PM Gear 184 Carbon Bya prototypes (A Tech Talk TR)

[1000-oaks]

^ Good catch Grinch, fixed it.

[Jimi_Lee]

Follow Up Review/Comparison:

Skis: 2013/14 Bya hybrid w/ Dynafits
2012 Ski Logik Howitzer w/ Dynafits

(For more details see my earlier post)

Okay, have a few more days now. A couple in SLC, a couple in J-Hole, and a few around the NW with a variety of conditions from ice, to mushy bumps, steep wind filled powder, dust on crust, and heavy tracked out snow like only the NW can get.

My first few days on this was on 1-2 inches of days old windblown powder at Solitude and Snowbird. SLC was rocking 70 degree temps. It had been warm for a while with no new precip, but sun protected NE facing slopes were brilliant with little metamorphosis and being smoothed over by the wind, but could hold buried and refrozen pinwheels. The Bya's were stable, responsive, energetic, and playful, but required an active and energetic skiing style. They would throw me in the backseat and send me for a ride if I relaxed. You could really see the tips working to break through variable snow and the refrozen chunks. Very rewarding and made me start to worry that I would never use my 110 waist skis ever again.

At Jackson, this thought echoed in my mind for two days. The Howitzer's felt a little dead, too big, not responsive enough. We were breaking into Cody Bowl, Unnamed Bowl, and back into (I think) Granite Bowl. Similar conditions to SLC, but without the death cookies. I missed the Bya's as we would have to race back through icy single track, down through the icy and later soupy moguls on South Hoback, on our way to the tram.

Back in Oregon, we are finally getting some snow. Classic Cascade Concrete. An inch here, and there, with a temperature around 36f. Meadows skied out quick with jarring, choppy leftovers. This was my moment of relief, the Howitzers still served a purpose and the Bya's can't do everything better. There is a place for big and sort-of-dead (read it as damp) skis. The Bya's can handle it, but they required a double down on commitment and energy level to pound through the chop. By lunch I was toast and my knees were starting to complain. After lunch I switched to the 110 Howitzers which surfed better and absorbed and smoothed out the chop.

1 line review: Bya's are a quiver-of-one type ski with a do-it-all-ability, fantastic in many conditions, good in all, but not the best in every situation.

[1000-oaks]

Anyone on the reverse camber version? (Would it happen to be the same rocker profile as the Kusala?)

[splat]

Yes, it is, 1000-oaks.
I didn't do a bcl on that pair but spent yesterday on the reverse camber 183s in the same profile on piste and off and had a blast.
If you want my thinking on it, shoot me your phone number and we can talk. Vets had a pair but preferred the positive camber.

[1000-oaks]

If anyone wants to see how the full-reverse Bya (clamp on the center of the sidecut, 100cm from tip) profile compares to the orange hybrid 2010 183cm Bro Fat (clamp on the line). After much measuring and deliberation, I think I'll mount the Bya's 103cm from tip and see how that works.

[1000-oaks]

Tonight it wasn't easy to drill what was probably one of the last few pair of undrilled PM Gear skis, but it's Spring and these need to be skied. Inserting for Ions at 102.5, since these won't see much hard snow.

Update: Not that the following matters, since there were only a couple pair of full-reverse Bya's ever made....

Spent half a day on the early Kusala-rockered Bya's, which have a lot more rocker than my Kusala's, which I believe are late-model. On thin groomers with Ions, as expected the Bya's are loose as hell - hang on to your ass. (Coming from cambered 184 Mantra's with full-metal Solis though, for comparison.) Any hard snow requires very high edge angles to get the length of the ski in touch with the snow. They will turn at the speed of thought, it just takes a little effort to stay balanced.

In deeper soft snow they are awesome though, and I presume would do very well in the untracked pow/mashed potatoes/slush you're likely to find when touring. So quick and easy to turn, and they rail. Still loose, but smooth and you're in control and balanced. I choose the 102.5 (from tip) mount after lining the Bya's up with my Bros, since I was happy with the Bros in deeper snow and wanted to replicate that mount. Even at 102.5, the Bya's are still mounted forward of the Bros by a couple cm. Couldn't imagine going further forward with those huge rockered tips.

[MRR11]

Anyone have additional input on mounting locations and if you did/didn't like it there? Picked up a pair of Byas on the board recently and am trying to determine where to mount. Splat's comments a few posts up about moving back to 101 or 102 (or more?) make sense, given the narrowest point of the ski is at 101cm from the tip.

One thing I noticed: the narrowest point of the ski is about 10cm behind the center of effective edge (from widest points before taper at tip and tail). Is this common? This seems to conflict with other skis that I've played around with the mount point, where either method puts my BOF at roughly the same spot. To put my BOF at the waist would put my midsole closer to 107cm from the tip, which seems way far back. So, is the narrowest point of the ski still the center of sidecut if it differs from the center of effective edge? Interestingly, the marked line at 100 from the tip is almost exactly 8cm behind the center of effective edge, which seems normal to me.

When these two points don't jibe, which takes precedence over the other, or do you take a balance of the two?

I initially was hesitant to move back 1cm to 101 from the tip, but am now considering moving to 102 or even 103.

[pfluffenmeister]

Any other opinions on mount point?
I'll be drilling what is likely the last virgin Bya soon.

[SB]

Paging muffycabbage.

I spent several weeks recently with a ski and boot combo to figure out the mount point. For that one i ended up going 2cm behind the ride mark. I could have gone more but did not want to be to far into tail gunner territory.

Your boot set up and overall ski stance will be important part of the formula.

I drank quite a few beers, not all at same time, while sitting and staring at different locations of the boot on the ski.