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  1. #151
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    May 2006
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    Sled is still there....
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTR View Post
    Mushroom Bowl is indeed uncontrolled backcountry, yes, and of course all the risks that go with uncontrolled backcountry which this incident so clearly/tragically illustrates.....but it is a different animal than East Vail.....skiers left is steeper, more treed and has a small but significant cliff band (I don't ski there since my first day there thirty years ago)....the farther skiers right you go (actually a long ways) it is less steep, more open, without the cliffs (where I do ski occasionally)......Yes it is backcountry, but completely different compass direction/aspect, way less steep, no one ever killed back there (yet!?)..........this is clearly a dangerous time/conditions in the Colorado backcountry, but my point is that Mushroom and East Vail absolutely are different (though both uncontrolled backcountry and of course not to say Mushroom is risk free) and to specifically equate them is dogmatically misleading.......but, don't be stupid in the backcountry anywhere! Thanks, Chet
    If you don't believe that you have to bring your same avi game to this terrain as EV, then you are on crack. I know that people treat mushie mentally different from EV, but they shouldn't. It's a false fallacy that you are preaching. There are tons of lines all over EV that are way "safer" than a lot of lines in mushie, and there are lines in mushie that are a lot "safer" than CDC. Putting those zones in separate categories is misleading and unwise.

    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  3. #153
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    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Dunfee View Post
    And while people may feel strongly about what actions may or may not have been taken by the party, without further information it's only speculation as to how the group skied the terrain and what mistakes they may or may not have made, and by and large we don't feel it's appropriate to editorialize on what should have happened.
    Totally agree. I really respect that you guys completely avoided the numerous speculative sections of my posts, as they really shouldn't be editorialized in that manner. Thanks.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto View Post
    It's been a long time since I was back there but I remember there was a patrol toboggon stashed in that area as well as markers on the trees numbering avalanche paths. That may no longer be the case.
    Yeah, they permanently keep the tob back there so they can quickly deploy it in the case of an accident. The numbers are used for locational purposes, so you can communicate to patrollers where you entered, in case of an accident. They don't mark avalanche paths.

  5. #155
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    May 2006
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    CAIC just tweeted a slide in East Vail - 4 caught.

    That sled has been useful in the past for sure.
    Last edited by montanaskier; 01-09-2014 at 07:01 PM.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

  6. #156
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    Nov 2008
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    East Maui/East Vail
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    Mushroom slide path from the top of China wall, photo Chute I think the boys call it, the wide one in Maker's Photo-

    No thanks! I'll take wimpy trees.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #157
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    Jul 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Steep gullies.... killed one person in the 2000s and one person in the 2010s... tragedies, but it is a high traffic area and a massive terrain trap. You hear people from abasin talk about it like it is the deadliest thing since the maxim machine gun and that is why they need to own it. And you know it will probably rarely open again because it will then be to Abasin patrols standard of safety for the general customer. They are extremely conservative after all the incidents they've had in the last decade.

    If they do open the SG's, they'll bomb all the snow worth skiing out of 1st.
    Calmer than you dude

  8. #158
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    Oct 2007
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    Anyone else think this headline is a little misleading?:

    "Killer avalanche was big, unpredictable, CAIC says"


    http://www.vaildaily.com/news/966234...azar-vail-east

    Unpredictable? Really?
    Last edited by shredgnar; 01-10-2014 at 07:28 AM.

  9. #159
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    Yeah, very misleading. Thats some feel-good reporting right there.

  10. #160
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    I think it does a disservice to the victims to act as though it was just bad luck. "Unpredictable"? They why the fuck do we have the CAIC? Why are they wasting their time "FORECASTING" conditions and avalanche probability?

    Once again, a hack journalist

  11. #161
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    IMO, more of a disservice to others using the BC. It's all unpredictable, right? So your own decisions play no part in the outcome, seems like the takeaway.

