Avalanche Awareness...does anybody have any?

[reckless toboggan]

Avawhatsits?

Now you're just making up words.

[Micol]

time for a visual
say hello to my little friend...

[yeahman]

I'm curious to know the ratio of accidents where the parties are parents vs not. Seems like many of my friends who are parents changed their tune and approach immediately after kids were born.

Speaking for myself I quit skiing backcountry when I had kids. I miss it. Might go back when they're grown.

[Name Redacted]

time for a visual

Graveline gulch near Copper? Or where?

[Purveyor of Slack]

edit--wasted breath/edit









Condolences to all those that are left behind in the aftermath.

[itsnowjoke]

I've been ski touring for almost 40 years.
Guessing at 3500+ days.
I ski slopes over 35° the vast majority of days.
One long ride in an avalanche during that period with who knows how many close calls.
That's a bit better odds than Russian roulette.
Lucky is the "Dirty Harry Principle". I learned it from Liam Fitzgerald.
Good thing to keep in mind but...hiding under the bed and quivering cuz ya don't feel lucky is stupid.
My "luck" could run out tomorrow or in another 40 years.
I like the odds that experience gives better than dumb luck.

Signed:
Blissfully Unaware

I agree with everything you said. What are the odds?

Obviously, you are at one end of the spectrum. You are highly experienced, trained (I hope), and know what you are doing. On the other end of the spectrum are the guys who go OB unprepared and are going to just follow other tracks as someone mentioned earlier.

You've gone for a ride and had a bunch of close calls. As have I. But it's an educated risk that we're willing to take. Yes, your odds are better than Russian Roulette. The fact is that slides take the highly experienced and inexperienced riders alike. They don't discriminate. My "inflammatory" comments are for the hypothetical guy from Louisiana who is thinking about going out the BC gates tomorrow. It's dangerous out there! Be prepared. But realize that even preparation isn't insurance.

[icelanticskier]

I'm curious to know the ratio of accidents where the parties are parents vs not. Seems like many of my friends who are parents changed their tune and approach immediately after kids were born.

maybe all bc enthusiasts should approach the bc as if they had large happy families to go home to where they are the provider as the wives stay home to take care of the lil ones. could be much more effective than the latest greatest "life saving" gear and edu.

wouldn't it be great? you sign up for avy 1, you walk in all stoked to get drenched in science and snow how and the instructor tells you that you have a family to go home to everyday. class dismissed.

rog

[icelanticskier]

you are trained (I hope)

You've gone for a ride and had a bunch of close calls. As have I. But it's an educated risk that we're willing to take. Yes, your odds are better than Russian Roulette. The fact is that slides take the highly experienced and inexperienced riders alike. They don't discriminate. My "inflammatory" comments are for the hypothetical guy from Louisiana who is thinking about going out the BC gates tomorrow. It's dangerous out there! Be prepared. But realize that even preparation isn't insurance.

the guy from louisiana may be clueless, but he probably spends VERY little time (very little exposure) in the bc and may have so little experience that it may cause enough fear and pause to keep him more safe than the experienced guy that spends a ton of time exposed to the mountains moods and is comfy there.

rog

[itsnowjoke]

A long list? Uh, no.

Considering the exposure and objective dangers faced day to day doing what can be a dangerous job.

No.

Signed;

A reformed A/C worker.

A patroller and forecaster last year, and a patroller this year. Maybe I'm missing someone. RIP.

These guys were/ are at the top of their game. They have checklists, procedures, safe-zones, etc. Then there are the many skiers who know their avalanche safety inside-out backwards and forwards. And yet they perish as well. My basic point is that we don't have this stuff figured out yet and probably never will. Be careful out there!

[icelanticskier]

i'm pretty sure we have enough figured out to stay alive in and around avy terrain, but so long as we're human........

rog

[userA]

I'm curious to know the ratio of accidents where the parties are parents vs not. Seems like many of my friends who are parents changed their tune and approach immediately after kids were born.

usually a close encounter with death, after the new child, is the tune changer imo.

b

[Bunion 2020]

These guys were/ are at the top of their game. They have checklists, procedures, safe-zones, etc.

Have you ever performed avalanche mitigation?

Did you read the accident reports?

It sucks to have to face, especially if you were close to a victim of an avalanche fatality but in most cases it was a series of small and incremental errors that led to a bad final outcome.

Most a/c programs aren't as tight as they could be. Just sayin what I have seen over 30 years.

Its not the lack of awareness of avalanches that kills professionals.

[simplypow]

A patroller and forecaster last year, and a patroller this year. Maybe I'm missing someone. RIP.

These guys were/ are at the top of their game. They have checklists, procedures, safe-zones, etc. Then there are the many skiers who know their avalanche safety inside-out backwards and forwards. And yet they perish as well. My basic point is that we don't have this stuff figured out yet and probably never will. Be careful out there!

did you read the avalanche review posted on this thread? if that's not science then please define it...Complex systems must allow for entropy as well as enthalpy. you cant refute without first acknowledging...

[itsnowjoke]

did you read the avalanche review posted on this thread? if that's not science then please define it...Complex systems must allow for entropy as well as enthalpy. you cant refute without first acknowledging...

