Rim to Rim to Rim Grand Canyon Hike Beta??

[GoldMember]

Some buddies of mine are planning to hike S. Rim to N. Rim and back over two days this May. They asked if I wanted to go and, being totally ignorant of it I said 'sure'. Now, in looking at some websites, I'm wondering if the two day deal is a good idea. Maybe a S. to N. hike with the shuttle back makes sense? Any input as to what I'm getting myself into? Thanks for any beta.

[Benny Profane]

Some buddies of mine are planning to hike S. Rim to N. Rim and back over two days this May. They asked if I wanted to go and, being totally ignorant of it I said 'sure'. Now, in looking at some websites, I'm wondering if the two day deal is a good idea. Maybe a S. to N. hike with the shuttle back makes sense? Any input as to what I'm getting myself into? Thanks for any beta.

I have a buddy who has done it twice, but not rim to rim in one day. Sounds grueling, both directions, just two days. He hiked down to Phantom Ranch, slept over, then hiked up to the north rim.

Can't get reservations at Phantom Ranch?
Bring a ton of water.

Edit: He says it's possible, but "unapproved". Good luck.

[HansJob]

Are your friends into pain? Along with a ton of water, I'd pack tons of moleskin. That's really pushing it. Call the backcountry office and ask for advice.

[GoldMember]

I have a buddy who has done it twice, but not rim to rim in one day. Sounds grueling, both directions, just two days. He hiked down to Phantom Ranch, slept over, then hiked up to the north rim.

Can't get reservations at Phantom Ranch?
Bring a ton of water.

Edit: He says it's possible, but "unapproved". Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it's not recommended and I suspect with good reason. My buddies didn't try for reservations at Phantom Ranch since the purpose was to do the round-trip in two days.... fucking marathoners...

Are your friends into pain? Along with a ton of water, I'd pack tons of moleskin. That's really pushing it. Call the backcountry office and ask for advice.

Moleskin, check. Water, check. Electrolytes, check. Food, check. Thanks for your response. The backcountry office will tell us it's not recommended so really no need to call. I'm not overly worried about doing the rim to rim in one day. It will take probably 14 hours or so but shouldn't be overly bad. What concerns me is the idea of doing it in reverse the next day. I think that's probably over my limit. I suppose I could see how it goes the first day and make a decision then. I'm just looking for any beta from anyone here who may have done some segments. Thanks for your response.

[cat in january]

1st of May or 31st of May?-big difference. The later, the likelihood of hiking at night to travel in the cool part of the day. Planning for water, maintaining coolness and conditioning are important. Starting and finishing at the North Rim allows sleeping on the warmer South Rim.

But why do the sufferfest? Hike down to the river and spend the night there and then hike out. Enjoy the Canyon. The South Rim has the most options. Check out the shuttle connection for trailhead starts. If you can, boost the length of the trip to 4 or 5 days. Even then you have not really settled in to the Grand Canyon.

[that dude who did that thing]

Your "friends" are inviting you along on their suffer-fest. Like you, I could see doing one day, one way. But the second day return means that every hot spot earned on day one gets shoved back in your boots or shoes and put back to work. Every torn up toenail gets torn up some more. Every overused muscle gets used up again. In addition to water, food and moleskin, bring lots of bodyglide (or just go straight to KY).

[Dantheman]

Some friends and I did N. Rim->S. Rim->N. Rim in a day in late may 2009 so I'll throw in some pennies:

Now, in looking at some websites, I'm wondering if the two day deal is a good idea.

Two days in the canyon is more fun than one day in the canyon and one day on a bus. So in that regard, yes, it is a good idea. But, this is an impossible question to answer without knowing anything about your athletic/endurance background and current state of fitness. Have you done anything of remotely similar difficulty in the past, like a legit backpack trip? Are you in decent shape now? Could you get into shape by May? 46 miles and 10k of climbing in two days is a serious effort for most people, and the last thing you want is to crap out and have get hauled out on a mule.

