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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Related question - are the 14/15 Belafontes single camber or triple camber? I can't keep track of all the year to year changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    They have been Triple Camber for a couple years now. So yes, the 14/15 are triple.
    Thanks for being the ambassador, Luke. I've always loved Moments and their stellar service. This is just an extension of that great service.

    Here's an idea; since your skis seems to change, why not archive the past year's specs? Have a place socked away on your website where the specs, camber, weight, geometry and everything else is stashed so those of us that have a particular vintage of ski can refer back to their details.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by telelebowski View Post
    Bobcat,
    I skied the Underworlds a half-day, groomers, and boot high on hardpack off. Speedfreak in the other thread actually finally probably pointed out what I struggled to even understand at the time that it was going on. If you try to ski driving the front of the boot, the front cleat or whatever it is actually washes out, and you over power the ski and it skitters until you move your weight back and then the back camber or cleat or whatever hooks wherever it is which 98 out of 100 is not where you want to be and now you have to try and unload that edge so that you can turn and do it all over again. It was worse off the groomers. If you skiied them a bunch would you probably figure out where your balance point should be? I don't know. To me the unpredictability of the ski turned me off big time, each run I was thinking to myself if I had a file I would just de-tune the fuck out of the entire edges, everywhere. But then when you look at them it's a magical mystery show where you would even de-tune the things. Then it could just be me. I know a dude who swears by his Concepts, I just am at a total loss how double, triple, WHY NOT QUAD CAMBER??!!, provides anything of value. I think they will be fine for volcano tours and spring stuff with their light weight and where it's predictable spring snow. I wanted very much to like them, because I ditched my Freerides for the Exit Worlds because they were so uber-versatile. But that left a 101 type gap for a full ski-mountaineering ski that could be versatile for Euro variability, long tours, and high-consequence lines where I certainly don't want to be fucking about trying to figure what will wash out and what will hold. There is very little out there, so I ended up grabbing some 104 Coombacks on close-out. Not ideal, but at least I know what they will do. Like I said somewhere, all I want was an Underworld with normal camber. And sharks, with fricken' lasers on their heads. Let me know how you find them, hopefully they are less squirrely then what I experienced. With them messing with the Exit Worlds I am already in the process of obtaining a pair of last years with boobies and monkies in 190. So at some point I will probably add the comparisons between the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by telelebowski View Post
    Melee,
    I like Moment skis. I have a pair of PB&Js as my tele setup that are outstanding. As is obvious, I am about to start hoarding pairs of Exit Worlds. That said, I can assure you that I personally as a skiier have not been lobbying the ski industry to remove all camber in skis and put in micro-cambers fore and aft of the flat spot to stiffen the rocker and act like a wheelie bar helping me to get back into the right position after I flail while hucking something. In fact, I think that is borderline insane. I think I've got an even better idea. Why don't you keep making awesome skis like you did before and let skiiers learn to jump off shit with them.

    All the Dude wanted was his lightweight touring Bibbys back.
    You are a poet and a scholar. Heh.

    Thanks for the detailed beta. Like you, I tend to drive skis, but have really, really loved my Bibbys. A lot. And like you, I heart my 184 Exit Worlds. Both of which I had to change my stance and style when skiing, versus say my Dynastar XXLs or ON3P Wrenagades. I'm hoping that ability to change up style while skiing will have me liking the Underworlds. Additionally, there were quite a few people I skied with back in Montana that I trust that put time in on the Deathwish and loved it. We'll see if that translates.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig View Post
    Thanks for being the ambassador, Luke. I've always loved Moments and their stellar service. This is just an extension of that great service.

    Here's an idea; since your skis seems to change, why not archive the past year's specs? Have a place socked away on your website where the specs, camber, weight, geometry and everything else is stashed so those of us that have a particular vintage of ski can refer back to their details.
    +1 I would be psyched if all companies did this. I suppose there's little value in it for the company though, as it only helps people buying used skis.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    +1 I would be psyched if all companies did this. I suppose there's little value in it for the company though, as it only helps people buying used skis.
    Indeed and that's the rub. Though from a brand stickiness and customer loyalty perspective, I think there is value there.

    Occasionally, through some Google-fu, one can find archived pages of manufacturers ski specs. But this TGR and we maggots are lazy fucks.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig View Post
    Thanks for being the ambassador, Luke. I've always loved Moments and their stellar service. This is just an extension of that great service.

    Here's an idea; since your skis seems to change, why not archive the past year's specs? Have a place socked away on your website where the specs, camber, weight, geometry and everything else is stashed so those of us that have a particular vintage of ski can refer back to their details.
    Thats a great idea. It would take awhile to build out. For now you can see most of the catalogs we have ever made here: http://issuu.com/momentskis

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    Thats a great idea. It would take awhile to build out. For now you can see most of the catalogs we have ever made here: http://issuu.com/momentskis
    Ooh, that's a good start. Nice. Thanks!

