2014/2015 ON3P Skis (Official Thread) - Discussion and Lust

[Bobcat Sig]

Nope, that is different.

PT, what's the latest on the Steeple 112 weights? I know you were going to check with the crew and report back. I'd really like a pair of 184s to come in at around 8bls or less...

[CaliBrit]

An unfortunate hole conflict will force me 1cm forward or back from the line on my BGs from 12/13. I'm leaning towards back. Anyone have experience? 176 tour layup, tour setup.

FWD

[iggyskier]

PT, what's the latest on the Steeple 112 weights? I know you were going to check with the crew and report back. I'd really like a pair of 184s to come in at around 8bls or less...

Yeah, sub 4 lbs/ski (1814 grams/ski) with thick bases & edges, full length sidewalls, 100% bamboo core, and a carbon/glass hybrid layup just isn't going to happen. The pairs we built in January came in around 2250 grams/ski, so the change to a different bamboo isn't going to come close to making up that different.

We've only had a few pairs come all the way through finishing thus far and they are coming in around 2120 grams/ski (184cm) and 2000 grams/ski (174cm), which is about what I expected considering all we changed was the bamboo. Really small sample set thus far, though, so maybe we see it shift slightly either way.

For what it is worth, our priority is still durability and the ride down, so until we are willing to cut the base & edge thickness back to what everyone else is using, go to a CAP or wood sidewall, and move away from a 100% bamboo core, we just won't get there. That ski also won't ski like an ON3P, so again, not our focus. We'll start testing full carbon skis this year, to see if we find something we like, but we like how our skis ride and maintaining those characteristics is paramount in all of our ski development. Lots of companies out there are trying to make the lightest ski they can. Our focus for the tour/steeple line is a lighter version of an ON3P ski, which still places emphasis on durability and the feel of the ski. If sub 8 lbs/pair is really your focus, lots of options out there.

[iggyskier]

Any chance of demos coming through Montana? Pretty please?

Yes we will definitely be in Montana again this year. Big Sky for sure. Not sure besides that, but the demo tour is currently in planning and we will be running our factory fleet all over the western US from December through April along with a smaller fleet in CO and in the NE after SIA.

An unfortunate hole conflict will force me 1cm forward or back from the line on my BGs from 12/13. I'm leaning towards back. Anyone have experience? 176 tour layup, tour setup.

How big are you?

[auvgeek]

Yeah, sub 4 lbs/ski (1814 grams/ski) with thick bases & edges, full length sidewalls, 100% bamboo core, and a carbon/glass hybrid layup just isn't going to happen. The pairs we built in January came in around 2250 grams/ski, so the change to a different bamboo isn't going to come close to making up that different.

We've only had a few pairs come all the way through finishing thus far and they are coming in around 2120 grams/ski (184cm) and 2000 grams/ski (174cm), which is about what I expected considering all we changed was the bamboo. Really small sample set thus far, though, so maybe we see it shift slightly either way.

For what it is worth, our priority is still durability and the ride down, so until we are willing to cut the base & edge thickness back to what everyone else is using, go to a CAP or wood sidewall, and move away from a 100% bamboo core, we just won't get there. That ski also won't ski like an ON3P, so again, not our focus. We'll start testing full carbon skis this year, to see if we find something we like, but we like how our skis ride and maintaining those characteristics is paramount in all of our ski development. Lots of companies out there are trying to make the lightest ski they can. Our focus for the tour/steeple line is a lighter version of an ON3P ski, which still places emphasis on durability and the feel of the ski. If sub 8 lbs/pair is really your focus, lots of options out there.

Well said, Scott. I'm stoked to hear you guys staying loyal to the feel of your inbounds skis through the touring line. I'm also really excited to know what a full carbon ON3P would ski like!

[Bobcat Sig]

Yeah, sub 4 lbs/ski (1814 grams/ski) with thick bases & edges, full length sidewalls, 100% bamboo core, and a carbon/glass hybrid layup just isn't going to happen. The pairs we built in January came in around 2250 grams/ski, so the change to a different bamboo isn't going to come close to making up that different.

