?Base Grind

[skiburgher]

So...I tune my own skis and use a Skivisions to flatten the bases. I was told I still should get the bases ground annually. Is this really necessary to do?

[grskier]

Skivisions is great to flatten the base, but a grind can put in the right texture.

[Alpinord]

So...I tune my own skis and use a Skivisions to flatten the bases. I was told I still should get the bases ground annually. Is this really necessary to do?

Decide relative to wear, mileage and performance and not an arbitrary calendar date.

Are they flat? Are they running well? Are the base edges reasonably smooth? Are these powder, BC or all-mountain drivers or high performance carvers?

One pair of all-mountain skis I was on the other day are ripping fast. They have only seen the Ski Visions Base Flattener/Structuring tool and the Base File Flattener. The only reason I might get a grind on these particular skis is to remove the nicks along the base edge because it'd take forever to do so using the Ski Visions tools. Then I'll need to reestablish the waxing that is currently in a very good place.

EDIT: forgot to include that another reason for a grind if your base bevels are over beveled or you simple want to reduce their geometry to a flatter, more responsive angle. The base material needs to be removed so you can reestablish base edge geometry.

EDIT2: clarifications

[auvgeek]

^^Good stuff -- thanks!

[skimaxpower]

Annual base grind is probably overkill. But a good base texture helps hold wax and travel faster. If you go to a decent ski shop, they can probably give your skis a single pass through the stone grinder for much less than the cost of a complete "tune."

[Phill]

Ski through the parking lot.

[Voltron]

These I go to a reputable race shop and ask for the craziest grind available. Some people may be convinced on the value of grind patterns for certain conditions, but I'll be honest and say I could never tell the difference. So I go with what really matters - cool looking shit on the bottom of my skis.

Artech knows what's up.

[Damian Sanders]

I've used the skivisions base flattening tool for over five years now, and very rarely need to take a pair of skis in for a stone grind. Only if they have extensive base edge damage (or badly base high) that requires lots of base removal to get back to a clean edge with proper bevel, or have a base material too hard for the blade to cut effecively (like K2 factory series colored bases).

A good 10-20 passes with a sharpened steel blade will remove enough materal to do a mild base bevel reset and get out minor burrs. With good technique it leaves a very flat, even base, infact, I've used it to correct skis that have been stone ground concave. Just need to use smooth even pressure and make sure you aren't working one side of the ski more than the other.

BTW, I opened up my flattener and filled it with small nails to weight it down, makes it run smoother on the ski.

The stones leave a extremely nice pure linear structure with no hairs. I use a broken in course stone followed by steel brush and medium pressure scotchbite. Typically results in a stucture that requires no break in (no hairs) and is very fast. It is actually quite amazing how free of ptex microhairs this base scructure is, they don't need to bee scotchbrited much, just enough to smooth them out a bit. Some people say a linear structure is hard to turn, I don't find that to be true at all.

Many stonegrinds leave LOTS of ptex microhairs that pop out after a day of skiing, it can take lots of scotchbriting and about 10 days of skiing on ice to really wear these off and have a base running well. Here is a recommendation for a race ski, after a stonegrind, yikes....

Remove any wax that the shop laid down.
The process below removes micro hairs from the surface.
• Use the gray fibertex pad from the 3-pad fibertex set, with a brush over it (you're pressing on the brush to get even pressure for the pad underneath that is touching the base).
• Go over it about 50 times in both directions.
• Change to the red/brown fibertex pad and repeat 50 times.
• Wax, cool, scrape at least 3 times (5 is better) before the skis touch the snow. If you are a racer, you should consider repeating this 10-15 times before the ski touches the snow. On the World Cup circuit, the waxing cycles go up to 30 to 50 times before hitting the snow!
• With each wax cycle heat the base surface as little as possible. The idea is to lift and stiffen base micro hairs so they can be cut away with the scraper.
• NOTE 1: Run 5-6 times with re-waxing between runs before they are considered training quality.
• NOTE 2: Run 10 times with 10-15 waxings for racing quality.
• NOTE 3: Keep the bases waxed, else they will oxidize and you may have to restructure.

[Alpinord]

A good 10-20 passes with a sharpened steel blade will remove enough materal to do a mild base bevel reset and get out minor burrs. With good technique it leaves a very flat, even base, infact, I've used it to correct skis that have been stone ground concave. Just need to use smooth even pressure and make sure you aren't working one side of the ski more than the other.

I haven't actually counted passes and compared using a combo of passes with the coarse ruby and then steel blade vs steel blade only for base high issues. It seemed to go a little faster. Have you tried this?

Also, the crosscut file in the file flattener also leaves a nice, clean linear structure.

[Damian Sanders]

I haven't actually counted passes and compared using a combo of passes with the coarse ruby and then steel blade vs steel blade only for base high issues. It seemed to go a little faster. Have you tried this?

Also, the crosscut file in the file flattener also leaves a nice, clean linear structure.

I've tried alternating back and forth between the steel and stone inserts, but find if the steel has been sharpened well with a fine diamond stone, it cuts pretty well by itself. Resharpen after each ski, or sooner if the base is hard. Then about 5 passes with the stone to set stucture, then brush and scotchbrite. Although, the skis I did last night I barely scotchbrited at all, didn't look like they really needed it.....will look at them closely in the sunlight after I scrape and brush them.

[Alpinord]

Good tips and info, BTW.

