OFFICIAL I70 BITCH THREAD....

[Lindahl]

Jesus - is that really accurate? Holy fuck they're morons.

[BrokeSomeRibs]

They should just turn over all public planning in CO to TGR. We'll get that shit figured out in 6 weeks, tops. Maybe 8 weeks if we have to wait for Rontele to reply to all the PMs.

[hatchgreenchile]

But no one wants to pay the taxes to improve the roads in Colorado.... or, *gasp*, repeal TABOR.


But hey, at least our taxes are low, right??? Republicans ftw

A long term Golden to Vail solution is likely 11 figures. If you think that kind of tax revenue is possible in CO, I'll have some of what you're smokin'.
I've said it before. When they build the interstate system in the 60s, they were 90% funded through federal money Big time improvements will have to come from that level again.

[stfu&gbtw]

A long term Golden to Vail solution is likely 11 figures. If you think that kind of tax revenue is possible in CO, I'll have some of what you're smokin'.
I've said it before. When they build the interstate system in the 60s, they were 90% funded through federal money Big time improvements will have to come from that level again.

You're probably right... the way of the future is single driver cars parked on two lanes roads. All these cities investing 10's of billions of dollars in their public transit infrastructures must be out of their damn minds!

[hatchgreenchile]

Help me out....which cities are purposely putting "tens of billions" into said public transit? Maybe as a whole, but not individually.
Our little Fastracks thing is about $7b as it stands.

[WTF is dat]

Since the company I work for is very closely involved with the I-70 project, I thought I would help clear a few things up.

Did you see the federal highway report where the 3rd lane is only certified for part time use because it doesn't meet minimum spec for a 3 lane roadway?

It's not a lane at all - this is not widening - it is a shoulder. It is sacrificing safety for a wee bit more capacity when it's most needed. Federal highways makes the rules on this. If you want wholesale improvements, push for a tax increase.

It's so "colorado" to drop a ton of money into a half assed solution that they'll only use when it's virtually guaranteed to cause a problem.

Are you opposed to incremental improvements for some reason? Maybe you've been asleep for the last two decades, but we don't have $4 billion tucked away in the couch cushions. Which is what it would cost to do the complete fix. This is costing less than $50 million, excluding the debt backed by the tolling itself.

but not during heavy snow (ha!, fantastic, just when it should be open).

Peak traffic volumes are actually in the summer. This will be most useful then. The lane is simply too small to be open during heavy snowfall. The shoulder will be needed during snow events.

I was also wondering how many toll points there will be. It doesn't look like they are installed yet. With the toll lane so close to the normal lane, will it be possible for the receiver to pick up a transponder in the normal lane and then get dinged for the toll?

There are three toll points. But you'll pay the full fare if you hit any one of them. They are installed, and it will not pick up cars in the regular lanes. (E-470 will do the toll processing.) We have already figured this out on US36, I-25, and E-470. The technology is fine and will not pick up cars in other lanes.

How are they are going to keep cars out of the lane when it's "closed" since it won't have a significant space divider like other express lanes? Maybe it will become a true passing only lane to skip around those left lane campers?

The same way you keep cars from passing on the shoulder any other time on any other roadway. There will be signs indicating that the "lane" is closed, and police will pull you over if you are driving in the closed lane.

When there's any weather, license plates will be slushed and snowed up. So no camera can see the plate...therefore it's free, right? Or some hairspray and dirt/dust and have a semi-permanent free pass?

As discussed above, it won't be open during major snow events. Also, the police can always pull you over if you're obscuring your plates. That's not new - it snows in Denver too, and E-470 has been managing for years.

I'm going to laugh at CDOT when the toll lanes don't make even a dent in the traffic or make it worse because people drive extra slow due to the tiny ass lanes. Hopefully somebody gets fired.

It'll make a dent for the folks using the managed lane. Which is all it is supposed to do. Have you heard anybody promising this as a panacea?

The general purpose lanes are normal width, with a nice wide shoulder when the express lane is not in use.

A long term Golden to Vail solution is likely 11 figures. If you think that kind of tax revenue is possible in CO, I'll have some of what you're smoking'.

My point was more that TABOR has made it nearly impossible for CDOT to afford even the most basic upgrades / projects over the past 20 years, which is part of the reason why I-70 is the way it is. Obviously, federal money will be necessary if we ever want to "fix" I-70, but there are other factors at play here. The fact that CDOT has been effectively broke for the past 20 years has not helped matters.

Why do you think CDOT has been relying on the private sector so much lately? We now have private involvement (P3s) along US-36, C-470, I-25, and I-70.

[stfu&gbtw]

Help me out....which cities are purposely putting "tens of billions" into said public transit? Maybe as a whole, but not individually.
Our little Fastracks thing is about $7b as it stands.