    Will be interesting to see the full CAIC incident report when it comes out. I'll reserve my opinion of their analysis until then. Not that my jong-ass opinion matters anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetoskiatalta View Post
    Dude its losers like you that give ski bums a bad rap.

  12. #162
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    Oct 2010
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    We may be reading something into it which was not intended. Unpredictable is used by CAIC in the context of unpredictable behavior and size once triggered and we are reading it to mean, "woah that slide came out of nowhere!" I think CAIC has been using the word unpredictable recently to mean that some slides are going small, however some are going wide, deep & long. You just don't know which size you are going to trigger when you do kick one loose.

  13. #163
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    Jul 2008
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    One thing that hasn't been discussed in this thread much is: how did it come to be that FOUR people were caught in the slide...(!?).

    It will be interesting to read the final CAIC report.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by COpow View Post
    One thing that hasn't been discussed in this thread much is: how did it come to be that FOUR people were caught in the slide...(!?).
    umm, cuz they were probably all on the slope at the same time.

    rog

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    Anyone else think this headline is a little misleading?:

    "Killer avalanche was big, unpredictable, CAIC says"


    http://www.vaildaily.com/news/966234...azar-vail-east

    Unpredictable? Really?
    Well, they follow up with this -

    VAIL — The avalanche that killed a lifetime local was likely unpredictable and big enough to damage a house, said the Colorado Avalanche Information Center....
    Likely unpredictable. Not sure what they are implying exactly. To me that would mean you went thru a complete thaw/freeze cycle otherwise it is always probable and likely not 100% predictable.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by icelanticskier View Post
    umm, cuz they were probably all on the slope at the same time.

    rog
    Thank you, rog, for playing captain obvious to my poorly drafted question. These guys weren't new to the backcountry. I guess I'm just curious as to the group decision-making process that led to them being on the slope all at the same time... Hopefully one of the other three will share their story in time.

  17. #167
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    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTR View Post
    Mushroom Bowl is indeed uncontrolled backcountry, yes, and of course all the risks that go with uncontrolled backcountry which this incident so clearly/tragically illustrates.....but it is a different animal than East Vail.....skiers left is steeper, more treed and has a small but significant cliff band (I don't ski there since my first day there thirty years ago)....the farther skiers right you go (actually a long ways) it is less steep, more open, without the cliffs (where I do ski occasionally)......Yes it is backcountry, but completely different compass direction/aspect, way less steep, no one ever killed back there (yet!?)..........this is clearly a dangerous time/conditions in the Colorado backcountry, but my point is that Mushroom and East Vail absolutely are different (though both uncontrolled backcountry and of course not to say Mushroom is risk free) and to specifically equate them is dogmatically misleading.......but, don't be stupid in the backcountry anywhere! Thanks, Chet
    I thought I had heard the mushie has taken a few lives but I could be wrong or my source could have been misinformed. Either way, I know there haven't been any deaths since I started skiing Vail but there have been several nonfatal accidents in that area. I feel the lack of fatalities can be misleading since the area doesn't get much traffic. People tend to avoid the long slog to get out and almost having to duck a rope back inbounds, which can get ur pass pulled in a hurry. It's alot easier for lazy people to go through the chutes because there is no climb out or ducking ropes to get back inbounds. The easier the route, the more traffic, the higher the probability of an accident. The terrain in the mushroom bowl really isn't any safer than the chutes, depending on the route.
    Last edited by PowHound84; 01-10-2014 at 11:52 AM.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowHound84 View Post
    I thought I had heard the mushie has taken a few lives but I could be wrong or my source could have been misinformed. Either way, I know there haven't been any deaths since I started skiing Vail but there have been several nonfatal accidents in that area. I feel the lack of fatalities can be misleading since the area doesn't get much traffic. People tend to avoid the long slog to get out and almost having to duck a rope back inbounds, which can get ur pass pulled in a hurry. It's alot easier for lazy people to go through the chutes because there is no climb out or ducking ropes to get back inbounds. The easier the route, the more traffic, the higher the probability of an accident. The terrain in the mushroom bowl really isn't any safer than the chutes.
    Back when I took my Avy I class, I was told that "Skid Row" in Mushroom bowl was named after a guy killed there because he had Skid Row playing on his walkman. Not sure if this is fact or urban legend, but obviously Mushroom bowl can be plenty dangerous as others have pointed out.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerlane View Post
    Back when I took my Avy I class, I was told that "Skid Row" in Mushroom bowl was named after a guy killed there because he had Skid Row playing on his walkman. Not sure if this is fact or urban legend, but obviously Mushroom bowl can be plenty dangerous as others have pointed out.
    Yes, Mushroom is VERY dangerous...especially the face that points North under the hanging cliff/cornice that was posted in the photo before. But, if you are skiing the almost no vert, meadowskipping portion in the treed zones that face west by the road, well then let's be honest and say it isn't AS dangerous (tree wells on big years, not withstanding).