That said, the two-day option has a couple things going for it.

1. The days are long in May so you could keep the pace pretty relaxed. Depending on when in May you are looking at upwards of 15 hours of daylight. Each way is a 9.5 hour walk at 2.5 mph, so you can go pretty slow and still easily finish between pre-dawn and sunset.

2. You could spend the night at the North Rim lodge and not need to bring any real camping gear. This would keep your load pretty minimal and you could shower, sleep in a bed, and eat like a king at the restaurant that night.

3. You could always puss out and take the bus back if you wake up on the second day and decide you just don't have it in you


Ignore Benny's nonsense about needing to brings tons of water. There is water available available every couple miles. You could probably be fine with a single 1L bottle.

[mobygrape]

can you cross the canyon one day, take a day to chill at the lodge, then head back the 3rd day?
Never done that, but that might be a bit easier on the body, and more fun?

[Tye 1on]

can you cross the canyon one day, take a day to chill at the lodge, then head back the 3rd day?
Never done that, but that might be a bit easier on the body, and more fun?

actually my experience is that the downhill is what toasts the quads, and they are actually worse two days after than the next day.

imho the most fun way to do such a trip is to add some more friends and have half the group hike N to S, the other half S to N, meet/camp/party at Phantom and swap keys...

but i'm far from a fkn marathoner...

[GoldMember]

Some friends and I did N. Rim->S. Rim->N. Rim in a day in late may 2009 so I'll throw in some pennies:



Two days in the canyon is more fun than one day in the canyon and one day on a bus. So in that regard, yes, it is a good idea. But, this is an impossible question to answer without knowing anything about your athletic/endurance background and current state of fitness. Have you done anything of remotely similar difficulty in the past, like a legit backpack trip? Are you in decent shape now? Could you get into shape by May? 46 miles and 10k of climbing in two days is a serious effort for most people, and the last thing you want is to crap out and have get hauled out on a mule.

That said, the two-day option has a couple things going for it.

1. The days are long in May so you could keep the pace pretty relaxed. Depending on when in May you are looking at upwards of 15 hours of daylight. Each way is a 9.5 hour walk at 2.5 mph, so you can go pretty slow and still easily finish between pre-dawn and sunset.

2. You could spend the night at the North Rim lodge and not need to bring any real camping gear. This would keep your load pretty minimal and you could shower, sleep in a bed, and eat like a king at the restaurant that night.

3. You could always puss out and take the bus back if you wake up on the second day and decide you just don't have it in you


Ignore Benny's nonsense about needing to brings tons of water. There is water available available every couple miles. You could probably be fine with a single 1L bottle.

Okay, this is what I was looking for! You did R2R2R in one day?? Fricking animal. How long did it take you?

As for my trip, here's the summary:

Hiking days are May 20, 21.

They have a reservation at the N. Rim lodge so that's covered.

I'm a fairly experienced hiker. Did an 18 mile, 4,000' vertical day hike last August in Olympic Nat'l Park. This was in addition to other, shorter day hikes before and after.

Have hiked the Alps a fair amount.

Climbed and skied Mt. Adams.

Back-country ski one day per week right now and work out 3-4 days per week currently.

Yes, I knew about the water stations so wasn't too worried about that.

What concerned me most was that most of my hiking has been in cooler mountain regions. The heat and lack of shade issue, along with just the distance and vertical combination is made to sound pretty daunting at various websites. It 's a bit different game. But, that's not unusual. With most hikes I've done, we take about half to two-thirds that sites claim for stated times to allow. That said, I think I'll probably go with the intent to do both days but have the bus-bailout in my back pocket in case I'm not up to it.

Thanks for your input!

[Beaver]

So..... you and some buddies are into rimming?

[GoldMember]

^^ heh....easy....

[Dantheman]

actually my experience is that the downhill is what toasts the quads, and they are actually worse two days after than the next day.

