Anybody catch the Michael Lewis segment on 60 Minutes?

[OldLarry]

Sigh...the smiley means don't get your loafers all bunched up. I just put it out there for full disclosure because I know these things matter to some people.

Ok- loafers unbunched. No tassels today

[philth]

Oh and Phil, sorry about dragging the boys on the floor into it. Was just the first thing that came up when I googled it, ha ha...

Larry, never need to apologize!! There was some pirates down there for sure. And i'm going on record acknowledging Lewis' book as a one sided hatchet job. He is clearly selling books. So what are your thoughts about the chatter that GS is punting Sigma X? That is fairly interesting no?

[Cono Este]

Larry, never need to apologize!! There was some pirates down there for sure. And i'm going on record acknowledging Lewis' book as a one sided hatchet job. He is clearly selling books. So what are your thoughts about the chatter that GS is punting Sigma X? That is fairly interesting no?

Arghh!!!

[OldLarry]

Larry, never need to apologize!! There was some pirates down there for sure. And i'm going on record acknowledging Lewis' book as a one sided hatchet job. He is clearly selling books. So what are your thoughts about the chatter that GS is punting Sigma X? That is fairly interesting no?

Very interesting- not really sure, my my guess is it's a) a political move (they could use the help, image wise) and possibly more significantly b) speaks to the overall profitability of equities trading these days relative to other activities. Look at them selling slk to imc- just not worth the trouble. Their electronic market maker (ex spear) never really took off the way they thought it would either. Look at the suit they brought against he guy that went to Teza- for whatever reason they have never been able to make that work and attract/keep the talent.

Emm's have the best opportunity to profit for trading vs retail flow- dark pools are seen as a free way place to put their exhaust. This works in the other direction, too- they trade vs the exhaust of the pool itself opportunistically before routing on to lit markets. I don't think they ever really got the retail flow to compete. What likely came out of the pool as exhaust was probably not very clean, either...

[OldLarry]

Also may be not thrilled with the idea of looming reporting requirements:

http://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/finra/2013/34-70676.pdf

This fear may be multi- faceted: the fear they will be exposed for doing something wrong or the less nefarious reason that is is a hassle and expensive to comply with the requirement. Makes it less worthwhile to run the pool- technology, support people, sales people, lawyers, etc. when you can pretend you are being the good guy.

Re-routing all of their stuff to nasdaq/bats/etc make also help them make the super tiers and thus come out even/ahead, oddly. This is continually looked at- I was involved with several pools at a large banks and we had to win the internal business like any other outside source of business. They were struggling to make tiers for superior pricing at various venues and it was pretty close sometimes. They would pull everything from us toward the end of the month to get them over the hump elsewhere...

[schuss]

Also may be not thrilled with the idea of looming reporting requirements:

http://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/finra/2013/34-70676.pdf

This fear may be multi- faceted: the fear they will be exposed for doing something wrong or the less nefarious reason that is is a hassle and expensive to comply with the requirement. Makes it less worthwhile to run the pool- technology, support people, sales people, lawyers, etc. when you can pretend you are being the good guy.

Re-routing all of their stuff to nasdaq/bats/etc make also help them make the super tiers and thus come out even/ahead, oddly. This is continually looked at- I was involved with several pools at a large banks and we had to win the internal business like any other outside source of business. They were struggling to make tiers for superior pricing at various venues and it was pretty close sometimes. They would pull everything from us toward the end of the month to get them over the hump elsewhere...

Fucking wah. If your system can't already spit this out, you have no business being in systems design. There may be some complexity in crossing trades etc., but I imagine that should already be baked into the system so it knows when to go outside the pool.

[OldLarry]

Fucking wah. If your system can't already spit this out, you have no business being in systems design. There may be some complexity in crossing trades etc., but I imagine that should already be baked into the system so it knows when to go outside the pool.

You don't know how many shares you will have in total to divvy up in any given month. It is monitored as the trading month goes on. The tiers for special pricing are absolute numbers- not a percentage of total consolidated volume or some such.

