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  1. #1
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    ccdba cs vs monarch plus rc3 on a tracerT27.5

    Ordering the bike tomorrow. Will all the adjustments on the ccdba cs make my head go buggy, or can I just go with the ccdba factory tune and leave it there.

    Seems like the rockshox monarch plus rc3 is pretty simple: climb, ride, open. I'm 200lbs with gear and like the bike to pop off small hits but still hit the gap jumps coming down the hill. It has the pike up front.

    Thanks for anyone that has any input.

    Mark

  2. #2
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    The whole point of the CCDB is that it doesn't come with a "factory tune". It comes with presets and it is highly recommended to dial in from there. Also, the Monarch isn't some stupid simple shock, sure it has 3 modes, but those are compression only. The CCDB is infinitely more adjustable and there is a reason why people gush over them, but you'll still need to dial in the rebound and suit it to your style and terrain with the Monarch.

    You need to do yourself a favor and really read up on how shocks work and spend several rides, on different types of terrain, playing around with settings to get an intuitive feel for everything. You'll be much happier in the long run and will begin to dial in your suspension differently for various trails, or even various parts of certain trails. Eg, the settings to help you "pop" off small hits are not the same for when you land off a large step down gap. Sure, you can run a compromise setting between the two all the time, but it's so much more fun, and safe in some instances, to have it dialed in properly.

    Ultimately the Monarch will let you think a bit less about everything, however, it also won't have the adjustability of the CC. For me, I'd get the CCDB Air without a second thought, YMMV.
    "The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled you just become a replica of someone else's mind." Chomsky

    "This system make of us slaves. Without dignity. Without depth. No? With a devil in our pocket. This incredible money in our pocket. This money. This shit. This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside." Jodorowsky

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swine View Post
    You'll be much happier in the long run and will begin to dial in your suspension differently for various trails, or even various parts of certain trails.
    This sounds like the opposite of fun to me. But I'm just a noob weekend warrior trying to enjoy my rides without too much hassle.
    However many are in a shit ton.

  4. #4
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    Once you practice a bit it really doesn't take much thought, and it's not like I'm cranking on my settings 5 times on every ride. It's like fly fishing, after some practice you're not thinking about the mechanics of your cast any longer, you're just thinking about your target and the flow of the water.

    Even if you don't want to dial things in for specific trails, the CCDB Air is going to give you a finer and more precise initial setup. From what I can tell, no one, except maybe Avalanche, has a better record of quality and durability.
    "The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled you just become a replica of someone else's mind." Chomsky

    "This system make of us slaves. Without dignity. Without depth. No? With a devil in our pocket. This incredible money in our pocket. This money. This shit. This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside." Jodorowsky

  5. #5
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    I own this bike with the Monarch+ RC3. It's a really good shock, very supportive but still plush and it does have plenty of "pop" for me. It's a good compliment to the Pike up front. Haven't ridden the DB-air but I've got a coil DB on my DH bike. It's rad for sure but I kinda think all the adjustment are a little overkill. It's not that hard to set up but it does take a while and if you don't know what your doing you can make it feel like shit. The online setup guide is pretty good though and if you follow that you're gonna be pretty OK. The online tech reviews of DB-air are all gushing but people I know who've ridden it on their own bikes tend to tell me it's just OK. I don't think it's that much better ten the Monarch to justify the extra cost and weight.

    Maybe take this with a grain of salt because I'm about 50 lbs lighter than you with gear.

    Great bike BTW, congrats. It's pricey but it really is that good, believe the hype.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow, and flying through the air

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    This sounds like the opposite of fun to me. But I'm just a noob weekend warrior trying to enjoy my rides without too much hassle.
    hardtail, or even fully rigid

  7. #7
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    Like Swine said, the CCDB only has one "tune," but it has a massive range of adjustment so that it can work well on lots of different bikes. In my experience, the ideal setup for most riders is within a couple clicks of CC's recommended preset. If you go more than a couple clicks away from recommended, the shock starts to feel horrible in most situations. The huge range of adjustment means that the shock can work on lots of different bikes, but it's not like you're actually using that full range on any given bike.

    The Monarch comes with a few different base tunes, so when you match the one for your bike, it's similar to mounting up the CCDB adjusted to the recommended presets. You lose a bit of the fine tuning that the CCDB offers, but for most people this isn't really the end of the world.