We've only had a few pairs come all the way through finishing thus far and they are coming in around 2120 grams/ski (184cm) and 2000 grams/ski (174cm), which is about what I expected considering all we changed was the bamboo. Really small sample set thus far, though, so maybe we see it shift slightly either way.

For what it is worth, our priority is still durability and the ride down, so until we are willing to cut the base & edge thickness back to what everyone else is using, go to a CAP or wood sidewall, and move away from a 100% bamboo core, we just won't get there. That ski also won't ski like an ON3P, so again, not our focus. We'll start testing full carbon skis this year, to see if we find something we like, but we like how our skis ride and maintaining those characteristics is paramount in all of our ski development. Lots of companies out there are trying to make the lightest ski they can. Our focus for the tour/steeple line is a lighter version of an ON3P ski, which still places emphasis on durability and the feel of the ski. If sub 8 lbs/pair is really your focus, lots of options out there.

I knew you were going to say that. Thanks for the input, nonetheless.
No worries. Steeples are still very much in consideration. As are a pari of Billy Goats.

[PowTron]

I knew you were going to say that. Thanks for the input, nonetheless.
No worries. Steeples are still very much in consideration. As are a pari of Billy Goats.

Good to hear! I stand by my statement of not being disappointed. The Steeple really impressed all of us in house, as well as almost everyone who tried them at various demos last season.

[SupreChicken]

Man, maybe it was because I was just breaking in my own pair of 191 billy goats, maybe it was because I rode them inbounds on variable snow, but I just did not like the steeple 112 189 at all. Would need more runs in different conditions, but I was all too happy to get back on my BG.

To anyone in the thread wondering: should I get a pair of billy goats - yes, definitely, why haven't you pulled that trigger yet. I actually like them better on groomers at speed than the bibby. The caylor bibby comparison makes sense, but that rocker length feels noticeably longer in the caylor. Takes me longer to shut the caylor down on firm snow. They were a little easier in trees and a little worse on firm than the bibby. I also really notice a difference in the smoothness of the flex between the bibby and either the caylor or BG. The on3p flex is just...velvet. It feels perfect. The companies with offerings that I find in a similar class: Folsom, praxis. I think dps and pm gear are making world class products, but they aren't as buttery on the snow as the others. Same with moment. Don't know why that is...just what I've experienced. The praxis I refer to tend to be Medium stiff.

I keep dreaming of a 186 BG with beasts to complement my 191 with p18s...for no reason other than gear lust.

It's that good.

[çayzi]

The companies with offerings that I find in a similar class: Folsom, praxis. I think dps and pm gear are making world class products, but they aren't as buttery on the snow as the others. Same with moment.

what about Moment? In same "class" as praxis or folsom you are trying to say?

Take care.

[division.bell]

I keep dreaming of a 186 BG with beasts to complement my 191 with p18s...for no reason other than gear lust.

It's that good.

Agreed.

My 186 veneer BG Tours don't have Beasts (they have Adrenalin's), but they do complement my 191 BG's with FKS180's beautifully.

[The SMP]

FWD

Back. Easier kick turns and better float on a short ski.

How big are you?

I was planning back since I only really tour for pow. Not a big fan of needing to ski in the backseat everytime I'm out.

I'm 5'8" 155 without gear.

[SupreChicken]

I just don't personally like the on snow feel of moments as much as on3p, Folsom, praxis

[PowTron]

Man, maybe it was because I was just breaking in my own pair of 191 billy goats, maybe it was because I rode them inbounds on variable snow, but I just did not like the steeple 112 189 at all. Would need more runs in different conditions, but I was all too happy to get back on my BG.

I actually feel the same about this ski, but I know it is a preference for me...if you are using it to tour for powder, or are under 185lbs or so, the Steeple is a great choice. I really like it in soft, untouched snow and the just chopped snow. If it starts to get really cut up, post-pow refrozen, etc I prefer the BG for sure. In my opinion this is the difference between our tour layup and the traditional, more beefy layup.

