"For Dummies" crud ski

[PlayItLeo]

Just buy those gold Buddha goats that are up in gear swap for $60 and call it good. If you want Turbos, add the slightest amount of garage rocker to the goats (just enough to move the contact points in about 15-20 cms), and voila, you've got some Turbos.

[tuco]

Fatypus D-Sender looks like it would fit the bill.

[wooley12]

I am loving my Cham HM97. Turny, floaty, edgy. Rolls over soft and hard crud but a low speed head on with avy debris gave me a double eject. As it should have.

[jerr]

I've found the cochise is pretty damn good in crud. Needs lots of angulation though.

[Gaperious Basterd]

Does the Vagabond perform in crud?

I'm thinking about not getting any 100+ skis, and hoping my Bonafide will do everything the Brahma sucked at, but let me do things the Cochise couldn't*

*wind-scoured Tower 3 chute... Brahmas? No problem (actually relatively simple). Cochise? Hell no. I must say, though, the Cochise let me ski slopped-up steeps on Moran Face and Saratoga Bowl with ease. They were heavy as hell, but were easy to ski in crud.

Gotamas were alright (skied them in epic Feb storm in CO this year). However, they sucked in crud. They were stupid-easy in powdery bumps at the Jane. They were not enough for two feet of untracked snow off Panoramic Express. I wonder how they'd perform in wet sloppy crud.

[BushwackerinPA]

the vagabon d is ok in crud but the capo is quit honestly not that hard to ski on.

I mean I apparently suck and thought the 193 was great(silly easy compared to my 185 cochises) , I am sure people who suck worse than me could use a smaller size and be happy on either. .

[Gaperious Basterd]

The El Capo looks interesting.

My weight limit (per ski) for having manageable swingweight would probably be ~2100 g, but really 2000 g.

Skis with twin tips and/or symmetrical rocker are turning me off b/c I never go backwards and feel they were designed as such.


Ok, so for me, my various vacations to the Rockies demystify the "real-world" conditions for which I will need (a different) ski: (1,2,4, and 6 are most relevant).

1. Wet late-April mank on the steeps at Snowbird. My E98's sank. Fatigue, however played a role. Over on the backside, in prior-to-noon firm crud on the short bowl that runs out onto a flat (where you can glide to a stop), I sliced and diced like nobody's business on these skis, and had no problems.

2. Endless powder at the Jane (giant multi-day storm in early-mid Feb this year), in steep tree-and-bump runs (like Sluice Box), neither the Gotama nor the Brahma seemed to work very well. Given the giant bumps covered in powder, it's almost like I needed a very short junior-sized powder ski, and/or an ultra-light mid-fat. Fatigue was also a factor here, but even if it wasn't the skis still didn't seem right.

3. Steep, hydrated May-slush at the Basin.... Bushwackers were just fine. Low swingweight... they got me down without issue. Although, I had to slow things way the hell down. However, on a re-frozen Montezuma bowl, the Bushwackers got bucked around like a contestant in ABC's "Wipeout."

4. Unexpected 12" at Snowmass... again, E98's... they weren't the right ski. Then, later in the day (fatigue played a factor) on a cruddy run, it was horrible.

5. When absolutely hauling-ass on anything... the Cochise felt "greasy." Also, they were not maneuverable enough, and straight-up dangerous, to be hauling ass on any populated run. The Brahma's allow me to stay in control and stop on a figurative-dime.

6. Powder-to-wet-mank at Jackson (Moran Face, Saratoga Bowl, Hobacks, Lower Faces), Fatigue was a huge factor, and 185 Cochise was fine if it weren't for fatigue.

[ghosthop]

I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but from your last post it sounds like you should be less concerned about finding a ski thats going to make you ski better and simply work on getting in better shape so that you can ski better.

I skied refrozen last weekend on Montezuma and there aren't a lot of skis that would have made early AM conditions ski well.

[PNWbrit]

Fatigue, however played a role..... Fatigue was also a factor here,......(fatigue played a factor)......Fatigue was a huge factor......was fine if it weren't for fatigue.

Have you considered going gluten free?

[Beyond]

Have you considered going gluten free?

Seriously. Hiking and bicycling right about now may save you money in October. But if you're committed to new crud skis, think about how many different conditions you also want to slay with the same sticks: Mank, slush, refrozen, bottomless, trees, bumps. Pretty much covers the list except for sheet ice. I've owned the 185 Cochise, great for smashing crud or carving rough groomers, but beefy, stiff, weighs something like 4300 g, not the most satisfying solution to light powder or bumps in trees. Conversely, a lighter, softer ski like the Soul 7 will dance around those bumps and trees, but get knocked sideways in heavy chop or refrozen at speed. Just physics.

The El Capo murders your own weight criteria; it's 2500 g per ski at 185. If you have the $$, you might take a look at the Stockli Stormrider 107. Weighs 1980 g at 183. If you don't have the $$, the Scout might be your ticket. Think they come in about 2000-2100 at 185. I know some very good skiers who like both. And if you truly don't want to go over 100+, thus don't prioritize float, the Bonafide already solves your problems...

[Skiwurrel]

I would say protest or renegade for conditions 1-6, you need funky skis for wet mank and windblown.

[Gaperious Basterd]

I appreciate the advice. If I'm so moved, I would re-consider the Cochise in a 177, or (more likely) do the Scout in 185. But more than likely I'm going to ski the Bonafide as my west/"wide" ski, and leave it at that. If I sink, so be it. I have a 180 cm single ski bag, and I'm gonna leave it at squeezing the 180 Bonafides in there for trips to the West, and similarly take the 180 Brahma anywhere East. And then focus on skiing and not ski choice. Maybe I'll pick up a SR107 if I win the Rolling Cash 5 one of these days...