Which cities? All of them. What do you think the capital costs were for developing the underground rail systems that exist in cities all over the world? Bridge and tunnel construction? If you want to be a city, at some point you have to come to terms with having people live there... Denver actually has it very easy... Generally good weather, easily distributed population, only a handful of pain points. Anyone who thinks working in the mountains is tough should go hang with the 2nd ave. subway project for a while and see what infrastructure problem solving is all about.

[stfu&gbtw]

Are you opposed to incremental improvements for some reason? Maybe you've been asleep for the last two decades, but we don't have $4 billion tucked away in the couch cushions. Which is what it would cost to do the complete fix. This is costing less than $50 million, excluding the debt backed by the tolling itself.

Like I said, very "colorado". Enormous opportunity, easier than average implementation problems, a rapidly growing tax base, and they can't engineer their way out of a paper bag. I know why the "natives" are nervous, and they ought to be. People all over the world have already figured out how to solve these problems, and they're coming to CO by the tens of thousands every year. These "native" morons don't stand a chance.

[smmokan]

.... and they're coming to CO by the hundreds of thousands every year.

I fixed it for you.

[stfu&gbtw]

I fixed it for you.

Not every year... The population growth from 3 to 4 million took 15 years. Could be the new trend though... good thing they built that "shoulder" lane.

[hatchgreenchile]

Which cities? All of them. What do you think the capital costs were for developing the underground rail systems that exist in cities all over the world? Bridge and tunnel construction? If you want to be a city, at some point you have to come to terms with having people live there... Denver actually has it very easy... Generally good weather, easily distributed population, only a handful of pain points.

Fair point....good thing we don't have to fund "seismic retrofits" like certain places

The list of public works projects in the "tens of billions" range are quite rare domestically. If you're talking about total infrastructure spending, sure, those dollars add up, but that much change on a single highway corridor? Pretty much unprecedented in the states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._expensive_U.S.

[stfu&gbtw]

Fair point....good thing we don't have to fund "seismic retrofits" like certain places

The list of public works projects in the "tens of billions" range are quite rare domestically. If you're talking about total infrastructure spending, sure, those dollars add up, but that much change on a single hughway corridor? Pretty much unprecedented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._expensive_U.S.

And how precedented is it to have a large city with only one highway that requires major renovation? How much easier could it be? Everyone lives in one place, and they all want to go to one other place. Then they want to make the return trip. Most cities are building bridges and tunnels to cross multiple waterways, delivering commuter rail to a 100 mile diameter region, and that's before we get to electric, water, sewer, and network. Denver is high A ball in the infrastructure game and they whine about fixing one goddamn highway like its the infrastructure equivalent of a Randy Johnson fastball. Meanwhile, NYC is boring a 4th level of tunnel infrastructure beneath the East River, through solid granite, 350' below ground.

Man up, Colorado.

[Rockband]

This is interesting https://www.codot.gov/travel/eisenho...ic-counts.html

The average daily number of cars passing through the Eisenhower tunnel in January 2015 is 33,439 the Avg. daily total in January, 2002 is 30,146. Doesn't seem like much of a change in over a decade.

The Denver metro population is 2,754,258, those passing through I-70 to go to the mountains (30K per day avg.) is small peanuts compared to other metropolis transit issues.

Look at the summer numbers, in July, 2015 there were 6,500 more people per day passing through the tunnel than in January.

[stfu&gbtw]

This is interesting https://www.codot.gov/travel/eisenho...ic-counts.html

The average daily number of cars passing through the Eisenhower tunnel in January 2015 is 33,439 the Avg. daily total in January, 2002 is 30,146. Doesn't seem like much of a change in over a decade.

The Denver metro population is 2,754,258, those passing through I-70 to go to the mountains (30K per day avg.) is small peanuts compared to other metropolis transit issues.

Look at the summer numbers, in July, 2015 there were 6,500 more people per day passing through the tunnel than in January.

Meanwhile, the Lincoln tunnel is doing 50k cars per day, with the entire eastbound flow paying a toll (some paying cash) and arriving at a stoplight when the exit the tunnel.

When I moved out here, I believed the story for a while about how everything is just harder to do in the mountains... but over time, I've come to realize that midwesterners are just less capable than people I've encountered elsewhere. Less motivated to find the right answers, less willing to invest in their own futures, more willing to just "call it good" as they say out here. I'd never heard that phrase until I moved here...

It's a shame, the way Colorado is wasted as a resource. Damn place is 85% empty and already over capacity... But as I alluded to in an earlier post, those days are coming to an end. And, in all honesty, the "Colorado Native" movement that has arisen in response is the most obnoxiously hypocritical behavior I've ever seen. It's nauseating to see the descendants of the people who murdered the real Colorado Natives and destroyed every last vestige of their culture driving around with their stupid bumper stickers, preening about their 'native-ness" at dinner parties, and criticizing those who've moved here more recently. It is incredibly crass (not to mention unrealistic) to argue that they stole this land fair and square, so now other people should damn well respect their right to own it.

