DPS boots?

[SiSt]

They're also playing with fire in terms of "game changing boot technology"- too crazy and nobody will trust or be able to afford them. Too similar and now they're talking out their ass about "changing the game".

It's a fine line to walk in an actual marketplace with inherent trust issues.

I became much more interested after hearing the podcast.

There's a lot that makes sense with what is being said about biomechanics and balance.

It certainly gave me some ideas.

[swissiphic]

Had a coupla beers, feel nostalgic about leather tele boots, my old Dynafit tlt 4s's and have some time on my hands...so, feel like typing/ranting.

Whatever the DPS design, I hope they collaborated with/took notes from:

https://skimoves.me/

Listening to the Blisterpodcast, sounds like philosophically the visions are somewhat aligned in terms of freeing the foot to some degree and allowing a more natural motion of some of the individual components of the skier's foot...though the skiersmanifesto focuses more on ski racing foot/boot fit/response and i can imagine DPS is designing a more versatile, backcountry friendly offering.

Some of the design ideas espoused by the skier's manifesto gentleman are a bit foreign to me. For example, I have flat wide feet with reverse sidecut arches and severely pronated feet...there's no way I could ski without the rigid arch support that seems to be severely frowned upon. I can achieve pretty good ball of foot pressure/feel even with my rigid custom orthotics supporting my anemic arch.

I'm old, and old school. Had a tele phase in leather double boots, progressed to leather boots with Lange downhill boot rear cuff ghetto attachment mod...and felt the best sensations on snow yet to be experienced...feeling the kernals of corn under the balls of my feet while the plastic cuffs gave enough lateral and rear support to ski groomers in parallel stance safely or tele stance like a boss. That sensation was limited to corn snow groomers, smooth backcountry or mogul lines for both tele and parallel skiing but it remains engrained as a top 5 skiing moment(s) in my 40 year ski life.

Switching from tele to A.T. after I got too old to drop the knee in breakable crust with a pack on, stuck my feet in Dynafit tlt 4s boots with o.g. intuition liners. They flexed forward like leather hiking boots and snow feel was disappointingly isolated...but obviously control definitely felt light years mo betta than the free heel for parallel...which I still enjoyed in the cow boots due to that amazing mind focusing attention required to stay balanced on edge fore and aft while (trying) to rail groomers and master mellow hippy turns in 30 degree powder without faceplanting...which was actually fun in my 20's. No teeth lost from face to ski tip close encounters of the crud kind...

With the tlts, I had troubles ripping zipper mogul lines without the boots collapsing forward and my ankles cracking in half. In my mind to achieve a good feel of forward flex, a shock absorber system from boot top to top of forefoot of the shell could achieve a mechanically infinitely adjustable, dialed in 'progressive' forward flex...adjustable 'preload' for off the top stiffness/damping and dial in the forward flex stiffness progression curve...wonder if the DPS boot incorporates something like this? In the end, I made the boot work with modding a raichle flexon tongue to stiffen the forward flex; it did the job and mogul lines came back into the terrain option mix, thank christ.

Wuz thinkin' that some of the design parameters could be engineered separately with this type of forward flex control. Eliminate the stiffer plastic of tongue/overlap in lieu of thinner plastic/fabric to seal the boot and engineer carbon rear cuff and rear lower shell to create a rigid torsional/lateral/rear support profile. Lack of stiffer plastic in fore of instep, fold of ankle and lower shin could create a better wrap for support of ankle/cuff area for precise skiing laterally. Have the shock/strut removable at boot top and hinge on top of forefoot boot shell for free forward ankle flex required for ski touring.

For my dollar, for present ski boot tech either downill or A.T., the best feeling turns come from ball of foot pressure triangulated with a snug heel/ankle lock down and shin on tongue progressive, supple boot top continuous pressure. Lateral support is appreciated. Downhill boots aside, for my 185 pounds plus pack, the present incarnation of the Dynafit Vulcan (no tongue, no flex stops) working a quiver of Dynafit binding skis gives me decent pleasure...but that tangible and intangible snow feel sensation thing still ain't there. A bit better with dh binders but still feel a bit isolated.

[Skirotica]

yup......

As more and more companies have moved into AT boot production, what have we seen? A lot of mediocrity, and a steady stream of huge improvements from Scarpa and Dynafit. So if a DPS boot will continue to push Scarpa and Dynafit to greater heights, then by all means bring on the new DPS boots. It would be nice if the new players catch up someday, but I'm just happy there are two companies consistently hitting home runs.

