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Thread: Black diamond quadrant/prime
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02-06-2014, 11:47 PM #1
Black diamond quadrant/prime
I hate asking for gear recommendations, but I think I need this one.
I'm skiing scarpa magics (lasers, got a deal on 26.5s and didn't care that they're the girly model) on my dynafit/charger set up. I've gone back and forth with indecisiveness on how to improve my current set up, and it's not gonna be easy to find the parts to appropriately mod the boots. So I think I'm gonna stop being cheap and buy a new pair of boots that's better for what I need.
Here's the story: the magics are way too flexy. The tour all right. They do not feel confident driving the chargers in anything but mellow pow. I feel like my calves and feet are constantly trying to make up for the boot's lack of power.
I have dukes on 191 BGs that I use with langes for pow days in the resort and backcountry days where the emphasis is less on touring and more on finding techy lines to session (pillows, cliffs etc). So I don't need too much overlap there.
The chargers are my go to backcountry set up. Tours, laps, spring ski mountaineering, general fun in the backcountry and so on. Eventually I'll pick up a skinnier set of skis for longer tours (or put inserts in my kahru guides if I can't sell em, but I digress)
I want a boot that can fully keep up with the ski/bindings. In this case, the TLT speeds will be the weak link. Right now, the boots give way before the bindings ever sketch me out. I'm looking at the black diamond prime right now, but I'm a little hesitant, thinking I don't want to go too light again. Is the prime good enough for what I'm looking for, or would I be better off with the quadrants? The quadrants and primes are on sale, and I liked my bd push telemark boots, so I figured either would be a good choice. I'm not opposed to another boot, like the maestrale or the LS spectre.
I've read the reviews and such, but am having a difficult time figuring out exactly how good each boot is downhill and what the limits on each are. Thanks in advance.
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02-07-2014, 12:34 AM #2
Height, weight, skiing style? What else have you skied and liked? Where do you ski? Do you ski inbounds? If so, what's your setup?
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02-07-2014, 02:12 AM #3
Quadrant is stiffer, so i'd go with that.
But why limit to BD? Better buy a boot you really like (and fit well). Quadrants are wiiiide btw.
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02-07-2014, 09:13 AM #4
Quadrants have a bad reputation for performance. https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-suck-that-bad
Prime is basically the same boot with fewer buckles, IIRC.
There are better lightweight tech touring boots out there.
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02-07-2014, 09:22 AM #5
I started on the Lazers quite a few years ago and have changed boots a number of times over the past few years. When my bought my current boot, the Vulcan, I found some end of year close outs that were too good to pass up. Prior to that, I had some of the first Factors and I really liked how they toured and skied. I tried the Quadrants at that time and felt that they toured better than the Factors, but skied worse. Bigger toe box and not as stiff. My guess is that you'd be excited about the stiffness and walk mode of either boot for a little while, but they would eventually be your limiting factor again.
My recommendation would be to buy as light and stiff a boot as you can afford that fits your foot well (Maestrale RS, Spectre, Mercury, Vulcan, etc.) and think of it as an investment. You'll be happier for much longer.
Seth
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02-07-2014, 09:37 AM #6Registered User
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what kinda foot have you got ?
Go for the boot that will fit your kind of foot, personaly I think of the BD's as a last resort for people with wide/high volume hobbit-like feet that won't fit into any other boot BUT if you can fit a lazer WELL I would try the maestrale RS cuz it uses real tech fittings which Scarpa buys from Dynafit, its pretty stiff, its light, lots of ROM, it has an intuition liner ... a great deal IF it fits YOU
The Maestrale or it would have been the GEA for my small feet didn't fit SO I had to buy the mercury and a power wrap linerLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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02-07-2014, 10:57 AM #7
Why limit to bd? I wasn't, but found a great sale on them haha. Just clinging to being a cheap bastard.
I'm 5'10 160ish if I've eaten. My federate strange - low volume but "square". So they're usually large in the toe box laterally but looser on top, and typically loose in the heel. I have fairly large calves but I'm no hulk.
I ski inbounds with langes on 171 Rossi scratch bc and 191 billy goats. I ski steamboat, snowy range (near laramie), occasionally Loveland and monarch and the rest of the co resorts. My time is mostly spent at snowy range or in the backcountry. I tour in the snowies and at Cameron pass, and occasionally rabbit ears and berthoud and vail pass, plus some others here and there. I have a very mixed ski style - I like to do long and difficult tours with a dose of mountaineering involved, when I ski powder I try to be light and smooth, but I also like going out and charging and have been told I ski aggressively. I'm not as smooth on skis as I am a bike, but I'm getting there. I really enjoy technical lines (eg steep trees and pillows, right couloirs, anything tight and tough to pick a line), and am not much for big open bowls/faces, but of course I'll ski them if given the chance. I honestly think I would be happy with a touring boot on the burlier side that can still perform on long tours and ski mountaineering terrain; basically not an alpine boot with tech fittings.