Here is a recommendation for a race ski, yikes....

Remove any wax that the shop laid down.
The process below removes micro hairs from the surface.
• Use the gray fibertex pad from the 3-pad fibertex set, with a brush over it (you're pressing on the brush to get even pressure for the pad underneath that is touching the base).
• Go over it about 50 times in both directions.
• Change to the red/brown fibertex pad and repeat 50 times.
• Wax, cool, scrape at least 3 times (5 is better) before the skis touch the snow. If you are a racer, you should consider repeating this 10-15 times before the ski touches the snow. On the World Cup circuit, the waxing cycles go up to 30 to 50 times before hitting the snow!
• With each wax cycle heat the base surface as little as possible. The idea is to lift and stiffen base micro hairs so they can be cut away with the scraper.
• NOTE 1: Run 5-6 times with re-waxing between runs before they are considered training quality.
• NOTE 2: Run 10 times with 10-15 waxings for racing quality.
• NOTE 3: Keep the bases waxed, else they will oxidize and you may have to restructure.

Swix makes a rectangular velcro 'brush' that holds fiber tex pads very well.



KUU has velcro a roto brush that really expedites this process.

[userA]

the treatment i give my bases makes me feel so inadequate while reading this.
b

[HighWest]

the treatment i give my bases makes me feel so inadequate while reading this.
b

This is all very Epic. Yet I'm following intently... I must be getting soft... or old.

[galibier_numero_un]

Ok ... the Spring skis have come to the fore, and the rest of the quiver is getting prepped for next season.

I have the base flattener (steel blade/ruby stone) and it was a revelation over my 40 year technique - using a 10" mill bastard file.

Terry and others: since I've never used a panzer file on bases (only on side edges), does the SkiVisions file base flattener have any advantages over a panzer file, the naked SkiVisions file, or some other file type?

With 40 years' practice using a mill bastard, I have good technique with a naked file, so I'm not concerned with something that idiot proofs poor technique (i.e. not exerting pressure over the edges so you don't bow the file).

From what I've read, the file base flattener produces a slightly wavy base, and a finishing pass with the base flattener is recommended afterwards (steel blade for true-ness & stone for structure). So, does the file base flattener present any advantages over a naked file when used by a skilled practitioner?

I'd prefer to distribute my tuning budget toward a Toko T14 + a good file over the T8 / file base flattener - if the base flattener is just gilding the lily for me.

Thanks,
Thom

[Alpinord]

Hi Thom,
The file base flattener with it's crosscut file is best for edge high bases, though it does finish bases nicely. (Whereas the Base Flattener and Structuring tool is for base high planing.) It also works well for base repair material removal. The planer gives you a 'benchmark' that flat filing may not. Also, I like a crosscut file over the radial/panzer if you do decide to go by hand. It seems to be a little easier to move down the base where the radial files tend to follow the tooth curves.

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks Terry,

Cleaning up excess plastic from base repairs is yet another benefit of the base flattener/structure tool.

I suspected that a panzer file might be too aggressive for bases - based on how they grab side edges. I can see how it might grab the base & follow the teeth. I'll pick out a cross-cut to experiment with on a trashed pair of skis - to get a feel for how the tooth pattern grabs the plastic.

Question: it seems as if the only cross-cut file you carry is the SkiVisions (8")? I may just get on the phone for you to hone in on my needs (pun intended ).

Cheers,
Thom

[Alpinord]

The panzer file is also called a 'body file' and does the job for base work (as do other coarse files). I just prefer the crosscut, but they both take forever if by hand. The base flattener is much faster and more accurate.

Currently, we only sell the Ski Visions crosscut (currently not in stock, IIRC) but I can get others if you need longer.

I'll be in and out this week if you call.

[XXX-er]

Last time I got a base grind the shop in whis was giving out 1/2 price grinds to race volunteers, that machine did in 10min a way better job than anything I could do in a day of fucking around but that ski had bases that were very convex & evil, unless my skis had a real problem like base high/low or I was a racer ... spend the $$$ on cases of chi-chi beer

[Timberridge]

Panzer file tip: You need to hold it at a much more acute angle to the side than a straight cut file. And as soon as you get near the tip or rear of a twin tip ski lift the file.

[galibier_numero_un]

Last time I got a base grind the shop in whis was giving out 1/2 price grinds to race volunteers, that machine did in 10min a way better job than anything I could do in a day of fucking around but that ski had bases that were very convex & evil, unless my skis had a real problem like base high/low or I was a racer ... spend the $$$ on cases of chi-chi beer

Agreed, that in the hands of a good practitioner, you can't do better than this. I can be a lazy shit about two round-trips for dropping off and picking up a tune. It's probably a good end of season errand, however.

The panzer file is also called a 'body file' and does the job for base work (as do other coarse files). I just prefer the crosscut, but they both take forever if by hand. The base flattener is much faster and more accurate.

Currently, we only sell the Ski Visions crosscut (currently not in stock, IIRC) but I can get others if you need longer.

I'll be in and out this week if you call.

Thanks Terry. With all this dicking around I've been doing, I might as well get the file flattener as soon as it's back in stock. It's only a $40 premium over a quality file & may open up my eyes in the same way the base flattener did. I am open to change/improvements, after all

The last time I didn't listen to your recommendation (on ski vices) it cost me more money, and I ended up with something that wasn't as suitable to the task

Cheers,
Thom