    I don't have any specific experience with that frame, so no comment on how either shock will work for you.

  8. #8
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    Well, I called intense and they said ideally I would own both shocks....the monarch for when I ride smoother stuff and the ccdba for when i got to say Northstar...thats out of the question, haha!

    Just got to decide if I'll actually use any of the the adjustments on the ccdb or if it's just a waste of my time and
    $$

  9. #9
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    The CCDB can be adjusted to cover the range of the Monarch - seems like the do all solution. I'm curious why they prefer the Monarch over "smoother stuff". I prefer a hardtail over "smoother stuff".
    "The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled you just become a replica of someone else's mind." Chomsky

    "This system make of us slaves. Without dignity. Without depth. No? With a devil in our pocket. This incredible money in our pocket. This money. This shit. This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside." Jodorowsky

  10. #10
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    I have a 2nd gen Nomad, and I just slapped a CCDBAcs (how about all that!) on it. So, it's a similar suspension to your new steed. I haven't done any real rides yet, as they are all still snow covered, and I don't have any experience with the RS, but I'll chime in a little bit anyway.

    My first impression on the DBair, is quite positive. With the cs switch on, I can stand and hammer away with little appreciable pedal bob -it is light years better in this respect than what I had on there before. The very small amount of singletrack descending I have done was quite smooth, so not a good test, but the bike felt supportive while also absorbing what impacts there were in a very controlled manner. I will need quite a bit more time with more varied terrain to truly suss out my opinion on the descending capability of the shock, but it's off to a good start, at least.

    The RS sounds promising, and without looking at any numbers, I would guess it's considerably lighter, because the Dbair is quite heavy for an air shock. I remember seeing something about a newer higher volume RS, which is supposed to improve performance, etc. Maybe somebody who knows more could chime in with how they think (or know) the RS will perform on long descents in a bike park.

    The two things that would concern me the most about the RS are degraded downhill performance from heat build up, and whether the climbing function of the RS can match the cs switch on the DBair (their approach just makes a lot of sense to me, and my tiny bit of testing tells me that it works well in reality, as well).

    What's the price difference? It would seem to me there are two ways of looking at this; if the price difference isn't too significant, maybe you should spring for the DBair, as it will probably have a higher resale value if you decide you don't like it? If it's a significant jump in price, maybe you should try the RS, and if you're underwhelmed, swap it out for a DBair?

    I'm done talking out of my ass, and speculating. Good luck, and my guess is that you'll be pleased either way.

  11. #11
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    I went with the ccdba cs. I'll start with the factory recommended settings and take it to northstar for a day so i can make small adjustments over and over on the same run.

    Thanks for the input.


    Mark

  12. #12
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    Let us know how it works out for ya.
    "The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled you just become a replica of someone else's mind." Chomsky

    "This system make of us slaves. Without dignity. Without depth. No? With a devil in our pocket. This incredible money in our pocket. This money. This shit. This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside." Jodorowsky

  13. #13
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    Bet you'll be psyched on it.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow, and flying through the air

  14. #14
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    Haha, order hadn't shipped yet, so i put in a request for the monarch plus rc3. I am obsessive compulsive, so i think my entire ride would be spent thinking "would my bike be acting that much better if i turned one of these 4 knobs a counter click this way or that". I just want to ride up, then flip a switch to downhill when i'm at the top, or trail mode if its a smooth fast jumpy decent.

    Maybe they'll do a demo day out in downieville or something and I can try one out to see what I'm missing.

    Thanks for all the insight. At this point who knows, I may end up with either shock. I've emailed them so many times they're probably sick of me and will charge me the ccdba price for the monarch.

  15. #15
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    FWIW they tweaked the leverage ratio a bit and with that shock, the rear end is much more supportive than my old Tracer. I ride with it open all the time. For jump trails I may flip it to "trail" but to me it feels harsh on rocky stuff that way. YMMV at your weight though.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow, and flying through the air

  16. #16
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    Man beaterdit, 2nd comment about my weight! No, that's rad, I like just leaving a shock somewhere and forgetting about it. I guess the cane creek would've been nice, and maybe their factory tune would match the monarchs, and maybe it is better out of the box, but I would always be wondering "if I tweak this" and that would happen every ride. I guess they're coming out with a new one in may that still has the double barrel internals but no piggyback, so you can use your bottle mount which is nice for short rides. Maybe I'll try one and if I like it I'll go for that one. The way intense described it though was "for northstar (park/dh) go with the cane creek, for trail riding, go with the monarch". Man I sure am doing a lot of speculation for someone that doesn't even have the bike yet. Did they ship with the new debonair monarch, or just the regular monarch?