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by telelebowski View Post
    Bobcat,
    I skied the Underworlds a half-day, groomers, and boot high on hardpack off. Speedfreak in the other thread actually finally probably pointed out what I struggled to even understand at the time that it was going on. If you try to ski driving the front of the boot, the front cleat or whatever it is actually washes out, and you over power the ski and it skitters until you move your weight back and then the back camber or cleat or whatever hooks wherever it is which 98 out of 100 is not where you want to be and now you have to try and unload that edge so that you can turn and do it all over again. It was worse off the groomers. If you skiied them a bunch would you probably figure out where your balance point should be? I don't know. To me the unpredictability of the ski turned me off big time...

    But that left a 101 type gap for a full ski-mountaineering ski that could be versatile for Euro variability, long tours, and high-consequence lines where I certainly don't want to be fucking about trying to figure what will wash out and what will hold.
    Its not that I found the front cleat washes out if you drive too hard into the front of the boot -- you can certainly drive the skis, but they're not Garbones -- I found that I'd lose grip in the tails if I drove too hard.

    For me it was really a question of learning where and how to drive them to maintain edge grip (or lose it if that's what you're looking for). Ive had them on some seriously fucked up wind scoured shit in no-fall terrain and never had a problem with grip - that's why I liked them so much compared to what I've had in the past. Rather than trying to find grip I had to learn how to break them out of an arc once I drove them into it. My main point in the other thread was that the Underworlds do have a learning curve for skiers that are used to driving the shit out of everything. Pretty sure that's more from the low fat layup than anything else, and is pretty common to touring gear generally.

    I think the additional stiffness Moment added this year will definitely help in that regard. That said - Melee, feel free to make a full-fat Deathwishy layup Underworld for the bigger guys. I'd be all over a pair.

    As for the Ghost Train (Exit World 2.0) profile, to me it didn't radically change the performance. It just feels like pretty much every other flat/rockered ski, but it isn't totally shitty getting back to the lift and has some extra juice in the tail. The difference is super subtle, but was enough to convince me to keep my Trains and sell my Rens.
    Quote Originally Posted by doughboyshredder View Post
    If you're not standing on the fucking traverse with your thumb up your ass you wont get checked.

    dumbfuck.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    Its not that I found the front cleat washes out if you drive too hard into the front of the boot -- you can certainly drive the skis, but they're not Garbones -- I found that I'd lose grip in the tails if I drove too hard.

    For me it was really a question of learning where and how to drive them to maintain edge grip (or lose it if that's what you're looking for). Ive had them on some seriously fucked up wind scoured shit in no-fall terrain and never had a problem with grip - that's why I liked them so much compared to what I've had in the past. Rather than trying to find grip I had to learn how to break them out of an arc once I drove them into it. My main point in the other thread was that the Underworlds do have a learning curve for skiers that are used to driving the shit out of everything. Pretty sure that's more from the low fat layup than anything else, and is pretty common to touring gear generally.

    I think the additional stiffness Moment added this year will definitely help in that regard. That said - Melee, feel free to make a full-fat Deathwishy layup Underworld for the bigger guys. I'd be all over a pair.

    As for the Ghost Train (Exit World 2.0) profile, to me it didn't radically change the performance. It just feels like pretty much every other flat/rockered ski, but it isn't totally shitty getting back to the lift and has some extra juice in the tail. The difference is super subtle, but was enough to convince me to keep my Trains and sell my Rens.
    Exactly, its not the Triple Camber that was the issue. It was the stiffness of the ski. That's why this season we upgraded the core to Paulownia/Ash from Paulownia/Pine and stiffened it up.

    I can drive my Deathwishes as hard as I want and it goes in the same exact camber mold.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post
    Its not that I found the front cleat washes out if you drive too hard into the front of the boot -- you can certainly drive the skis, but they're not Garbones -- I found that I'd lose grip in the tails if I drove too hard.

    For me it was really a question of learning where and how to drive them to maintain edge grip (or lose it if that's what you're looking for). Ive had them on some seriously fucked up wind scoured shit in no-fall terrain and never had a problem with grip - that's why I liked them so much compared to what I've had in the past. Rather than trying to find grip I had to learn how to break them out of an arc once I drove them into it. My main point in the other thread was that the Underworlds do have a learning curve for skiers that are used to driving the shit out of everything. Pretty sure that's more from the low fat layup than anything else, and is pretty common to touring gear generally.

    I think the additional stiffness Moment added this year will definitely help in that regard. That said - Melee, feel free to make a full-fat Deathwishy layup Underworld for the bigger guys. I'd be all over a pair.