Yup. Downhill = eccentric loading = DOMS

What concerned me most was that most of my hiking has been in cooler mountain regions. The heat and lack of shade issue, along with just the distance and vertical combination is made to sound pretty daunting at various websites. It 's a bit different game.

The heat is a crapshoot, on those dates it could be 95 at the river or 75. It will probably somewhere in between, but it's highly unlikely it will be truly scorching (100+). Plus, it's really only the mid-day canyon bottom that sees really high temps. It can be downright cold morning/evening at the high elevations, the north rim especially. If you do hit some heat just keep the pace easy and wet yourself down a bit at the water stations.

[cat in january]

What matters most is what shape you are in when you hike as Dantheman spoke to. Second is how well your feet know your shoes. Trails are literally mule trails South to North and Back.

I like a white wide brimmed hat, light, vented long sleeve shirt, shorts, and trail runners. I have never taken an umbrella, but I would not rule it out.

Hint: for the North Rim Lodge-bring a couple gallon zip lock bags, fill them with ice and apply them to your sore leg muscles; alternate with hot showers and some high stepping in place to move the blood. Needless to say, push liquids there. The North Rim is so much nicer than the South Rim and good choice for an overnight. Make reservations and enjoy your meal at the restaurant.

[GoldMember]

What matters most is what shape you are in when you hike as Dantheman spoke to. Second is how well your feet know your shoes. Trails are literally mule trails South to North and Back.

I like a white wide brimmed hat, light, vented long sleeve shirt, shorts, and trail runners. I have never taken an umbrella, but I would not rule it out.

Hint: for the North Rim Lodge-bring a couple gallon zip lock bags, fill them with ice and apply them to your sore leg muscles; alternate with hot showers and some high stepping in place to move the blood. Needless to say, push liquids there. The North Rim is so much nicer than the South Rim and good choice for an overnight. Make reservations and enjoy your meal at the restaurant.

I'm good for shoes. I have a really good hiking boot that I've used for a lot of my hiking that my feet love. I also have some decent hiking shoes that my feet also love. I would likely want to use the boots, though as that's what I've used on the more difficult hikes and they offer better protection for stubbing my toes on rocks, etc.

As for conditioning, I'm not too worried about that as I'm in good shape already and should be better by then. I'm going to step up my conditioning between now and then just to make sure I'm prepared.

Good tip on the ice bags. We already have the reservation at the North Rim lodge so that's covered.

Thanks for the tips!

[MataPaw]

Some buddies of mine are planning to hike S. Rim to N. Rim and back over two days this May. They asked if I wanted to go and, being totally ignorant of it I said 'sure'. Now, in looking at some websites, I'm wondering if the two day deal is a good idea. Maybe a S. to N. hike with the shuttle back makes sense? Any input as to what I'm getting myself into? Thanks for any beta.

A buddy and I hiked from the S. Rim to the N. Rim and took the shuttle back a couple of years ago. Also in May. There was a fair amount of people hiking back from the N. Rim to the S. Rim the next day. People also run it there and back.

It's a bucket list type of thing for me. Make sure to make reservations at the N. Rim early as there is only one place to stay. Also, if you are taking the shuttle reserve early as well because it fills up. Here's the address we used, not sure if it's still good.

Shuttle transportation
a. $80 per person (1/2 is due a month prior by mailing check to Transcanyon
b. Second ½ is due when you board. Only cash or check accepted.
Shuttle PO Box 348 Grand Canyon AZ 86023)

In terms of the hike, it is definitely doable and was fun. Became a bit of a slog towards the end. Level 2 of fun (on that chart that was posted here a while back). Just make sure you have a good pair of boots and lots of water. The views once you start to climb up are pretty wicked.

Leave early in the morning to avoid the sun. To Phantom Ranch is pretty shaded in the morning but after that it is exposed until you start to climb back out. Plenty of water and pack light. I wouldn't even worry about wearing the same thing the next day.

[GoldMember]

^^ Thanks!