  17. #17
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    Beating a dead horse here, but are the cane creeks that much more plush or just more adjustable?
    This pink bike article gushes over it on the tracerT27.5, but the guy writing the article is 60 years old and sounds like a tech geek.
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/intense...ewed-2014.html

  18. #18
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    I'm pretty curious here too. I don't really understand how the double chamber shocks work, but looking at them definitely instills confidence.

    Been looking for a good way to improve the single pivot rear end on my wife's Altitude 750. Jibbering masses at MTBR say one of these dope looking shocks will improve it way more than PUSHing a "regular" shock. (PUSH says PUSHing is better because they get air bubbles out!)
    However many are in a shit ton.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    I'm pretty curious here too. I don't really understand how the double chamber shocks work, but looking at them definitely instills confidence.

    Been looking for a good way to improve the single pivot rear end on my wife's Altitude 750. Jibbering masses at MTBR say one of these dope looking shocks will improve it way more than PUSHing a "regular" shock. (PUSH says PUSHing is better because they get air bubbles out!)
    The Altitude is not a single pivot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialist View Post
    They have socalized healthcare up in canada. The whole country is 100% full of pot smoking pro-athlete alcoholics.

  20. #20
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    Mark mine came with the standard air can, not the Debonair. From what I gather you can retrofit the Debonair can onto any late model Monarch plus fro $119(?). You wouldn't get the black stanchion though.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow, and flying through the air

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by iscariot View Post
    The Altitude is not a single pivot.
    Well it looks like a single pivot, and it smells like a single pivot, and it acts like a single pivot. I know they call it Smoovelink or something like that, but I'm not convinced.

    Regardless, it needs something to improve on the CTD Evolution it came with. And that thing can't be PUSH'd. So I'm shopping.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    Well it looks like a single pivot, and it smells like a single pivot, and it acts like a single pivot. I know they call it Smoovelink or something like that, but I'm not convinced.

    Regardless, it needs something to improve on the CTD Evolution it came with. And that thing can't be PUSH'd. So I'm shopping.
    No. Its a Horst link, same as FSR, with the rear pivot slightly above the axle, on the chain stay. Not even close to a single pivot in design or ride.

    Despite CTD sucking, perhaps learning about suspension design, tuning, and riding technique would help, instead of blaming the bike for what is likely pilot error in either set up or riding, or both.
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialist View Post
    They have socalized healthcare up in canada. The whole country is 100% full of pot smoking pro-athlete alcoholics.

  23. #23
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    Touche'

  24. #24
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    Since we're on the topic, I'm debating between a Float X or Monarch+. I decided a couple days ago to go with the X but an opportunity has come up to get a Debonair right away. Had a PUSHed + on my Mojo HD and was really happy with it. From what I know:

    Monarch+ Deb
    - will be $100 cheaper
    - more tuneable with the shims

    Float X
    - more adjustment in Trail setting but I tend to leave open most of the time
    - reports suggest X is a little more supple over small stuff compared to old + but supposedly Debonair should equalize that

    Is there anything to the internals that would make the Fox stand out over the RS? Also, I'm putting this on a Bronson which likes a small can. On the Debonair with its large can would one just be filling it with volume spacers and thus nullifying it's improved suppleness or is there something more to the negative air volume?

  25. #25
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    Rob neither. Get a CCDB Air CS. It's a much better shock.

    The Fox Float X is basically a reworked DHX Air.

    With either the Monarch or the Float X if you want something even slightly outside the adjustment range of the knobs you need to pay someone to crack it open and change the tune. On the CCDB it's just an allen key away.

    Also the Twin Tube design circulates the oil through the circuits and the oil doesn't break down as quickly as the other two. Longer service life between rebuilds.

    I didn't know much about it till I was talking with Drew at Suspension Werx. It's highly recommended by them, and they deal with Fox, Push, BOS, and Avalanche.

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