I would never claim it's not science. It's just not an exact science. Which is the exact point.

[itsnowjoke]

Have you ever performed avalanche mitigation?

Did you read the accident reports?

It sucks to have to face, especially if you were close to a victim of an avalanche fatality but in most cases it was a series of small and incremental errors that led to a bad final outcome.

Most a/c programs aren't as tight as they could be. Just sayin what I have seen over 30 years.

Its not the lack of awareness of avalanches that kills professionals.

OK. I'll buy that. But if you told the professionals who got caught that this slope has a 100% chance of sliding from here to there, today, right now, they wouldn't have made those errors, right? But we don't know if the slope is going to go. And that's what we've got to impress to all of the newbies in this game.

My apologies if I implied that a lack of awareness gets the pros. The pros have my deepest respect. Of course they know if they're going out on a high-danger day, and they have more experience than beaters like me, by far. That's what makes the inexact science of it all so sobering.

[Shadam]

I think of it a a numbers game ... statistics ...

#cm of new snow,
#cm of storm total,
#cm of facets,
# amount of wind/wind slabs
# in temps, changes in temp of hours/days
# in time since new snow/old snow
# in elevation
# relating to aspect
# days since hoar frost developed
# size of hoar frost crystals
# days since each slope slid
# how many times each slope slides per season
# how big each slide is
# how to limit exposure time to each slope.

there are so many more but I play by numbers and this season is not one for going for big alpine lines ... yet ...

[TahoeJ]

Speaking for myself I quit skiing backcountry when I had kids. I miss it. Might go back when they're grown.

I have kids. Meadow skipping / hippy turns are still pretty fun.

[simplypow]

I think of it a a numbers game ... statistics ...

#cm of new snow,
#cm of storm total,
#cm of facets,
# amount of wind/wind slabs
# in temps, changes in temp of hours/days
# in time since new snow/old snow
# in elevation
# relating to aspect
# days since hoar frost developed
# size of hoar frost crystals
# days since each slope slid
# how many times each slope slides per season
# how big each slide is
# how to limit exposure time to each slope.

there are so many more but I play by numbers and this season is not one for going for big alpine lines ... yet ...

using your criteria I'll try and give the E/ Face of Red near Silverthorne a score

0 new
0 storm
100% DPS on faceted snow
0 HS activity this year
100% year / year SS, and WL sliding every year.
30+ days this year of hurricane force winds stripping snow from very prominent features and creating a grotesque wind feature that is probably 20 ft deep as it tapers from S to N the entire length of the upper bowl. I wouldnt mess with around anywhere near that top loaded area, and I'd be concerned about sympathetic activity in areas that are normally distinct... if for some reason that feature released it would crash down with enough force to make the yeti shit themselves, and that's probably what's going to happen at some point soon. If not on Red then somewhere else in or around the county. Still pretty nice looking snow along the hump. It's just a matter of skinning the 7 mi or so from meadow creek to get there. I don't have any desire to be in the willow creek drainage at this point. The big paths on the south side almost ran to the creek last year, and we all know which direction the winds benn blowing from this year. vibes and vorticies. The mountains win again.

[gaijin]

I have kids. Meadow skipping / hippy turns are still pretty fun.

I stay off big lines now, too, as I have plenty of fun fresh forests around me here in JP. But I do miss the big stuff. And I have told my family I'll go back to riskier lines when the kids are older.

I have a lot of years experience with slides + patrol work + Level III. Patrol work and daily riding on fresh lines trump all certs, btw.

That said, I have a lot of friends out here who are fairly fresh to the game since the advent of modern tech and also as they're settling into financial stability at this point in their lives. They want to get after it on days I know it's clearly pushing it. They have no avi etiquette at all. "Why did you knock all the powder down?" (for real.)

They also generally ignore me as they think I'm just a pussy. They don't have any background but are strong enough to ride anything. Those are the hard ones to get through to. Simply naive... to the point I don't like to ride with them and worry when I know they are out there on a solo day without me watching their every move.

They're generally very smart people in life but lack the history to understand that all snow is different. To them it's either powdery or icy. And even then can't figure out the layer.

It's hard to look after your friends and not sound preachy. I usually have to explain the layer and how recent weather is changing the pack.

[bodywhomper]

[powdork]

bad video too

[whipski]

Familiarity breeds contempt

[totaliboard]

I think what some people dont realize is that no matter who/where you are, if you go out day after day, season after season, youre gonna get slid on. youre gonna lose a partner, and/or you just might get caught yourself. the odds are not in your favor.

[Micol]

Graveline gulch near Copper? Or where?

fremont 1.5

I think what some people dont realize is that no matter who/where you are, if you go out day after day, season after season, youre gonna get slid on. youre gonna lose a partner, and/or you just might get caught yourself. the odds are not in your favor.

true statement

[bean]

It struck me amazing to hear Jeremy Jones say that 50% of the time, they turn away from a line. That is a whole hell a lot of times not riding the zone you set out for.

Most weekend warriors maybe do not have that "luxury".

Maybe that fact forces their hand of perceived scarcity.

Here in Colorado, one bad season and it seems the fever of powder addiction is high.

First world problems.

Better to turn back as a weekend warrior and get to ski all the other weekends for all the other seasons that are yet to come.