[Shredhead]

I ate a bunch of mushrooms, then ran down and back in about 5 hours.
I thought it was easy until we took the shuttle back to our campsite and couldn't stand up at my stop.
The second day would be the tuffy.
I'd recommend at least an 1/8th.

[crashtestdummy]

http://www.cedarandsand.blogspot.com...im-to-rim.html

[Dantheman]

Ignore Benny's nonsense about needing to brings tons of water. There is water available available every couple miles. You could probably be fine with a single 1L bottle.

I just realized I should clarify this. The North Kaibab-Bright Angel route has tons of water stations. South Kaibab, however, has zero water. If South Kaibab is part of the planned route load up with plenty of water before you start that section.

[GoldMember]

http://www.cedarandsand.blogspot.com...im-to-rim.html

Thanks, good read. I hope I'm not that guy.... I hate puking.

I just realized I should clarify this. The North Kaibab-Bright Angel route has tons of water stations. South Kaibab, however, has zero water. If South Kaibab is part of the planned route load up with plenty of water before you start that section.

Thanks again; good to know. How long did it take you to go R2R2R? Not that I want to do that in a day but it will give some gauge for time.

[Karl Stall]

Super cool. I am planning R2R2R in one push mid May, though FKT isn't remote issue. Would love to garner some maggot wisdom during the planning process. cheers

[neufox47]

May seems like it could be FKNA hot, but I hate the heat. Personally, I would not be using hiking boots, your feet are going to sweat more in them than hiking shoes / trail runners and wet feet + mileage is bad.

[Dantheman]

Thanks again; good to know. How long did it take you to go R2R2R? Not that I want to do that in a day but it will give some gauge for time.

Myself and a friend finished in just under 15 hours. Two others in our group finished in 13 hours. IIRC it took 7 hours to hit the south rim and 8 hours to get back. I wrote up a bit about it here http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-Anyone/page33 (post #815) I was wrecked at the end, but I also did it on very little training (did nothing but ski/ski tour all winter until mid april, then 6 weeks of crash training) and knew much less about endurance nutrition back then. I had also never met or run with the two guys who finished in 13 hours and got sucked into too fast of a pace hanging with them on the initial descent which cost me later.

Super cool. I am planning R2R2R in one push mid May, though FKT isn't remote issue. Would love to garner some maggot wisdom during the planning process. cheers

-#1 tip is fight hard to keep the pace down on the descents. It is soooo easy to get sucked into going too fast and you pay for it later.

-Be prepared for a lot of flat/flatish miles in the middle sections. The elevation profile is basically a very pronounced U-shape.

[GoldMember]

Myself and a friend finished in just under 15 hours. Two others in our group finished in 13 hours. IIRC it took 7 hours to hit the south rim and 8 hours to get back. I wrote up a bit about it here www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/82556-Running-Anyone/page33 (post #815) I was wrecked at the end, but I also did it on very little training (did nothing but ski/ski tour all winter until mid april, then 6 weeks of crash training) and knew much less about endurance nutrition back then. I had also never met or run with the two guys who finished in 13 hours and got sucked into too fast of a pace hanging with them on the initial descent which cost me later.




-#1 tip is fight hard to keep the pace down on the descents. It is soooo easy to get sucked into going too fast and you pay for it later.

-Be prepared for a lot of flat/flatish miles in the middle sections. The elevation profile is basically a very pronounced U-shape.

Thanks for this. I'm pretty well convinced that a two-day trip is within reason for me. No chance on the one-day shot. Between what you wrote and what the guy in the blog link wrote, I have no interest in even trying that. I think the two-day will likely be a solid enough challenge for me. I'm already stepping up my cardio time and have added some weights to my workout (haven't lifted much the last couple of years due to time and injuries). I want to be sure my legs are solid. I'll also get out with some more vertical hiking with a weighted pack once the weather and daylight is more cooperative.

Thanks for all the information. You've been very helpful and I appreciate that!

Edit to add: Here is the elevation profile: