackson, otherwise I'd consider either of those (as well as Montana, Crested Butte and a ton of other places). I need to be somewhat close to a big city, as my job requires me to put in some face time a couple days a week at an office. My lifestyle would have to change drastically to move to a skibum town. I could move back to WA, but I can't deal with the dreary weather. SLC has always interested me, but I have it pretty damn good out here right now and I like beer. In another 5-10 years, I'll be doing the consulting gig and working 6-9 months a year, so I'll get to travel around, then, I guess.

That said, I don't ski Breck much, its mostly a place to stay. I'm usually in the sidecountry where I have that shit pretty dialed in terms of where I like to ski. Skiing 3-4 days a week, there's more cliffs than I can hit per storm cycle, and I rarely have to deal with tracks. Nothing super steep till late spring (avys), but I'm pretty damn happy with powder, trees and cliffs.

Finstah · 06-30-2014, 07:54 PM

Just curious. I have to admit, it does seem like the people shitting on the U.S. enduro courses on this forum are simply afraid to put their money where there mouths are, and the ones who actually enter these things seem to always have a really good time while also generally being thoroughly challenged.

Weird stuff. But, hitting cliffs with flat landings at Breck is no doubt redonkulous, and it sounds like you know about as much about the beer situation in SLC as you do about Enduro racing...

P.S. - Did I read that right? You find high level ski racing boring too?! Personally I'd much rather watch a world cup skier attack a Super G course than some patchy web cast of a bunch of hacks butchering the qualifier venue of some 3 star event, but that's just me...

**Lindahl** · 06-30-2014, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Finstah

Just curious. I have to admit, it does seem like the people shitting on the U.S. enduro courses on this forum are simply afraid to put their money where there mouths are, and the ones who actually enter these things seem to always have a really good time while also generally being thoroughly challenged.

Weird stuff. But, hitting cliffs with flat landings at Breck is no doubt redonkulous, and it sounds like you know about as much about the beer situation in SLC as you do about Enduro racing...

Yeah, I don't know anything about the beer scene in SLC, only reguritating what I've heard from others. However, about half the time I ride, its with people who race in the BME, and I've gone to a few to hang out with friends and cheer them on, so I have a pretty good idea of what that scene looks like. A couple of them are starting to get burned out and would rather just ride for fun. Knowing myself, I'd be right there with them after trying it a single season (or even just half a season). The whole race thing isn't my cup of tea.

EDIT: And yes, I find high level ski racing relatively boring to watch and understand that plenty of other people don't. I'd probably watch ski racing over low-star freeride qualifiers, but I'd prefer to watch neither. Don't take it so personally. Its a preference thing.

Finstah · 06-30-2014, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

The whole race thing isn't my cup of tea...

Fair enough. That is something I can respect and relate to. Maybe this thread isn't for you then also...

**skiergirl** · 06-30-2014, 10:43 PM

Apologies for interrupting the diatribe.

Durango was fun. It absolutely kicked my ass.

Raced Stage 1 blind and broke my toe w a pedal strike on the same rock that took out about 6 other riders. Lots of mechanicals and diggers on that stage.
I loved the balance of stage 2 and was happy I rode it a month ago. Also props to BME for closing the CO Trail. Word is they were in the red on this race and it won't happen again.
Stage 3 should have been my strongest, and it was my weakest. Poor choices on line selection and forgetting that flat, chundery pedal section ate some time, as did seeing a friend sitting mid-trail with a head injury (support on hand). I really like that trail.
Stage 4 was long and fun until I could see off the plateau and was pissed that I STILL wasn't at the river 5 mins later.

Not an XC racer, I had fun, so did my other non-XC racer friends. I do like the idea of the points per stage to balance out the time.

I was initially pissed they combined the 19-29 and 30-39 groups, but from a women's perspective that was the largest field (17) I've raced, DH or Enduro, it pushed me.

Nice work Beaterdit.

