2014/2015 ON3P Skis (Official Thread) - Discussion and Lust

[ricky64]

Muggy,
Sure you wouldn't rather have a wren 102?

[Muggydude]

Never tried, but I need to. I'm planning on demoing some if I can, we'll see. For an all mountain and harder snow ski I like the rockered, playful feel of the JMOs. But I also like skiing aggressive on other skis. Maybe I'm missing out considering that I've drifted away from jibing around and rarely hit the park anymore.

[SupreChicken]

Never tried, but I need to. I'm planning on demoing some if I can, we'll see. For an all mountain and harder snow ski I like the rockered, playful feel of the JMOs. But I also like skiing aggressive on other skis. Maybe I'm missing out considering that I've drifted away from jibing around and rarely hit the park anymore.

Probably doing this backwards, but I'm actually hitting the park more and looking to play around more (not less) on firm snow days. When I was younger, I would just rage. Now I want to play around in the park more. I keep getting older and the park rats stay the same age. Still need that kartel 106 demo. And stevens is closed for now

Tex - I certainly had a good laugh about that. Make sure she goes grizzlycorn.

[XavierD]

With several days on my 186 Kartel 98s, I have it figured out and can ski pretty hard on them. I think the earlier model Jeronimos were better suited as an all mountain ski, for someone used to driving the tip though. The big thing with the Kartels is you need to figure out how to keep your weight forward without driving the tips. I'm really happy with it so far, but can understand how it is not for everyone. Detune the rocker sections with a file before skiing.

[HVskier]

Just wanted to leave a few stream of consciousness thoughts on my 181 Kartel 106 which I have been on for about 2 months now...
I first tried a pair at the beartooth event last summer and knew after a few turns that this was the ski that I had to have. They felt great in the moguls and super stable everywhere. My first day on them was about 8" of pow over hardpack bumps and I was blown away. Smashing through bumps with no regard to lines , popping little airs, dropping smaller cliffs and doubling bumps on the traverse out they felt perfectly matched to the terrain and me.

They do require a bit more centered weight distribution but I thought it was easy to adapt to. I think they charge pretty hard and are also extremely playful and maneuverable. I don't know what it is but I've never felt a ski with a smoother pop off of moguls, rollers, drops or park jumps. Also feel great on the landings. I think they slightly lack in float compared to some other skis of similar size. My favorite conditions for them are crud and bumps with fresh snow

Out of the box I didn't find them too enjoyable on hard groomers. Seemed hard to release from a turn and a bit hooky. They seemed to even hook on the hard corduroy lines. After my first tune this was completely cured. I suspect that the shop detuned the rocker a bit more.

I was originally somewhat reluctant to try them and didn't think I wanted a more jibby ski. Now they've impressed me so much that I almost want to replace my billygoats with a Jeffrey 122.

[mfa81]

I almost want to replace my billygoats with a Jeffrey 122.

please, just buy the 122! I'd never understand why someone would let the BG go... btw, both have their place in a quiver!

[TahoeJ]

So stupid question, but I'm curious - what color herringbone bottom sheets next year?

[SupreChicken]

Just wanted to leave a few stream of consciousness thoughts on my 181 Kartel 106 which I have been on for about 2 months now...
.

I was originally somewhat reluctant to try them and didn't think I wanted a more jibby ski. Now they've impressed me so much that I almost want to replace my billygoats with a Jeffrey 122.

I have and use both the 191 BG and the 191 caylor. So it can be done.

Where are you mounted?
Where is Xavier D mounted?

[TexasGortex]

Tex - I certainly had a good laugh about that. Make sure she goes grizzlycorn.

If she gets next years model it's Grizzlycorn (provided they are offered). We will probably end grabbing one of the discounted current models though.

[TexasGortex]

First off, just wanted to say thank you for hosting a demo day. It was nice to meet everyone. No one punched me in the face, even if I deserve it. I would definitely recommend making the effort to get to a demo day if at all possible.

