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  1. #26
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    Unless you have a full basement or garage to convert a small overhanging wall is not going to help your daughter get stronger unless you make it a campus wall.

    You would be better off buying her a gym membership and focusing on lifting weights that help her climb for endurance.

    Climbing plastic is wrought with injuries due to going overboard with small holds and tweaking finger strength. It's kinda like all the kids ramping up their DIN numbers, hucking hudge, then spending the next few seasons out with torn ACL's.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mud View Post
    Unless you have a full basement or garage to convert a small overhanging wall is not going to help your daughter get stronger unless you make it a campus wall.

    You would be better off buying her a gym membership and focusing on lifting weights that help her climb for endurance.

    Climbing plastic is wrought with injuries due to going overboard with small holds and tweaking finger strength. It's kinda like all the kids ramping up their DIN numbers, hucking hudge, then spending the next few seasons out with torn ACL's.
    This is nearly totally wrong.

    1. Nothing trains climbing like climbing. There is very little crossover benefit from non climbing exercises (beyond basic fitness) until you reach the elite level.

    2. Nothing in climbing causes more injuries than campusing (and bachar ladders.)

    3. If you put up big open handed holds and mostly avoid crimpy holds, you will keep tendon injuries to a minimum.

    4. The person most likely to get hurt will be OP trying to send the problems his daughter is floating.
    In with the 9.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by berko View Post
    ... 4. The person most likely to get hurt will be OP trying to send the problems his daughter is floating.
    Not for nothing, and I don't even know why really, but this very sentence sums up my hatred for climbing. I'm sorry climbers, I'm sure (like road biking and running and swimming and triathlons) that your chosen hobby is very interesting, but the vernacular is nearly intolerable.
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by berko View Post
    4. The person most likely to get hurt will be OP trying to send the problems his daughter is floating.
    Quote Originally Posted by jfost View Post
    Not for nothing, and I don't even know why really, but this very sentence sums up my hatred for climbing. I'm sorry climbers, I'm sure (like road biking and running and swimming and triathlons) that your chosen hobby is very interesting, but the vernacular is nearly intolerable.
    Yeah, not like skiing where we only use terms in the manner approved by the OED, right?

    berko, you're dead on. She has been climbing for all of six months and she kicks my ass. It is largely the power-weight ratio, I know. And although I can still solve technical problems for her (she still does not understand, for instance, why a knee drop works, and therefore doesn't think to try one), she moves with a flowing grace I have just never had and never will have on rock. I've got a few mor eyears to outski her, and to outride her on MTB (but not on road where she has endless endurance), but watching her climb is a big part of why I want to build this thing.

    Also, mud, we already have a membership at one gym with a half-decent wall. But going to a gym, alone, to boulder, isn't much fun for a self-conscious, adolescent girl. Strength training for 12-year-olds is fraught with just as much risk of injury as climbing. What she needs is time to practice technique.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by berko View Post
    This is nearly totally wrong.

    1. Nothing trains climbing like climbing. There is very little crossover benefit from non climbing exercises (beyond basic fitness) until you reach the elite level.

    2. Nothing in climbing causes more injuries than campusing (and bachar ladders.)

    3. If you put up big open handed holds and mostly avoid crimpy holds, you will keep tendon injuries to a minimum.

    4. The person most likely to get hurt will be OP trying to send the problems his daughter is floating.
    Just speaking from experience. YMMV. There are several exercises that can increase finger, forearm, and shoulder strength. I got a lot stronger hitting the weights then going to the climbing gym.

    One of my partners who spends 6 months of the year on a boat in AK lifts weights, she can float 5.13 offwidths, so yeah I think lifting weights works just fine for climbing. I wont go climbing for months and as long as I keep up my gym routine I can climb the same grades I did when I climbed everyday.

    Some good stuff here;
    http://www.climbstrong.com/articles/20130112_2

    Mark Twight knows a little about climbing. Good info but you gotta pay.
    http://www.gymjones.com/training/log/
    Last edited by mud; 02-04-2014 at 09:32 AM.

  6. #31
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    This is my project for the spring so I thought I'd add on. Have a wall in my barn I was going to use, was only going to use a bay, between posts 9 feet on centre, but could use most of two bays toward door. I think I have enough 3/4" ply and T nuts for one bay plus. So any comments fire away .
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    Last edited by DougW; 02-04-2014 at 09:52 AM.
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mud View Post
    Just speaking from experience. YMMV. There are several exercises that can increase finger, forearm, and shoulder strength. I got a lot stronger hitting the weights then going to the climbing gym.