**beaterdit** · 07-01-2014, 08:16 AM

Nice job! Did you really break your toe? That sucks! I saw some shoes ripped open from that rock and one guy ripped the skin off the front of his toe on it. I guess I'm lucky, I never even noticed it. Man what a fun race, day one really pushed me more than any other race I've ever done. It really demanded everything of you, 100% focus, 100% gas, 100% dialed on the bike setup, and keeping it in one piece.

**skiergirl** · 07-01-2014, 11:08 AM

Yeah, just a second toe, so it'll be fine. Was in 5.10s on flats, I would've gone flying if I'd been clipless. Surprised the crank and pedal were okay. Think it's where Sparky bashed her face the first stage. Rough race. Sprained my MCL at the end of stage 4 too, but it's coming around okay.

Prolly my only BME this year. Will do the Steamboat Enduro-X bc it's local and I'm trying to drag more ladies.

Speaking of, if any of you CO guys have lady friends that are interested in Enduro, but have been hesitant, pm me. We are trying to put together a lady pre-ride clinic for the day before the Steamboat races.

**Lindahl** · 07-01-2014, 12:06 PM

Is that you K? Saw that gnarly photo on fb.

**beaterdit** · 07-02-2014, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by skiergirl

Yeah, just a second toe, so it'll be fine. Was in 5.10s on flats, I would've gone flying if I'd been clipless. Surprised the crank and pedal were okay. Think it's where Sparky bashed her face the first stage. Rough race. Sprained my MCL at the end of stage 4 too, but it's coming around okay.

Prolly my only BME this year. Will do the Steamboat Enduro-X bc it's local and I'm trying to drag more ladies.

Speaking of, if any of you CO guys have lady friends that are interested in Enduro, but have been hesitant, pm me. We are trying to put together a lady pre-ride clinic for the day before the Steamboat races.

Damn, sorry to hear that, hope you heal up OK. I think Sparky went down on 3, on the slickrock section. That was a really tough race!

**JeffreyJim** · 07-02-2014, 11:27 AM

Any thoughts on driving down from Jackson to Keystone? I'd love to race but a bit intimidated by only having one day of practice (friday)...thoughts?

**beaterdit** · 07-02-2014, 12:05 PM

Dunno, seems to be more DH oriented, more gnar, jumps, drops, which for me means I wanna check it out first. They'll put up the stages a few days in advance so you could plan on hitting up the gnarlier stages and hit the easier ones blind. Worked for me in Snowmass but Keystone is a different ballgame.

**Lindahl** · 07-02-2014, 01:31 PM

Keystone's rough on the body at speed, no other way about it. I have to tape my hands in the early season. Takes me a while before I can (want) do a top to bottom run without stopping, too. They don't groom it like Winter Park.

None of the mandatory stuff on the blacks is that gnarly except maybe the boulder field on punk rock (probably faster to run through it!) and the boulder steps on wild thing. I doubt they'd throw a double black into the race, but I think wild thing was in it last year.

**joetron** · 07-02-2014, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by JeffreyJim

Any thoughts on driving down from Jackson to Keystone? I'd love to race but a bit intimidated by only having one day of practice (friday)...thoughts?

You've ridden Keystone a bunch in the past though, right? Given their dedication to trail maintenance there, I'd say you'll do just fine because nothing has changed except some of the rocks probably grew a bit and there are probably a few more berms, short and bumpy, but more berms nonetheless. Bring big tires, an extra r. wheel, some arnica gel and ibuprofen....you'll crush it.

**simple** · 07-02-2014, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by beaterdit

Nah, pedaling AND bike handling wins every time. I don't know if you've ever done one of these but to be competitive, you have to be on the pedals 100% of the time. The Euro courses, while prolly gnarlier than ours, are still won on the pedals. Even DH races are won on the pedals anymore. I placed the same in every stage but one, 5th, even all the real pedally ones. Only time I got back was stage 1, where I got slightly lost.

I just wish there was more gnar because I like it.

Wassup Sam? I'm the guy that got 4th at Snowmass. Great job at Durango! Super close race again. Wish i made it out there. You gonna do the whole series? I'm out until CB. That one is going to be a beast. 3k of climbing per day. Real mountain biking.