Both work great, but heavy and super aggressive guys will still probably prefer the traditional ON3P layup. OR, I am just making excuses for weighing 200 lbs

[SupreChicken]

I dunno. I weigh 165. That flex on the std layup is just so dialed for me. I wish there was a 105-110 underfoot std layup BG shape. I'd use that for a park ski preferentially to the kartel. Admittedly, I suck at riding switch...

[SupreChicken]

Agreed.

My 186 veneer BG Tours don't have Beasts (they have Adrenalin's), but they do complement my 191 BG's with FKS180's beautifully.

When you have to sell those, I will call a tentative and flakey dibs

[shroom]

I dunno. I weigh 165. That flex on the std layup is just so dialed for me. I wish there was a 105-110 underfoot std layup BG shape. I'd use that for a park ski preferentially to the kartel. Admittedly, I suck at riding switch...

haha. you really gotta get off this "pintail in the park" campaign. goober

[PowTron]

Colorado folks:

I'll be doing a demo this upcoming weekend (Sunday 11/16) at Loveland...small version of our demo fleet with skis tailored to our current conditions, but if you haven't had a chance to try this year's product and need to get on them, here is your first chance of the season.

Hope to see some of you up there!

[butterscotch]

Yes we will definitely be in Montana again this year. Big Sky for sure. Not sure besides that, but the demo tour is currently in planning and we will be running our factory fleet all over the western US from December through April along with a smaller fleet in CO and in the NE after SIA.

Come to Bridger Bowl, please!

[iggyskier]

Come to Bridger Bowl, please!

We will be at Big Sky for sure. We will try to do Bridger as well. It has been on our list for awhile, but the last time we tried to it fell apart at the last minute and we just haven't had a chance to make it back. Definitely on our list though. Hopefully we can get it done this year.

[HVskier]

Looking for some verification on Kartel 106 sizing....I demoed a pair of 186 at beartooth and loved them but I'm wondering if the 181 would serve me better. I couldn't get my hands on both lengths at the demo. They felt surprisingly quick in the longer length but a buddy demoed the 176 and was surprised with how stable they were in the shorter length. I'm about 6' 150# and don't feel like I need to be on the longest length in the range. I have 186 BG's and my usual daily driver length is around 180 with either full camber or tip rocker. They will be my daily all-mountain ski in Jackson on all but the deeper days, with a bit of park mixed in.

[racesla]

We will be at Big Sky for sure. We will try to do Bridger as well. It has been on our list for awhile, but the last time we tried to it fell apart at the last minute and we just haven't had a chance to make it back. Definitely on our list though. Hopefully we can get it done this year.

Please please come to Discovery. I'll put your crew up at my bar & inn (Harp Pub) in Anaconda. Serve you copious amounts of tasty MT brew.

[shafty85]

We will be at Big Sky for sure. We will try to do Bridger as well. It has been on our list for awhile, but the last time we tried to it fell apart at the last minute and we just haven't had a chance to make it back. Definitely on our list though. Hopefully we can get it done this year.

Do you ever make it to the Canuckistan to show off your goods?

[shafty85]

I just don't personally like the on snow feel of moments as much as on3p, Folsom, praxis

Where would you put 4frnt in this - specifically the Ren or Hoji?

[auvgeek]

^^Ren feels like an ON3P to me. Hoji less damp, IMO.

[SupreChicken]

The on snow feel of the Ren is phenomenal. Similar to on3p, but a just the slightest bit plankier and a little (splitting hairs here) more demanding. I have std 191 billy goats. Auvgeek's wood grains are plankier than the Ren. Mine are less so. I haven't skied the hoji. The issue I had with the Ren was the narrow balance point. I like to drive skis and ski from my shins, rather than from the ball of my foot. The rens don't cooperate so well when you try to boss them around from your shin. I also can't seem to recover them on a deep day if I happen to stuff an edge under the snow. For my style, a hint of camber goes a long way.