You could have a busy start to the month for whatever reason and trading slows to a trickle due to uncertainty in the market, directional, regulatory, geopolitical, whatever. In '08/09 total volume was averaging ~10 billion shares/day. These days it's more like 6. People certainly predict overall volumes with not great accuracy ( again, too many wild cards), but there are other variables that are hard to factor in which intimately determine your market share.

[char]

You don't know how many shares you will have in total to divvy up in any given month. It is monitored as the trading month goes on. The tiers for special pricing are absolute numbers- not a percentage of total consolidated volume or some such.

You could have a busy start to the month for whatever reason and trading slows to a trickle due to uncertainty in the market, directional, regulatory, geopolitical, whatever. In '08/09 total volume was averaging ~10 billion shares/day. These days it's more like 6. People certainly predict overall volumes with not great accuracy ( again, too many wild cards), but there are other variables that are hard to factor in which intimately determine your market share.

This sounds alot like MERS....

[OldLarry]

This sounds alot like MERS....

Mers?

Btw, I'm shocked at how long this thread has gone on. Most people think my world is pretty freakin boring, even in the Land Where Bankers Breed, in Benny's words...

[char]

Mers?

Btw, I'm shocked at how long this thread has gone on. Most people think my world is pretty freakin boring, even in the Land Where Bankers Breed, in Benny's words...

You know, the thing where the bankers foreclosing on houses couldn't prove they owned them...

I am not a trader, but how difficult can it be to print a report once a week or whatever. If you can't, how do you know what you own?

[OldLarry]

You know, the thing where the bankers foreclosing on houses couldn't prove they owned them...

I am not a trader, but how difficult can it be to print a report once a week or whatever. If you can't, how do you know what you own?

Um, that's not the issue.

[Brock Landers]

Btw, I'm shocked at how long this thread has gone on. Most people think my world is pretty freakin boring, even in the Land Where Bankers Breed, in Benny's words...

Im in the boring camp

p.s. Greek 5 year trading inside 5%?!

[Benny Profane]

Jamie Dimon just said we may see 5% long term bonds soon. Woohoo. No risk. Then I can play nine holes and nap a lot.

[Brock Landers]

Benny you can grab a 20-30 year A-rated yielding 5% right now if you want. Pays more than keeping greenbacks under the mattress. AT&T is over 5%. Bunch of AA Muni's out there too

[schuss]

You don't know how many shares you will have in total to divvy up in any given month. It is monitored as the trading month goes on. The tiers for special pricing are absolute numbers- not a percentage of total consolidated volume or some such.

You could have a busy start to the month for whatever reason and trading slows to a trickle due to uncertainty in the market, directional, regulatory, geopolitical, whatever. In '08/09 total volume was averaging ~10 billion shares/day. These days it's more like 6. People certainly predict overall volumes with not great accuracy ( again, too many wild cards), but there are other variables that are hard to factor in which intimately determine your market share.

Yes, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they just reporting actuals each month? You should have that pretty well nailed.

[Benny Profane]

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2014/0...unning-scared/

[OldLarry]

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2014/0...unning-scared/

This has already been basically dismissed as without any merit whatsoever by most shops. Sure they will take it seriously as they do any action but nobody is quaking in their loafers.

Btw, variety as a source of info on this stuff? Seriously? What does Cat Fancy have to say on the matter?

[Hugh Conway]

What does Cat Fancy have to say on the matter?

You mean the Wall Street Journal?

Not sure why the opinion of "most shops" is worth two shits from an industry incapable of self-criticism or honesty.

[OldLarry]

You mean the Wall Street Journal?

Not sure why the opinion of "most shops" is worth two shits from an industry incapable of self-criticism or honesty.

Yes this was also reported in the journal some time ago, which is when people who have like, law degrees and specialize in market structure matters for large banks and shit, decided that they would take it seriously like any other action, as I stated, but that it was without merit. That's a nice way of saying its fucking bullshit, but we have to deal with it.

[Hugh Conway]

poor dears.