I'd add La Sportiva to that exclusive club.

[djhutch]

. Had a tele phase in leather double boots, progressed to leather boots with Lange downhill boot rear cuff ghetto attachment mod...and felt the best sensations on snow yet to be experienced...feeling the kernals of corn under the balls of my feet while the plastic cuffs gave enough lateral and rear support to ski groomers in parallel stance safely or tele stance like a boss. That sensation was limited to corn snow groomers, smooth backcountry or mogul lines for both tele and parallel skiing but it remains engrained as a top 5 skiing moment(s) in my 40 year ski life.

I ski about 65 days a year - 50 on tele gear and 15 on fixed heel gear and when I heard that podcast I thought that the best way to get bio-mechanical feedback is to use modern tele gear. I prefer the efficiency of AT for huge climbs or traverses but nothing compares to the feedback (and feel and fun) of modern tele boots and NTN bindings. Love my Proclines and Dynafits on the up, hate them on the down - no fun.

Using clipless pedals is slightly more efficient than platforms and sticky rubber shoes but I aint ever going back to clipless for MTB for the same reasons.

I couldn't agree more with Drake's comment that the current norm of downhill ski equipment = "put your foot in a cast and clamp that cast to a ski" (or something like that) is terribly archaic and needs a paradigm shift.

Wayne Wong feels somewhat the same way and wants to see active suspension on skis:

http://www.antongliders.com/

[XavierD]

After listening to the podcast the only thing I took away was Stephen Drake never actually learned to ski which is why he designed 138mm wide skis to ski powder with.

It could also explain why the W112 is such a great dentist ski.

[galibier_numero_un]

After listening to the podcast the only thing I took away was Stephen Drake never actually learned to ski which is why he designed 138mm wide skis to ski powder with.

It could also explain why the W112 is such a great dentist ski.

^^^ With all due respect to his ground-breaking design credentials, there might be something to that ^^^

I also grew up in NYC and learned how to ski "hardpack" in Northern Vermont. I found his statement about not being able to ski ice well to be odd. I took great pride in cutting my teeth on Vermont's "frozen granular". His powder skiing skills may have more to do with athleticism than skill. Yes, he was talking about keeping up with racers, but my sense is that it was more than about the training differential.

The whole "natural foot" thing ... color me skeptical. There is absolutely nothing that's natural about trying to drive a pair of sticks that are latched onto your feet.

I got suckered into the whole minimalist barefoot running thing - trying to get it down for two years (under supervision, no less). All I did was continually hurt myself. I'm not saying that it's not fine for Kenyans and other natural runners, but my bullshit alarm goes off when I hear about universal, natural solutions.

All of this reminds me of the spoof on the Earth Shoe (anyone remember that?). National Lampoon came up with a spoof on it called the Earth Tire - a hexagonal tire claimed to give your car a natural, lifelike bounce:

It sounds as if he's trying to reinvent the leather boot. Imagine if Didier Cuche competed in all of his world cup races (and not just his last one) with this gear:

I get the tactile thing and skiing from your feet. I always thought the Mahre brothers looked like skiing robots - it was all from their boot cuff to their knees.

Of course, I'm open to the evolution of boot design, and if their boot might is a breakthrough, I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed. It certainly can't be as bad has their description which breaks the dial on my bullshit meter.

As far as this tactile/feel thing is concerned, everyone's sensory receptors (and their reactions) are different, and while some might lament a lack of feel in modern gear, I've adapted happily and I'll never go back. I think there's a parallel to cars. There's a certain soulfulness about heel and toeing/double clutching a manual transmission (I totally get that), but I've made peace with paddle shifters that can shift faster than Jim Clark & Jackie Stewart ever could have.

The only downside I see to this evolution is that the pow gets chewed up faster.

... Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

Had a coupla beers, feel nostalgic about leather tele boots, my old Dynafit tlt 4s's and have some time on my hands...so, feel like typing/ranting.

Whatever the DPS design, I hope they collaborated with/took notes from:

https://skimoves.me/

I looked at this. He raises some fascinating points, along with what I feel are some straw-man arguments. All in all however, it's a provocative read and I bookmarked it. Thanks.

