CAIC just tweeted a slide in East Vail - 4 caught.

[Oceanman]

+++VIBES+++ and hugs to everybody effected by this slide.

I think that everyone heals differently from losses/events like this. I am one of those guys that lets it all out and I'll say it right now, we made a chain of bad decisions that were fogged by human factors. We should have never been on top of Pucker that day...

After reading the article (play-by-play), I think Becca is at a very different spot of grieving then where I am/was. Recognizing, understanding and then communicating errors and bad decisions can be tough and she's obviously not there yet. It's hard to read this piece because I know there is soooooo much that can be learned from this tragedy, yet it has yet to surface. I hope in time, we will hear more from the group.

Our group on Pucker was lucky to have such a experienced and thoughtful author with Angus Thuermer. Although Angus did a solid job, schralpmacchio and I are working on a open platform piece that will thoroughly discuss our errors and take aways in detail.

Summit, I will personally message you our write up once it is complete. It touches on what is hard to teach and even harder to learn: human factors. We hope that our work will be more then just a take home case study, rather an in the field exorcise/tool that can be used to save people from getting baited like we did. I think it would be beneficial for your students and everyone else that recreates in the backcountry.

Once again, tons of love to the vail community. The wounds are still fresh and healing takes time. Be kind folks, these guys need all the support you can give.



Cheers

[Crampedon]

While on the subject of teaching and Vail, I have a friend who's son graduated from Vail Mountain School not long ago. He went on numerous hut trips in the area with the VMS Tele team. I once offered him my shovel, pack, beacon probe ect for an upcoming trip. They were going to skin to a hut past various know slide paths. He turned the gear down. I grilled him about how much time they spent on Avi safety and he kind of shrugged. Scary.

It would seem to me a school where you can see slide paths from the parking lot, with powder skis and boards piled up in front of the school all winter, would be cranking out some kids with some avalanche awareness.

If they are, forgive me. If not, that needs to change ASAP.

Just my 2 cents, but I would gladly donate a few bucks to that program.


What Oceanman and Summit have said is important, lessons need to be learned from these losses and are not, obviously.

I know a another young Vail man that now is away at college that spent his entire ski day doing laps alone in bushwhacker, Millers cliffs, Pete's ect with no pack and no one sure where he was. Some others have not been so lucky.

There are some adult classes coming up with spots available. If any one wants to enroll and kid in the area and take up a collection for the fee I have $50 in hand.


http://www.apexmountainschool.com/co...aiare-level-1/

[Grizzled]

1000 people at the celebration of Tony's life last night. 3 generations of skiers, from Original Pete's contemporaries, friends and family of Tony's folks and Tony's friends and their families.

For a 24 year old young man he touched a lot of lives; one has to wonder what amazing things he would have done if he had been with us longer.

Unbelievable how Circle and Teri are holding it together and how supportive they were of others who are hurting.

Godspeed Tony Pardee.

[DaHeel]

More valley options

http://coloradomtn.edu/campuses/edwards/

CMC does a great job at Avi 1 and 2.

[Wildman]

Here is a shot that one of my buddies sent me along with the note...
10 mins before the slide...

[PowTron]

Here is a shot that one of my buddies sent me along with the note...
10 mins before the slide...

That makes my stomach turn looking up that and knowing in hindsight that was just about to let loose. Wow.

[Grizzled]

Oof. I had just been wondering what the before and after comparison would look like...

[Grizzled]

Wildman, your bud is very fortunate. Hope he is ok in the melon, that could rattle a guy...

[SchralphMacchio]

My heart goes out to everyone affected by this accident. I wish the best for the community of East Vail users as well - I hope that everyone can support each other and do what they can to learn from this.

Recently, I've had students read the NYT article on the Stevens Pass slide as a human factors study. Today I will assign my Level I students this article as homework for tomorrow mornings discussion on human factors.

Summit, we should catch up offline.

Tunnel Creek 2012 could be one of the most solid case studies ever presented on group dynamics and sidecountry touring issues, but I think we need a deeper look and a different perspective. John Branch and Megan Michelson both did extremely wonderful jobs with their projects for NYT and Outside Magazine, but they were not writing AIARE instruction pieces. I think there is an opportunity to change the way we educate with these incidents ... Because, I read about Tunnel Creek as well but it didn't change my susceptibility, and our group's susceptibility, in falling into a lot of the same traps as the Tunnel Creek group did. I've been talking to Ian McCammon about this - just knowing about human factors doesn't necessarily change your group's susceptibility to their effects. If we are only ever teaching the bird's eye view of human factors, and not teaching firsthand observables or using communication techniques to mitigate their effects - then many of us will continue to step into the traps that they are hiding.

Obviously I have been thinking about this nonstop and obsessively for the last 3 weeks ... Anyways, just keep your eye out for the Spring TAR because you're going to see new writing about Tunnel Creek Feb 2012, Grizzly Gulch Dec 2013, and hopefully Pucker Face Dec 2013.

Sadly, humans are human.

That much is true - and as recreationalists we will continue to err.

The main question is, can we become part of a culture shift that respects the hazards more and changes the way that we educate about backcountry safety? If so, then we are never going to get there through harsh criticism or techie ISSW papers. This is now my new thinking, because for all these people - Mike Kazanjy, Tony Seibert, Jim Jack, Johnny Brenan, Chris Rudolph, and everyone else - I want their passing to mean something.

[jm020]

Here is a shot that one of my buddies sent me along with the note...
10 mins before the slide...

That was up on his facebook memorial page, too. crazy. I tried posting a link to the photographers site. He put up a pic of Tony skiing down along with his comments...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

[userA]

My heart goes out to everyone affected by this accident.

That much is true - and as recreationalists we will continue to err.

The main question is, can we become part of a culture shift that respects the hazards more and changes the way that we educate about backcountry safety? If so, then we are never going to get there through harsh criticism or techie ISSW papers. This is now my new thinking, because for all these people - Mike Kazanjy, Tony Seibert, Jim Jack, Johnny Brenan, Chris Rudolph, and everyone else - I want their passing to mean something.

my fathers generation traveled the same terrain and learned travel techniques over a span of years not 2 eight hour classes. we are part of a generation and culture that requires quick reward for an economy of effort.
b

[Lindahl]

my fathers generation traveled the same terrain and learned travel techniques over a span of years not 2 eight hour classes. we are part of a generation and culture that requires quick reward for an economy of effort.
b

So true. I was lucky and grew up with an uncle who's been a BC guide for 35 years that would take me out on trips with him on occassion. I learned a ton about terrain management and about questioning every detail throughout an entire trip. I remember spending an entire summer reading and typing his avalanche I/II course handbook into the computer when I was 12, and spending countless hours replicating his slides into a 'powerpoint' presentation (before powerpoint). So much knowledge and experience that guy has.

[burningcore]

condolences to all involved - what a bummer...

the article says they had "all the gear"

were they wearing airbags? specifically Tony?

[totaliboard]

i imagine "all the gear" to mean the bare essentials, i.e. beacon shovel probe.. but i could be wrong.

[Micol]

I know it takes some time, but I wonder if a full detailed report is forthcoming?

[Grizzled]

There will be a full report. Be patient.

[Hacksaw]

There will be a full report. Be patient.

Keep your pants on kids.

[~mikey b]

skirts too

[MakersTeleMark]

What do you possibly think it will say that is unique or enlightening to you? I could write it in my sleep. They should just keep that one on file.

[~mikey b]

With names left blank to fill in later.

Remember, Christian, not everyone is as old and crusty as you. Some folks just realized that EV can kill them.

Montanaskier will probably give us his detailed (mis-spelled) analysis of of this truly enlightening event.

[Name Redacted]

What do you possibly think it will say that is unique or enlightening to you? I could write it in my sleep. They should just keep that one on file.

Yeah, why do they even bother investigating these accidents anymore. Not like anyone will learn anything from it.

Every accident has a lesson. Mistakes were made, and if nothing is learned from it, it would be a huge disservice to the victims.

[goldenboy]

Quoted from the MMQB article, and apt in light of some of the above comments.

“As soon as you realize
‘that could be me,’ that’s
when you’ve arrived as an
avalanche expert,” says
Tremper.

[Name Redacted]

I remember when I thought that.

Yeah, and then what happened? You decided to make a run for the 20k posts on TGR?

Will a slide like this happen again and kill more people? Sure. But will learning about this slide and others like it prevent others from being killed the same way, I like to think so. Maybe a high profile death back there will show some kids the dark side of EV and make them think just a little bit more before heading out the gate.

Anyone can play the crusty old guy who's seen everything card, but it usually happens when you've given up.

[Crampedon]

What do you possibly think it will say that is unique or enlightening to you? I could write it in my sleep. They should just keep that one on file.

It won't read pretty, but might have a strong lesson in it for those who find it.

Curious that they are keeping it in their pocket so long.

[garuda]

It won't read pretty, but might have a strong lesson in it for those who find it.

Curious that they are keeping it in their pocket so long.

I would be surprised if it was out already (or even within the next week). It usually takes longer to issue the final. The write up of the Jan. 4, 2008 accident came out Feb. 27, 2008. http://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/ac...ident=20080104