I took out the Jeffrey 112 in a 186cm twice and the Billygoat in a 189cm (if I recall correctly). My wife took out the 171 Kartel 98, and the 110mm and 100mm Jessie. Hot and sunny spring conditions. I'd never actually been inbounds at Loveland before, but we pretty easily found opportunities to put the skis through a variety of stuff. Bumps, hard snow, packed/groomed, slush, higher speed turns (groomed and not), some trees, a small cornice, and a bunch of natural-type little crap to launch off scattered around. No fresh snow unfortunately, but certainly a lot better than just a single run down a groomer.

Jeffrey 112 - You guys were right. It is a better ski for me. It's basically exactly what I was expecting out of the Kartel 98. Stable to higher speeds, handles a variety of turn shapes, stable in both take offs and landings, can both ride over or bust through stuff. Predictable and trustworthy both in carves and "slarves" I think the 191cm would be a beast in a good way. It's probably a little wider than I'd prefer for every day, but it's certainly livable (note: I feel the same way about my Kastle XX110's width). That's just a preference towards the 100mm-ish category than the 110mm-ish category, not a demerit.

I'm not a ski designer, so maybe I'm off on a wild goose chase here... But I think maybe a stiffer torsional flex is what made me prefer the Jeffrey over the Kartel 98. I actually prefer the flex of the Kartel. HVSkier put it well:

I don't know what it is but I've never felt a ski with a smoother pop off of moguls, rollers, drops or park jumps. Also feel great on the landings. .

I'm sure it's really hard to make something torsionally stiffer without a stiffer flex because of engineering reasons. Hopefully that's some constructive input anyway.

Billygoat - I'd like to try it again in non-spring conditions. Holds an edge well at a neutral to rear bias (turning with arches of your feet if that makes sense), but releases nicely (predictably and very quickly) with some pressure from of the toe/tips. Stable and super quick for a big ski. Skis switch way better than i would have expected. I'm not sure RES is for me though. I like my skis to bite when I get on it ("drive tips" or weight forward), and usually back off when I want them to slide or do funky turn shapes. So kind of the opposite of what RES is designed to do. That said, I think they are really good skis and I would recommend them frequently. It's a ski that will make a lot of people ski and feel like a hero. It kind of reminds me of an S7 in the way it makes you feel like a hero, but it's got the backbone to push hard... provided it jibes with your skiing style. I think maybe they would make a good replacement for my wife's Coreupt Sonars for deep days.

Jessie 110 + 100 vs Kartel 98- She liked both Jessies, but felt the 110 was a little wide for the conditions. Preferred the Kartel 98 to the Jessie 100 because they "popped and maneuvered better" and "more fun". "The Jessies were good though" "Seemed like they would do everything well".

It's probably worth noting she is 5'3" and was on the 171cm Kartels. We can't remember the lengths of the Jessies. She normally skis in the 160 range. 168cm S3w are her longest skis.

With several days on my 186 Kartel 98s, I have it figured out and can ski pretty hard on them. I think the earlier model Jeronimos were better suited as an all mountain ski, for someone used to driving the tip though. The big thing with the Kartels is you need to figure out how to keep your weight forward without driving the tips. I'm really happy with it so far, but can understand how it is not for everyone. Detune the rocker sections with a file before skiing.

That's a good breakdown. Makes me wish I hadn't waited too long to buy the Jeronimos!

[HVskier]

I have and use both the 191 BG and the 191 caylor. So it can be done.

Where are you mounted?
Where is Xavier D mounted?

mounted on the line...which leads me to ask what does the line measure out to?

I've gotten to ski my bg's inbounds for only a couple of hours in the past 2.5 or so months and they beat the shit out of me. Not sure if I just wasn't feeling it that day, tough snow conditions or the difference in style between the BG and Kartel. Probably all three, but I also had to move the mount back 6mm before that day.

[XavierD]

Where is Xavier D mounted?

everything I own is on the line

[shroom]

a gambling man, nice.

[TahoeJ]

TexasGortex - did you just compare the BG's to an S7? Thems fightin' words, take that shit back. ;-)

Never thought I'd see my favorite skis compared to Rossi's.

[TexasGortex]

Only barely!

They aren't all that similar in skiing charicteristics, just that they are both easy to ski and make people feel like a boss. The S7 lacks the backbone of the BG, it was a poorly worded sentence.

[Pudge.]

Tex I am not sure how you found the wider ski to be torsionally stiffer than the narrower given the same exact construction.