... Thom

[kootenayskier]

I'm tired of clamping my feet into plastic casts that barely resemble the shape of my feet. Over 30 years of over 100 days in such boots, and my feet are a deformed mess (tailors bunions, ingrown toe-nails) as a result. I spend the rest of my year in Birkenstocks and Blundstones, and anything that allows more space and natural movement will get my attention. As far as I can tell we're all just enduring the legacy of Sven Coomer's attempt a high performance race boot, and I welcome anyone investing in different thinking.

[XavierD]

Have you tried making those plastic casts more flexible or a more accurate image of your foot?

FWIW, myself and many others already ski with our feet, adjusting weighting and Grip across the footbed. The rigidity of the ski/binding/boot system is what allows these movements to translate to the ski.

[TAFKALVS]

If you can't flex your boots, you're in the wrong boots.

[galibier_numero_un]

I'm tired of clamping my feet into plastic casts that barely resemble the shape of my feet. Over 30 years of over 100 days in such boots, and my feet are a deformed mess (tailors bunions, ingrown toe-nails) as a result. I spend the rest of my year in Birkenstocks and Blundstones, and anything that allows more space and natural movement will get my attention. As far as I can tell we're all just enduring the legacy of Sven Coomer's attempt a high performance race boot, and I welcome anyone investing in different thinking.

This is puzzling for someone with your amount of experience, but blaming Sven is a bit like someone driving a car with underinflated tires, poor wheel alignment and worn out shocks who blames Henry Ford for their car's poor handling.

The only thing I can conclude is that you're in the 99.9th percentile of the population with serious structural issues which were either ignored or poorly treated. Hopefully, the damage you've done can be at least partially mitigated.

... Thom

[swissiphic]

For those who REALLY want to free the foot I recommend this setup. Pretty much attaching the toes of summer flip flops to cross country skis...your feet give the support to the boot, not the other way around.

Ups the ante of challenge of a mellow degree slope....30 is the new 50!

Talk about speed limit of hard charging skis, I got these babies up to 5 miles an hour!

And...faceplants are fun!!!

But the snow feel...the snow feel...feeling the kernals of corn under the balls of my feet...incredible sensory euphoric overload...

I ain't no Didier Cuche but I did my best.

[Toddball]

For those who REALLY want to free the foot I recommend this setup. Pretty much attaching the toes of summer flip flops to cross country skis...your feet give the support to the boot, not the other way around.

I have had a pair of approach skis with Silvretta 404s lying around all winter and have always wanted to make a pair of crampon-compatible flip flops; alas, I don't really want to carve up my Nepals and the free Asolos a friend was going to give me fell through. But, I think this idea still has potential.

[XXX-er]

more canadian content eh?

[turnfarmer]

Been done Swissiphic, probably poorly

https://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...042S_set_bsf_H

[kootenayskier]

This is puzzling for someone with your amount of experience, but blaming Sven is a bit like someone driving a car with underinflated tires, poor wheel alignment and worn out shocks who blames Henry Ford for their car's poor handling.

The only thing I can conclude is that you're in the 99.9th percentile of the population with serious structural issues which were either ignored or poorly treated. Hopefully, the damage you've done can be at least partially mitigated.

... Thom

The toe box fit and and touring ergonomics of my new Salomon S/Lab X-Alp boots are in a different class to anything I’ve used before. I maintain there’s vast opportunity for major improvement in ski boot design, I have no insight into DPS’s direction, but after 45 years of stagnation, I welcome any new thinking.

[#######]

[Skidog]

Looks like the old Salomon sx rear entries.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[skifishbum]

question is if i get these in red
and wax my red lotus pure 3 nano spooned 120's
with the green phantoms wonder wax
will i gits accepted to dental hygenist school?

[mall walker]

so... it's a sportiva sideral

[Skidog]

That shock thingie looks like a failure waiting to happen.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[SiSt]

Are you guys trying to tell me that's not just a botched photoshop job? 😂

Sent from my SM-G900F using TGR Forums mobile app

[Jong Lafitte]

Bwahhahahaha. Yeah, I forget what that big lever on the heel of the boots was supposed to do but funny it wasn’t edited out. That’s a hell of a walk mode switch. Got a dial on it and shit. Woah!


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Fritz]

3 Year’s later.... They better be light and stiff as fuck.

[samthaman]

Looks like the @bicyclepubes Instagram account designed a ski boot

Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app