But, just like when their great great grandparents showed up and drove the first Natives off their land, a new wave of people are moving in, driving this new batch of Natives into socioeconomic obscurity. I for one, have no sympathy.

[Danno]

Like I said, very "colorado". Enormous opportunity, easier than average implementation problems, a rapidly growing tax base, and they can't engineer their way out of a paper bag. I know why the "natives" are nervous, and they ought to be. People all over the world have already figured out how to solve these problems, and they're coming to CO by the tens of thousands every year. These "native" morons don't stand a chance.

TABOR

[char_]

I get that there are summer traffic issues that are tied to capacity, but I always chuckle when I read about un-chained trucks, bald tires, no enforcement, etc and then the suggestion that we should be spending billions to bore a tunnel to solve winter traffic issues.

How about a serious winter traction control program like California with truck holds, chain requirements, etc? All the capacity in the world doesn't matter in the winter if the drivers are unprepared.

[DasBlunt]

^^^^ nice blog

So, are we still one lane E70 from 40 to Idaho springs?

sturgeon sucks balls.

[stfu&gbtw]

TABOR

Oh, I didn't realize that TABOR was being inflicted upon Colorado... I was under the impression that was enacted by popular vote. Was that your point?

[Danno]

keep up your silly rant, it's amusing, but TABOR was passed by a single vote over 20 years ago. Did you know that it can't be repealed by a single vote? And what does it have to do with engineering? Your point seemed to be that us dumb Coloradans couldn't do the engineering, whereas financing is the true problem.

[stfu&gbtw]

keep up your silly rant, it's amusing, but TABOR was passed by a single vote over 20 years ago. Did you know that it can't be repealed by a single vote? And what does it have to do with engineering? Your point seemed to be that us dumb Coloradans couldn't do the engineering, whereas financing is the true problem.

Loving your little foot stamping routine Danno. Of course financing is the issue... Oh, how will your poor colorado natives ever figure out how to repeal TABOR?!

Thanks for proving my point.

[DasBlunt]

keep up your silly rant, it's amusing, but TABOR was passed by a single vote over 20 years ago. Did you know that it can't be repealed by a single vote? And what does it have to do with engineering? Your point seemed to be that us dumb Coloradans couldn't do the engineering, whereas financing is the true problem.

"Some local governments in Colorado found TABOR's restrictions too constraining, and hundreds of cities, counties, school districts and special districts successfully appealed to voters over the years for a partial repreive from some TABOR provisions. - See more at: https://bellpolicy.org/basic/colorados-tabor#sthash.Ogp4jmh1.dpuf"

[WTF is dat]

Enormous opportunity, easier than average implementation problems, a rapidly growing tax base, and they can't engineer their way out of a paper bag.

The tax base is not really growing though, because of TABOR.

I don't think you are grasping this.

Danno gets it.

[WTF is dat]

"Some local governments in Colorado found TABOR's restrictions too constraining, and hundreds of cities, counties, school districts and special districts successfully appealed to voters over the years for a partial repreive from some TABOR provisions. - See more at: https://bellpolicy.org/basic/colorados-tabor#sthash.Ogp4jmh1.dpuf"

Bell Policy Institute???


That article you linked to even says that TABOR had serious negative impacts on colorado, and republican governor Bill Owens even decided that Colorado needed a 5 year time out from TABOR to get things funded.


"The amendment has seriously impaired the state’s ability to set budgetary and program priorities and respond to crises, such as the recession of 2001-03. In short, TABOR has created a state government that is hamstrung by inflexible rules that make it unresponsive and less effective." - See more at: https://bellpolicy.org/basic/colorad....1at8e4uG.dpuf

[stfu&gbtw]

The tax base is not really growing though, because of TABOR.

I don't think you are grasping this.

Danno gets it.

Danno gets what? That the king of colorado forces you to have TABOR? Jesus fucking christ... leave it to you retards to whine incessantly about a law you imposed on yourselves. Like I said, you morons can't manage your way out of a goddamned paper bag... What on earth would you do if you were ever faced with an actual problem?

[DasBlunt]

Bell Policy Institute???


That article you linked to even says that TABOR had serious negative impacts on colorado, and republican governor Bill Owens even decided that Colorado needed a 5 year time out from TABOR to get things funded.


"The amendment has seriously impaired the state’s ability to set budgetary and program priorities and respond to crises, such as the recession of 2001-03. In short, TABOR has created a state government that is hamstrung by inflexible rules that make it unresponsive and less effective." - See more at: https://bellpolicy.org/basic/colorad....1at8e4uG.dpuf

exactly, which is why hundreds of cities, counties, school districts and special districts successfully appealed to voters over the years for a partial reprieve...

people bitching about TABOR now seems archaic.