    One of my partners who spends 6 months of the year on a boat in AK lifts weights, she can float 5.13 offwidths, so yeah I think lifting weights works just fine for climbing. I wont go climbing for months and as long as I keep up my gym routine I can climb the same grades I did when I climbed everyday.
    the danger with gym weights is muscles strengthen faster than tendons, esp for people newer to climbing. I know lots of people that had been climbing for ~2yrs (lots of gym climbing etc) that popped tendons etc. When/where I started climbing there were no gyms & not much sport climbing, so my first few years of climbing was working through easy trad stuff. I never hurt my fingers & didn't know many there that did.

    the short version, if you're lifting weights then at least have a hangboard to work on contact strength also.

    As said earlier, big open hand holds are the friendliest for happy fingers, but big open hand hold need steep walls otherwise its too easy.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    Yeah, not like skiing where we only use terms in the manner approved by the OED, right? ....
    right, but I actually LIKE skiing - so it is waaaaay different.
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mud View Post
    Just speaking from experience. YMMV. There are several exercises that can increase finger, forearm, and shoulder strength. I got a lot stronger hitting the weights then going to the climbing gym.

    One of my partners who spends 6 months of the year on a boat in AK lifts weights, she can float 5.13 offwidths, so yeah I think lifting weights works just fine for climbing. I wont go climbing for months and as long as I keep up my gym routine I can climb the same grades I did when I climbed everyday.

    Some good stuff here;
    http://www.climbstrong.com/articles/20130112_2

    Mark Twight knows a little about climbing. Good info but you gotta pay.
    http://www.gymjones.com/training/log/
    Good links mud! Twight has one of the stronger 'heads' in the climbing world so he has to train hella to get his body up to his level.
    I did the 'workout from hell' in my early 90's climbing days and went from a .10/sport, 9/trad(both in the Valley) to .12+/sport, 11/trad(except offwidth) after completing 2 rounds of the phases. I should also note that I stretched a fair bit more too during this time as my muscles kinda demanded it. This made my Tuolumne/Valley/HighSierra adventures hella more fun b/c I had so many more options. I stayed healthy as well.

    The workout from hell link:

    http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/y.../doc/TWFH.html



    Although, now I warm up on the plastic before hitting the weights and balance games. Considering hitting 'hell' again if I think I'll climb this summer. Partners up here are hard to come by. Yeah, Shanti is an old bud of mine as well and what she is doing is nothing short of amazing in the climbing world. Offwidth climbing is the 'burley' form of climbing. I think she also has the energy of a medium sized Nuke plant and that can't hurt!
    Squeezin' a little more every other day

  10. #35
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    It hurts just to read that workout from hell. 3 sets, 30 reps/set, 4 exercises per muscle group, 2 groups per workout. Plus whatever cardio you choose, plus stretching so you don't end up a Quasimoto. I only wish I had that kind of discipline.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    It hurts just to read that workout from hell. 3 sets, 30 reps/set, 4 exercises per muscle group, 2 groups per workout. Plus whatever cardio you choose, plus stretching so you don't end up a Quasimoto. I only wish I had that kind of discipline.
    I hear you, I had it in my 20's for the rock for sure. I lived ~1 hr from the Valley or the Meadows. I had goals/projects and the safest thing to do was to bring myself up to the task. Getting the head is easier than the body! ha! I use a my own IceCreamWorkoutFromHell routine these days. I just never do any weight that is heavy enough for me to not be able to get 20 reps. I do my stuff at the gym here at the U. so I have all the light weights to myself. I think your idea of a wall is good and you can do a lot of statics and micro engram training. Do it! What have you got to lose? Time you'd be doing what?!
    Squeezin' a little more every other day

  12. #37
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    I was going to put a climbing wall in the cathedral-ceilinged foyer of a house I was renting in Homer....got all the hand-holds all picked out and the stud-finder going but decided I should ask the owner first. He also didn't quite like my idea of putting in a brass batman pole down to the kitchen from the second floor alcove.

    Peoples got no imagination these days!!


    But I found a great set of climbing trees in the backyard...which is more fun than any climbing wall and gives you just as good a workout...ask any kid!
    "The reason death sticks so closely to life isn't biological necessity - it's envy. Life is so beautiful that death has fallen in love with it; a jealous, possesive love that grabs at what it can." by Yann Martel from Life of Pi



    Posted by DJSapp:
    "Squirrels are rats with good PR."

  13. #38
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    ask the one that fell.
    b
    .

  14. #39
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    has anyone floated an offwidth solution to this yet?
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfost View Post
    has anyone floated an offwidth solution to this yet?
    Pamela has.

