Avalanche in residential Missoula neighborhood

**whipski** · 03-02-2014, 09:12 AM

Let the lawsuits begin!

**userA** · 03-02-2014, 09:19 AM

how obvious, fences, gates, rope line? is it posted all around or just local knowledge of closure.
elk sure get special treatment, hope the people that lost their homes get the same.
b

**beaterdit** · 03-02-2014, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by DasBlunt

"He wasn't trying to hide anything," said Karkanen, adding the snowboarder was likely unaware of local rules involving Mount Jumbo."

he is unlucky he caused it, but it sounds like the rules of that area might be vague for some. Kids sledding/snowboarding all the same junk show games during a huge event.

Maybe the city/county/state had an obligation to better assess the slope and potential safety issues. Maybe they needed avalanche fences.

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE POOR SNOWBOARDERS!!!

Das Cunt maybe you should get the city manager fired???

Seriously, REALLY hope these people are alright and get a new home to live in.

**WaistDeepGroomers** · 03-02-2014, 10:49 AM

Thanks for providing some local insight for the article I just put up on the homepage about the incident, stalefish3169 I grabbed your photo for the piece but linked back to you with credit. Really appreciate the local insight you all have provided!

http://www.tetongravity.com/blogs/Sn...me-6563094.htm

**bigsky406** · 03-02-2014, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by flowing alpy

how obvious, fences, gates, rope line? is it posted all around or just local knowledge of closure.
elk sure get special treatment, hope the people that lost their homes get the same.
b

It's obvious this area is closed. You cannot access Jumbo via trail without encountering large signs explaining the closure. The local newspaper and TV stations do stories on the closure every winter/spring. Unless he or she accessed the mountain by post-holing up super steep terrain, which is almost certainly not the case, they would have passed, and should have seen, the closure signs. You can't rope, fence or gate a whole mountain.

Your comment about "elk sure get special treatment" is troll bait. You appear to know nothing about the history, wildlife or ecology of this area, so might be better to just keep it zipped on this subject.

The rise of backcountry skiing and boarding in Missoula is astonishing. There are crowds of people out there with the gear, but in my experience very few of them have even the most basic understanding of the risks involved with backcountry travel. Again, I'm not saying this boarder intended for anyone to get hurt, but people have to be made aware of how stupid this rider's actions were so we can help educate the ignorant masses. This person's ignorance of snowpack and avalanche danger was the primary cause of this accident. Anyone who had even gone to an avalanche lecture would know how dangerous these extreme conditions are. People who think they can just grab their planks, hike up a mountain and ski/ride with impunity are not only giving backcountry skiers/boarders a bad name, but they're putting other people's lives at risk.

If you want to go out and kill yourself with your ignorance, have at it. But when you put other people's lives at risk you are crossing a line. This is what is missing form this discussion, especially here locally. I have little patience for people defending or making excuses for this rider's actions. If you don't want to be made an example of, then use your head and don't do stupid shit. This snowboarder undoubtedly feels like shit, but then he isn't the one in the hospital fighting for his life, and he probably had a home to go back to. There are two people who lost everything, and three who almost lost their lives, because someone was careless in their pursuit of fresh tracks.

**jamal** · 03-02-2014, 12:22 PM

there are fences and signs at the regular access points and trailheads. Not all of it is closed though, and the place just above those houses is open. You just have to stay below the L. Sounds like they were just above that though.

http://www.missoulian.com/app/hikebike/RSV-mtj.html

**stuckathuntermtn** · 03-02-2014, 01:15 PM

Huh, guess the L is open all yeah, isn't it?
Still a good point about someone having no business being on that hill.

**RootSkier** · 03-02-2014, 02:52 PM

Are all of you judgmental know-it-alls all over the dozens of people that were skiing on Sentinel this storm cycle, too? Dude made a mistake, and there will no doubt be consequences. But it's not like this guy dropped in on a known slide path.

I think the fact that something like this has never happened in the history of Missoula means we should cut bro a little slack. After all, the homeowners insurance companies of the three wrecked houses probably won't.

**SuperChief** · 03-02-2014, 04:49 PM

I'd be surprised if there isn't some ridiculous natural disaster clause that will deny coverage for the property owners.

**BaNosser** · 03-02-2014, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by SuperChief

I'd be surprised if there isn't some ridiculous natural disaster clause that will deny coverage for the property owners.

Quite possibly... about 20 yrs ago a couple I worked with were (fortunately) on vacation when a refrigerator/freezer sized boulder decided to let go, tumble down and rip thru their house in Cleghorn Canyon RC SD... ending up in their basement.. Insurance Co: So sorry.. natural occurrence.. no coverage for you..

Hope that's not the case here..

**Single Track** · 03-03-2014, 02:26 PM

The woman who was buried in her house has died. Shit. This kind of takes the story to the next level.

Prayers and vibes to their friends and family.

**cloud cult** · 03-03-2014, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Single Track

The woman who was buried in her house has died. Shit. This kind of takes the story to the next level.

Prayers and vibes to their friends and family.

Yeah, now a fatality. http://missoulian.com/news/local/wom...a4bcf887a.html

**beaterdit** · 03-03-2014, 03:05 PM

Fuuuuuuuuuuck.

RIP.

Hopefully her husband recovers.