Does that help? If the BDs are not so hot, I will probably try to find a maestrale (standard or rs) or a spectre. How do those sound?
Thanks
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02-07-2014, 11:40 AM #8Registered User
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Ever noticed the standard thing on gear forum is for Buddy to buy a shiny looking boot cheap usually on-line, spend mo money at his local boot fitter but the boot never really works cuz its the rong boot so he sells the boot on gearswap and repeats the exact same process the next year, sure Buddy got a good deal BUT I bet by the time buddy eventually finds THE boot entirely by accident he has spent more $ than if he paid a good bootfitter list ... and he could have skipped all that pain ?
if you want a burly touring boot as opposed to a alpine boot with Tech fittings I would try the Maestrale RS or Mercury and BTW the number of buckles means nothing nowdays in how stiff a boot is, the new AT boots are a big leap over what was available 5 yrs ago, yesterday at a whole bunch of degrees minus zero on rock hard snow & groomers I was driving my new lotus 120's with the 3 buckle mercury no problemLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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02-07-2014, 01:07 PM #9
I got a pair of new in box Factor 110's with both sets of soles Tech/Din/ for sale for $225 shipped. 26.5
Beware all the BD touring boots I've seen for cheap are 2011 models with the old shitty liner.
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02-07-2014, 01:51 PM #10Registered User
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It's a reason the Quadrants are on sale.. First, they claim to have a flex of 120. They are about 85-90. Second, when used on my plum guides with the heelpads, the heel of the boot barely touches the pad. (Ramp angle of binding dont match the boot. (Ithink)). When using the dynafit titan, it fits perfectly.
If you can get a hold of the spectre, go for it. Better and cheaper than the maestrale rs.
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02-07-2014, 04:47 PM #11
Nah. Speed Classics are tough, will hold you in just fine, my favorite tech binding.
This. Try Maestrale/Maestrale RS, Spectre, One/Merc/Vulc, Scott Cosmos -- go to BDs if and only if one of those don't fit you. You're about to take a huge step up from your Magics.
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02-07-2014, 05:27 PM #12
Thanks guys.
XXX-er, you do have a point. I would love to go to my local boot fitter, if only I had one. Most stuff around laramie is alpine or xc focused. Not a huge selection. Fort Collins has some shops, and obviously I could go down to somewhere like Bent Gate.
Mammon, I love the bindings. They haven't failed me at all. What I'm saying is I WANT them to be the weakest link; it sucks when the ski/binding combo is dialed and your boots can't keep up. I'd rather tour in my Langes at the moment, because the magics are starting to really bother me.
Big Steve, thanks for the advice. I'll stay away from the BDs. The factors are decent though, right? If not a little burlier than what I want
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02-07-2014, 06:00 PM #13Registered User
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Consider the $$$ you spend every year TO go skiing, take the amount you would save being a cheap fuck, amortise it per day over the life of the boot, it probably amounts to a latte per day and don't forget ...you feet don't hurt
A ski vaca somewhere there are really great boot fitters is a good strategy, I got my last alpine boots slope side in whistler at the olympics and that worked well cuz if they didn't fit I could just ski in
I got buds who leave their lazers in walk mode cuz they say they can't tell the difference, if there is a quantum leap over a 5 yr old AT compared to whats available now so you will be jumping like 2 quantum leaps over the magic's (wtf that is?) in buying one of the newest AT boots
Check the weight on the factors, they are pretty fucking heavy compared to a maestrale RS/Mercury/Cosmo and all the BD BOA liners pretty much suck ...quit being a cheap fuck and man upLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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02-07-2014, 06:05 PM #14trenchman
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quadrants.
b.
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02-07-2014, 08:09 PM #15
Fuck. You're right. I'm a college student without a job til closer to summer, so it's gonna be tough to pay full price. I suppose I'll do what I can..... "Hello, temp labor office?"
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02-08-2014, 12:32 AM #16
Yes. Thank god. One of the very few options for us hobbit feet wielders.
There is absolutely no performance probs with quadrants. They do just fine going uphill and ski very well downhill...
If they fit...
True, nowadays there are better boots for either going up or down. And even some boots that do both better.
But, for us small and wide feet, it does not help us that TLT 5 or 6 is sitting on the shelf if we cant cram
our feet in the damn boot.
This.
And as iceclimber said, forget the BDs liners. You can throw them straight into trash and replace with intuitions.
Disgraceful how BD even bothered with the liners in the first place..
Otherwise the boots ski and tour well.
Cyborg, buy boots that fit YOU. Hell, make a bus trip to someplace that has a good boot selection. Otherwise it will probably end in a tragedy..
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
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