    I guess my point is whether it is EV or Mushroom, or Berthoud or Loveland, Bald Spot, and on and on that the best way to avoid trouble if venturing out is all about line selection and where you choose to ski more than anything.
    Last edited by PowTron; 01-10-2014 at 02:59 PM.
    You should have been here yesterday!

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by COpow View Post
    One thing that hasn't been discussed in this thread much is: how did it come to be that FOUR people were caught in the slide...(!?).

    It will be interesting to read the final CAIC report.
    the same way 6 people were caught and 5 of them killed in sheep creek last year. multiple riders exposed on the slope, poorly spaced.. like rog said.
    Last edited by totaliboard; 01-11-2014 at 08:34 AM.
    long live the jahrator

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowTron View Post
    I guess my point is whether it is EV or Mushroom, or Berthoud or Loveland, Bald Spot, and on and on that the best way to avoid trouble if venturing out is all about line selection and where you choose to ski more than anything.
    Yes, and also It is also about who you choose to ski with, and how you communicate with them.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by COpow View Post
    One thing that hasn't been discussed in this thread much is: how did it come to be that FOUR people were caught in the slide...(!?).

    It will be interesting to read the final CAIC report.
    I hate armchairing, so treat this as one possible guess (and certainly not a judgment), based on the reasonable assumption that they had avalanche knowledge and were attempting to practice safe travel in avy terrain. I'm no EV expert, never skied there but sure have looked at it tons (in person and in pictures) and unfortunately have read many slide zone threads about it. What I gather is that for many of the lines including this one, there are no truly safe zones, just safer zones. And looking at the picture, that face went huge. So it is quite possible that the other people were in those safer zones when the slide started, but it stepped down and propagated widely, catching them too.

    Pure conjecture, but a reasonable possibility. By definition, you can say what Rog said, because people don't get caught if they're not on the slope in some fashion, but it's not terribly useful. But the fact that 4 people got caught doesn't mean that they were all standing in the middle of the path.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
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  23. #173
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    ^^^whether that's true or not, it is a good reminder that safe zones trump line of sight. Also, when skiing big lines companion rescue is all but impossible from the bottom. I don't know what happened but a couple other scenarios are that one or multiple skiers were caught from the top of the line (peeking in and it went) or that someone skied/traversed on top of them. Point being, there is nothing to gain from trowing them under the bus. Especially not before the full report is released. I've got my opinions but I'll keep them to myself.

  24. #174
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    Now isn't quite the time for assuming anything. But reflecting and having honest debates without question of blame is another way we can keep our own heads above snow in the future. Isn't it?

    The obvious lessions will come in good time via facts and free discussion will occur, but for now- We lost one of the tribe.
    And that sucks.

  25. #175
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    あなたのおっぱいは富士山のように美しいです。富士

    Kendo Yamamoto "1984"

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