Did you try the K106 or only the K98? Maybe your battle is with the turn shapes and going from elliptical sidecut to bi-radius. On paper, along with the waist and slightly larger radius for the J114, that's one of the few differences. I'll note I only have the K106 and J114 to draw comparisons

[TexasGortex]

I didn't catch the sidecut type difference. You may be right. Elliptical sidecut might explain why other people say don't drive the tips.

Only skied the 98.

The torsional stiffness was just an idea. I was told the Jeffrey is more torsionlly stiff at the demo day. It's got a stiffer flex longitudinally, so it seemed reasonable to me.

I'm totally cool with the ski not working for me. The why is under my skin a bit. I like figuring out problems and knowing stuff. Would be helpful for future ski buying too.

[iggyskier]

They just discounted all their remaining 14/15 skis on line... 186 Wren 102s are already sold out (fuck me)...!

If anyone is interested in the longer Wren size, we do now have (1) 186cm Wren 102 and (1) Wren 112 in stock.

Also, for those on the East Coast, we will be doing a public demo next Sunday at Magic Mountain. We'll be at Loveland as well.

[derivative666]

Oh the temptations Wren/Magic. Need to figure out how to swing both. Magic is my favorite east coast mountain.

[SupreChicken]

Oh the temptations Wren/Magic. Need to figure out how to swing both. Magic is my favorite east coast mountain.

+1. Wish I had gotten to ski it this year.

[MarcusBrody]

I got on the Wren 102 at the second Magic demo day and was very impressed. It was a groomers/refrozen groomer day for the most part, but the Wren held extremely well and definitely gave that railroad track feel when put on edge. I didn't get it into any tight stuff, but it seemed quick enough going edge to edge. Certainly for being a fairly wide ski for the conditions.

What impressed me most was the evenness of the flex. It wasn't the super stiff rocketship that I was expecting given my mental associations with the Wrenegade name. Just a nice medium maybe medium stiff flex (I don't have any super soft skis to compare it too). I'm not sure I could bend the ski into really small carved turns without any skidding, but it wasn't hard to bend it into sub-natural radius turns at all. Yet it felt stable at any speed I felt comfortable going.

It wasn't quite as damp as it might have been on some of the skied up/refrozen groomers, but I'm not sure that much short of a metal laminate GS ski or m103 would really have felt smooth carving through that stuff at speed. I wanted to see how the Wren 112 felt, but I didn't get a chance to take them out.

I wish I would have gotten to take them into some tighter stuff/bumps, but overall I got the feeling that I would be happy to have the Wren 102s as a daily driver on the East Coast (well at least at Magic). I was rather surprised how much I liked them given the conditions. They actually felt pretty similar to a slightly longer radius version of my Head Rock'n'Rolls (which no one bought, but which I love) in their middle of the road but confidence inspiring flex and general all around competence. If I was looking to replace those skis, I'd be giving these skis a long hard look. If I was going to own only one ski, I'd be giving them an even harder look as I imagine the width gives them a bit of extra float in comparison to the ~95mm skis on the market that I generally think of as ideal Magic do everything skis.

I also got out of the 186 Billy Goats. I mainly wanted to compare them to my 2nd Gen (pre-RES) version of the same ski. I liked them well enough and they were probably a bit smoother in carving turns, but I still didn't feel like I was particularly able to set an edge and bend them into different size turns like I could the Wren. I wouldn't ever choose my BGs though for a day like I was trying them on, though, so the fact that they aren't a particularly exciting carving ski doesn't really mean much.

[tanoleg]

Wow, I would assume that BG in 186 are gone from demo sales?

[iggyskier]

Wow, I would assume that BG in 186 are gone from demo sales?

Yeah they are gone. We have about 6-7 pairs of demo skis left. They should go up in Gear Swap next day or so.

[shafty85]

Was there ever an update regarding the steeple weights? The website still lists the originial weights, but it was mentioned that the production version would likely be lighter due to materials being unavailable for the show skis. Did that reduction in weight wind up happening/being possible, or is the listed weight the final number? Strongly considering a Steeple 102 as a spring touring/resort non-pow day ski.

[XavierD]

Steeple 102 weights are listed on the evo weight chart.