    As for the Ghost Train (Exit World 2.0) profile, to me it didn't radically change the performance. It just feels like pretty much every other flat/rockered ski, but it isn't totally shitty getting back to the lift and has some extra juice in the tail. The difference is super subtle, but was enough to convince me to keep my Trains and sell my Rens.
    Good to know. Thanks for the beta.

    An important point for clarification; the Underworlds were purchased with the strict intent of backcountry and touring duty, only. I wanted something short, light and easy to handle in the backcountry. I also wanted something for short, wiggle turns and that could handle variable snow. I tend to dial it back a bit when I tour, so I'm no driving stuff they way I would inbounds. Plus, my Maestrales just don't ski like my Langes. That's also why I love my Exit Worlds; I can be mellow on them when touring and they just work so damn well. Stable, turny, fun and versatile in all but the shittiest conditions. The Underworlds are lighter so my hope is to take the further and longer here in the PNW.

    And to think; I could have bought your 196 Rens.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post

    Also, if you want a new pair of Exit World 190s with any graphic from our current line up let me know because the Bibby 190 mold is going in November 1st and I can throw you in a pair.

    Let me know here: luke@momentskis.com
    Does that mean you'll build me a 14/15 190 exit world (specifically not the 15/16) in the bibby mold with the topsheet of my choice?

    And that ski would weigh...how much?

    This doesn't sound bad...
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Does that mean you'll build me a 14/15 190 exit world (specifically not the 15/16) in the bibby mold with the topsheet of my choice?

    And that ski would weigh...how much?

    This doesn't sound bad...
    It would be last years 14/15 Exit World 190. Same exact thing, same weight.

    Your graphic choice from this years collection. $749. Let me know: luke@momentskis.com

  12. #37
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    Impressed with Melee/Moments customer service.

    I personally have heard great things about the triple camber. Im a little scared and skeptical myself, but i dont think moment would commit most of the lineup to that camber style if it didnt make the ski better.

    I saw 10s of people skiing deathwishes around Jackson Hole the past couple seasons, and everyone of them said it was the best ski ever. Jackson gets very cruddy in between snowfalls, refrozen crud moguls everywhere, it seemed the deathwish could run head to head with the gunsmoke 186 in crud, while being much more playful in powder. Maybe its because of the trip carlisle camber.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    It would be last years 14/15 Exit World 190. Same exact thing, same weight.

    Your graphic choice from this years collection. $749. Let me know: luke@momentskis.com
    ^^^^^^^
    This is one of the main reasons I keep going back to Moment (aside from their amazing builds) year after year. Solid skis and even better customer service.

    I jumped on the OG Comi with an email to Casey before they were even up for order after seeing a post of Zippy shredding them and he sent me a pair (136 waist to the EC!) at what must've been close to cost. They had total confidence in their product and I was sold.

    Some models just fall flat, but then there is an immediate reaction and an overhaul that exceeds expectations (Chant ==> Train).

    At this point I've even got my girlfriend (Sierra & Reagan) and Mom (Bella) on them. It'll be a sad sad day when it's time for the GF to retire her Reagans. I'm sure at that point Moment will be getting an email begging for a resurrection.

    Bobcat - what you're describing is exactly how I use them. Dialed back, way more mellow than I usually ski - and it's the first pair I've actually enjoyed skiing like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by doughboyshredder View Post
    If you're not standing on the fucking traverse with your thumb up your ass you wont get checked.

    dumbfuck.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedfreak View Post

    Bobcat - what you're describing is exactly how I use them. Dialed back, way more mellow than I usually ski - and it's the first pair I've actually enjoyed skiing like that.
    Rad. That's what I wanted to hear. I love my exit worlds for pow touring. But for days when conditions aren't awesome or lighter weight is needed, I needed something.

    I went through two pairs of Vicks; one pair of the 104mm width verions and they sucked unless you were driving then hard or ripping, which I wasn't doing while touring. Tried the your lay up; better, but still suited best for resort shredding.

    Now... About the snow here.
    Last edited by Bobcat Sig; 10-23-2015 at 10:01 AM.

  15. #40
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    I was looking for 184 EWs, but got a deal on some 15/16 186 EW's. I'm a little scared of the new profile, but what the hell, I figured I would try them for myself since there doesn't seem to be much info out there on how the 15/16 EW skis. Really curious how they will handle variable snow, but I don't doubt there soft snow performance. Pretty soft hand flex compared to my old EWs and Bibbys. Now if I could just score a deal on some Tallacs.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick View Post
    ... Now if I could just score a deal on some Tallacs.
    Saw the Tallacs after I popped for the Underworlds. That's what I get for gear whoring. The Tallacs are heavier and narrower. And I wanted something shorter than 186 for touring because I'm a kickturn gaper.