**bigsky406** · 03-03-2014, 06:45 PM

And as the danger continues to elevate with changing weather conditions, still virtually no discussion in the local media about how the slide happened, what factors were at play, what decisions were made by those responsible for the slide, and how it could have been avoided. Unlike an investigation into a backcountry avalanche incident, where survivors are interviewed, the site is investigated, photographed, analyzed, etc. it seems like everyone is focused on the sensational, the tragic and the heroism instead of the relevant facts that could save lives in the future. A critical analysis of how and why this accident happened, including information from those involved in the initiation, is being left out because nobody wants to make this poor sap who triggered it feel any worse than he already does.

How are other supposed to learn from this if we're more interested in protecting the people responsible rather than learning from their mistakes? I want to read the story where they interview the guy who caused this slide and ask him what he was thinking.

Sorry if that sounds mean.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 03-03-2014, 07:24 PM

Well, now it's potentially a homicide investigation, so there should be quite a lot of detail.

**neufox47** · 03-03-2014, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by SuperChief

I'd be surprised if there isn't some ridiculous natural disaster clause that will deny coverage for the property owners.

Doubtful. Events must be specifically excluded and avalanches aren't really on the radar of most actuaries and under writers. I'd have to look but I don't think a land slide exclusion applies to snow avalanches. That would be the most likely exclusion. Earth movement shouldn't apply because it's not earth, soil etc.

Banosser, that may have been excluded under landslide or possibly earth movement but I'm not aware of a "natural occurance" exclusion.

**RootSkier** · 03-03-2014, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by bigsky406

I want to read the story where they interview the guy who caused this slide and ask him what he was thinking.

Sorry if that sounds mean.

It doesn't sound mean. It sounds unrealistically demanding.

Do you really think it EVER occurred to this dude that he was about to trigger a 500+ year slide path that would bury a kid and kill a woman? No, he didn't. So quit trying to blame others and this guy, who obviously made a horrible mistake that he will never forget. You want to know what this guy was thinking 72 hours after it happened? He'll be thinking about it for the rest of his life, so maybe you should chill with your demands for knowledge and perspective, at least for the time being.

**_Aaron_** · 03-03-2014, 09:22 PM

The snowboarder isnt in the right (due to the elk closure) but the city planners aren't guilt free either. Of course its a super rare event (>100year slide) but whos to say an Elk couldn't have triggered it an hour later or it have occurred naturally? The city planners overlooked it and the snowboarder made a bad/uninformed decision. The outcome sucks either way. Vibes to those involved.

Hugh Conway · 03-03-2014, 09:30 PM

the house was likely built before you were born _Aaron_ (source says 1975), and before "city planners" gave a crap, if there even were such things in Missoula then. eesh, do you people want to be responsible for your actions in the backcountry or not?

**_Aaron_** · 03-03-2014, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

the house was likely built before you were born _Aaron_ (source says 1975), and before "city planners" gave a crap, if there even were such things in Missoula then. eesh, do you people want to be responsible for your actions in the backcountry or not?

Did I say the snowboarder was free from responsibility? I agree the snowboarder should e held responsible for his actions but he is not the only one at fault here.

**bigsky406** · 03-03-2014, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by RootSkier

Do you really think it EVER occurred to this dude that he was about to trigger a 500+ year slide path that would bury a kid and kill a woman?

Let me ask you a similarly pointless question: Do you think the pilot in a fatal airplane crash doesn't "think about it for the rest of his life?"

Does that mean we shouldn't ask him what happened until it's less of a touchy subject?

Do I think it occurred to this guy (or gal) that he'd trigger a "500+ year slide path?" No, I don't, and I've said so already. But if that is the truth then I want that fact reported. If it turns out this guy is an experienced backcountry "snow enthusiasts" (the cops' term), then I want to know what, from his training or experience, led him to believe he could safely ski that line on a 37 degree pitch above a residential neighborhood under those snowpack conditions (while trespassing). I might learn something from his mistake. If he didn't know anything about snowpack conditions or avalanche safety, then I want that reported so maybe some of those Missoula college kids, whose folks got them skins and AT bindings or a splitboard for Christmas, think twice before heading up the mountain without first taking an avalanche course.

Right now we're left to speculation and assumptions because the most talked-about event of the winter, which occurred within plain view of the entire city, is not being fully investigated or reported on by the media apparently because nobody wants this snowboarder to feel worse than he already does.

Tonight Interstate 90 between St. Regis and Lookout Pass is closed because of Avy danger. On Saturday night a small slide buried the westbound Orange St. I-90 off-ramp. We had more snow in the last month than the many areas around here have seen since the late 1990s, and much of the area is under an extreme avalanche danger warning. And, as evidenced by the tracks covering the face of neighboring Mt. Sentinel last week, there are more people in the backcountry around Missoula than ever before, all competing for fresh pow.

Yeah... let's wait until the sun is shining, the grass is green and the flowers are blooming before we have a tough discussion about the risks untrained and uninformed backcountry travelers pose to themselves and others.

Hugh Conway · 03-04-2014, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by _Aaron_

Did I say the snowboarder was free from responsibility? I agree the snowboarder should e held responsible for his actions but he is not the only one at fault here.

Do you understand that 1975 was a very different place? Before the west was filled with suburbanites?