    You can find some of her 'solutions' here:

    http://pamelashantipack.com/
    Squeezin' a little more every other day

  16. #41
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    learned something:

    ...Off-width cracks are wider than hand cracks, but not wide enough for the legs or upper body to fit inside; this width is the most difficult to master, as it requires movements that can be physically awkward or uncomfortable. ...
    in all seriousness, big respect to climbers... Just something I (obviously) know nothing about!
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfost View Post
    learned something:



    in all seriousness, big respect to climbers... Just something I (obviously) know nothing about!
    It is fun to learn to move over stone! It translates well to other endeavors, especially technical mtb-ing. I can't say I really enjoyed the offwidth but it is a necessary skill if you want to climb the goodies in the Valley. We had a top roping circuit we'd do in the Valley and by the end of it each of us would have blownchunks at least once.
    Squeezin' a little more every other day

  18. #43
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    There's a funny hting happens in all the adventure-like sports. We make and obsessively watch these videos of athletes doing their thing. But those athletes are the best of the best. I just want to be able to confidently lead 5.9 without losing it mentally, without decking (and without having to rely on someone else's bolts). When I was young, the mental part was easy, the knowledge part was hard (and forced me to climb indoors in the days before ubiquitous bolting), and the physical part was just a matter of work. In middle age, the knowledge is mostly there (and can easily be brushed up), the physical part is a matter of a LOT of work, and the mental part is completely freaking me out.

    jfost, we do this stuff solely for the fun and the challenge, and the cool part is that the challenge is always changing. It's just like skiing in that respect, but without lifts. Sadly, also without lodges serving cocktails.

  19. #44
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    I've got a home climbing gym in the garage. The framework came with the house and I just added plywood and holds. Found a few sets of holds on CL and mountain project for cheap. I mainly started with jugs and larger holds to ease into it and keep it fun. Used some smaller holds for feet. I've got four different angles and totally horizontal on the ceiling. One corner and a pretty easy 1.5" hand crack.

    I use it on and off. Right now it's fucking cold and my garage isn't heated, not to mention my wife has piled all kinds of shit in the way. I hope to get back on it when the weather warms up a bit.

    I think it's a fun way to get a little exercise. Better than weights and a treadmill. Weather it helps with climbing... I don't aspire to 5.12 anymore, but it does help with grip strength and stuff for 5.9-10 stuff I want to do.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    ...When I was young, the mental part was easy, the knowledge part was hard (and forced me to climb indoors in the days before ubiquitous bolting), and the physical part was just a matter of work. In middle age, the knowledge is mostly there (and can easily be brushed up), the physical part is a matter of a LOT of work, and the mental part is completely freaking me out.

    jfost, we do this stuff solely for the fun and the challenge, and the cool part is that the challenge is always changing. It's just like skiing in that respect, but without lifts. Sadly, also without lodges serving cocktails.
    yeah, I think that translates perfectly to skiing - esp the mental mindfucking of a tough line - soooooooo much more hesitant than in my previous decade of skiing!

    So if I start a business in Yosemite serving cocktails off of one of those window-washer ledges you think it'd go over well?
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfost View Post
    yeah, I think that translates perfectly to skiing - esp the mental mindfucking of a tough line - soooooooo much more hesitant than in my previous decade of skiing!

    So if I start a business in Yosemite serving cocktails off of one of those window-washer ledges you think it'd go over well?
    Yeah, I'd agree but my skiing[ability] is more on the shitty-hack side so a little mind-fuk here and there is hardly noticable, think truffles on a big mac...

    Just sell your shit at the base and you'll be good. On the wall, you'd be a target for shit bombs. I'd suggest the base of Half Dome or for ElCap, the N. American wall it will save the skinny-leggers an extra bag hump to their route.
    Squeezin' a little more every other day

  22. #47
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    Climbers can't afford cocktails, at least not the climbers in Yosemite. Red Rocks (outside Vegas) offers it all for the entrepreneur: tourists with money, accommodating state and local governments, a well-developed wholesale liquor industry, and burgeoning alcoholism.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    Climbers can't afford cocktails, at least not the climbers in Yosemite. Red Rocks (outside Vegas) offers it all for the entrepreneur: tourists with money, accommodating state and local governments, a well-developed wholesale liquor industry, and burgeoning alcoholism.
    ..But a lil lemon in an OE will make a warm malty bev way palatable! That is a climbers cocktail! We always put some form of citrus in our swill up there. Plus, it is hard to beat the varieties of beer available in large metal cans available in the market in the Valley. Some even have swank handles to clip into the belay for those bitchin night leads. Sapporo was my fave. Not even spendy, at least in the late 80s/early 90's it wasn't.
    Squeezin' a little more every other day

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