The Blister reviews of the Scout turned me off, but at the same time--given those reviewers preferences for skis I've tried (and hate)--maybe I'd actually like the Scout.

[Micol]

lhasa pows blow thru it
billy goats close 2nd

[whippersnapper]

EDIT: This is for wooley12.

To ski slowly well, you need to spend time skiing fast. You're worried about going too fast in that crud, which just exposes all your worst habits mentioned above. Go faster, you'll ski better and then will know what to do when you ski slow. Crud rewards speed, until it eats you, so take advantage of it.

[mfa81]

anybody with ski time on both Cochise and Vicik? I was pretty dead set on the cochise but started to wonder about seeing my new addition to the quiver BG... just looks bomb proof! Now I'm considering finding a 13/14 Vicik but I'm interested in hearing a little bit about how the Vicik would compare to the Cochise, I've had my fair share of demo time in a 177 Cochise (me 5'5" / 150ish) my BG is 176 which is replacing a rocker2 115 178. Also have a P98 172 and a Praxis SNS 167. Have considered the freeride as well but was wishing for a longer turn radius, current considering

13/14 Vicik 176 (would that be too big giving the BG is 176 as well? any idea how the size would compare to the cochise 177?)
13/14 Jeffrey 176/171 (since I wonder if I will miss having something more playful)

still considering the 177 Cochise as well.

crud is the priority here! daily driver crud buster... will be using SND for grommers with the wife and the P98 as my rock skis for early season and the BG when there is any fresh!

[Banh Mi]

I own a 185 cochise, and used to own a 2013 186 vicik. I really enjoyed the vicik for a while, and still regret selling them, But they are not nearly as "for dummies" as the cochise. The cochise are my favorite ski as of yet, as they can handle the same speed as the vicik, yet are much more forgiving and playful. Moguls and general jibbin around off stuff is much more comfortable on the cochise. Even in crud, its just a playground when you have a bit of metal in your skis.

Although the cochise has metal, the vicik was a burlier ski with that flat tail. It took more skier input than the cochise, and is really an expert ski. The vicik had some pop to it due to the bamboo, but overall was a damp very hard charger. No speed limit, rip hardpack like a boss. Crud was fun too, but not like the cochise.

The cochise has the perfect mass, flex, and rocker profile to just kill it everywhere. I got a set of minty katanas ready for next season, im addicted to full rocker w/ metal. I have a feeling the katanas will be my new favorite, as the cochise is a little too playful sometimes. Good for people just getting into off piste advanced skiing.

[mfa81]

I own a 185 cochise, and used to own a 2013 186 vicik. I really enjoyed the vicik for a while, and still regret selling them, But they are not nearly as "for dummies" as the cochise. The cochise are my favorite ski as of yet, as they can handle the same speed as the vicik, yet are much more forgiving and playful. Moguls and general jibbin around off stuff is much more comfortable on the cochise. Even in crud, its just a playground when you have a bit of metal in your skis.

Although the cochise has metal, the vicik was a burlier ski with that flat tail. It took more skier input than the cochise, and is really an expert ski. The vicik had some pop to it due to the bamboo, but overall was a damp very hard charger. No speed limit, rip hardpack like a boss. Crud was fun too, but not like the cochise.

The cochise has the perfect mass, flex, and rocker profile to just kill it everywhere. I got a set of minty katanas ready for next season, im addicted to full rocker w/ metal. I have a feeling the katanas will be my new favorite, as the cochise is a little too playful sometimes. Good for people just getting into off piste advanced skiing.

thanks, that was helpful!

[The SnowShow]

Stupid question, but would you say chopped up powder (what you basically have in the afternoon of a powder day, unless it's dumping all day) falls under the term crud?

[shroom]

does Hugh shit in the woods?

[~mikey b]

No. Hugh shits in the 3rd floor loo...

[steved]

Wooley.....
Before you break a femur...dump the A-Frame!

[TahoeJ]

anybody with ski time on both Cochise and Vicik? I was pretty dead set on the cochise but started to wonder about seeing my new addition to the quiver BG... just looks bomb proof! Now I'm considering finding a 13/14 Vicik but I'm interested in hearing a little bit about how the Vicik would compare to the Cochise, I've had my fair share of demo time in a 177 Cochise (me 5'5" / 150ish) my BG is 176 which is replacing a rocker2 115 178. Also have a P98 172 and a Praxis SNS 167. Have considered the freeride as well but was wishing for a longer turn radius, current considering

13/14 Vicik 176 (would that be too big giving the BG is 176 as well? any idea how the size would compare to the cochise 177?)
13/14 Jeffrey 176/171 (since I wonder if I will miss having something more playful)

still considering the 177 Cochise as well.

crud is the priority here! daily driver crud buster... will be using SND for grommers with the wife and the P98 as my rock skis for early season and the BG when there is any fresh!

Well... as you know we have similar tastes in skis. I have the Jeffrey's (181) and the Billy Goats (186), and to compliment them I ended up selling my Cochise (185) to get some Bonafides (180) - which are just more versatile for a ski I'm not going to use on a powder day anyway... although they're still decent enough in powder. The Bones are about the same as the Cochise in crud (really good) but better in bumps and just a little bit better edgehold on the firm stuff.

Having said that, I'm still anxious to try the Wren 102's.

[mfa81]

Having said that, I'm still anxious to try the Wren 102's.

I missed Alta demo day this year :-(, but curious to see if the shorter radius is noticiable on the 102

[mntntom]

No love for the Katana? Not sexy anymore?

[ghosthop]

not in production any more, and for the buy a new ski to make me a better skier crowd it has to be the latest and greatest. duh. plus the katana isn't the best for backseat skiing