  17. #42
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    Whats the height-to-ski size ratio for kick turners?

    Say im 6'3, 200 lbs, my mid winter touring ski is 189 steeple 112. What would size would I want for longer, more technical tours, in spring slush or corn?

    182-4cm too long? 98 waist? I see people my size going with 178-180s for spring purposes, but i feel like im always going to go over the handle bars during snow transitions, if i charge at all on a 180cm or shorter ski.

    Im a dynafit jong (new to actual skinning, had dukes but always bootpacked)with little technique, but a quick learner.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevergreene View Post
    Whats the height-to-ski size ratio for kick turners?

    Say im 6'3, 200 lbs, my mid winter touring ski is 189 steeple 112. What would size would I want for longer, more technical tours, in spring slush or corn?

    182-4cm too long? 98 waist? I see people my size going with 178-180s for spring purposes, but i feel like im always going to go over the handle bars during snow transitions, if i charge at all on a 180cm or shorter ski.

    Im a dynafit jong (new to actual skinning, had dukes but always bootpacked)with little technique, but a quick learner.
    I've found shorter is better in the backcountry; easier to skin with, less weight and way more forgiving when getting into tight terrain or situations. I also tend to dial it back in the backcountry. I tour for pow, for the exercise, lack of crowds and the experience - I don't tour to huck my meat.

    The Viciks I toured with were both 186 and I felt them too long. The 184 Exit Worlds were money in the pow touring I did last year.

  19. #44
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    Ok so just go for the shortest ski I feel comfortable with?

    Maybe a 184 annex 98, or 184 steeple 102. Wont be getting another ski until spring, so got time to think.

    Sorry for the thread Hijack, back to the moments.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevergreene View Post
    Ok so just go for the shortest ski I feel comfortable with?

    Maybe a 184 annex 98, or 184 steeple 102. Wont be getting another ski until spring, so got time to think.

    Sorry for the thread Hijack, back to the moments.
    It all epends on the terrain and the season in which you tour. I love ON3P skis but the weight was too much for me (read: I could've been in better shape). If you don't mind the weight and an unforgiving ski in the backcountry, the Steeple would be good. It's certainly tough enough to withstand abuse of thin cover and sketchy exits.

  21. #46
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    I have the 189 steeple 112, for powder touring. It seems pretty managable at my size.

    I will be looking for a slush, corn ski thats 8 lbs per pair or less, this spring.

  22. #47
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    Well, I have the "daily tourer" hole in my quiver. I'd like to fill it.

    I was considering some vicik tours...
    But this has me with second thoughts.

    Honestly, the tallac is eerily similar to the vicik for dims. Slightly narrower, shorter radius...but that's almost the same ski. Put another way -- it looks (I think Luke would agree) like a smaller governor. That ski charges. If you don't want to charge in the BC, I suspect the UW was the right choice.

    Bobcat - how big are you?
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevergreene View Post
    I have the 189 steeple 112, for powder touring. It seems pretty managable at my size.

    I will be looking for a slush, corn ski thats 8 lbs per pair or less, this spring.
    Praxis yeti

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Well, I have the "daily tourer" hole in my quiver. I'd like to fill it.

    I was considering some vicik tours...
    But this has me with second thoughts.

    Honestly, the tallac is eerily similar to the vicik for dims. Slightly narrower, shorter radius...but that's almost the same ski. Put another way -- it looks (I think Luke would agree) like a smaller governor. That ski charges. If you don't want to charge in the BC, I suspect the UW was the right choice.

    Bobcat - how big are you?
    The Tallac was based on the Governor. The Underworld and Exit World are very untraditional touring skis so we wanted to bring something a little bit more directional into the tour collection.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevergreene View Post
    Impressed with Melee/Moments customer service.

    I personally have heard great things about the triple camber. Im a little scared and skeptical myself, but i dont think moment would commit most of the lineup to that camber style if it didnt make the ski better
    A few years ago when Moment made the Deathwish, I was even more skeptical than you....and I'm a senior ambassador of sorts

    Well, what if I told you, that its my 'go to' ski in almost any condition or location. Of course, we all have different styles of skiing and we all come in different shapes and sizes .I'm a similar size to you (from reading below) and like to ski aggressively...ie. always wanted the stiffest ski I could find. Moment actually catered to me over the years with stiff M1s, Garbones, Rubys, Belafonte, and now with the Governors. But...the evil graphics sucked me in...so I gave them a try. Now 4 years later, I'm on them 90% of the time. Why, they are just so damn fun. They carve nice round GS turns, hold at Mach Speeds, make slashing speed in pow effortless, can handle the terrain park, super light but don't mind a straightline. Hell, when my son and I went to NZ this year, I brought one pair of skis. You can guess which ones.

    Some video from August on the 15/16 Deathwish:


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