Apex ski boots

[jcnoble5]

And invented by the same guy who brought you these flower pots:

Which was a precursor to the amazing talent of these flower pots:

[BigMontana]

They seem to ski fairly well, but aren't the miracle cure I was hoping for in re fit, I'll see how they feel once they pack out a little more.

[BigMontana]

Before I skied I just tried to wear them around for a day to get them to pack out, today I went and got them heat fit, a lot more comfortable just walking around, and I can crank them down a bit more than before (eg. Packed out). But it's probably going to be a month or so before i get a chance to ski them again. I'm in the middle of switching jobs and moving to the oil field (bakken shelf) to take the job.

This year I think will be some pretty cool ski vacations, but not the same as the last few years of random all the time whenever I have time off days skiing up at Missoula snowbowl.

[Spats]

Local shop carries them so I tried them on. (Elevation 6225 Sports in Tahoe, i.e. House of Ski on Kingsbury.)

* The inner boot is a snowboard boot with a slightly narrower sole.
* Each size of the outer frame is molded specifically for that inner boot...no wonder they're so expensive! You're basically buying both a ski boot and a snowboard boot.
* The BSL is REALLY long...355mm for a 30 shell.
* They feel about like a 90-100 flex intermediate boot once everything is locked in and buckled down. The only problem you might have is if your lower leg is skinny, at which point you'll need the more expensive version with the dual Boa laces.
* Having a snowboard boot on your foot doesn't automatically solve fit problems...by the time you crank the buckles down enough to ski, you can still end up with pressure points (i.e. the bottom of the tongue dug into the top of my foot) Snowboard boots are comfy because it doesn't matter as much if your foot slops around <-- fact
* The big win is that you can walk around about a million times easier than in ski boots, even AT boots with a walk mode.

My read: they actually don't feel as different from a traditional boot as you'd think, because the hard plastic outer shell grabs the inner boot at most of the places you'd normally crank a boot down. (As mentioned, the plastic frame is custom-molded to each size boot, so the fit is snug.) They're great if you have to spend a lot of time walking in ski boots (your home mountain involves a lot of walking through "the village", you like to hang out in the bar afterward, etc.) or if you're worried about slip-and-fall (e.g. you have an artificial hip and falling in the parking lot could be catastrophic). They're much easier to get on than an overlap boot, but take about the same time because there are two steps (foot in inner boot, inner boot in outer boot).

However, they're only more comfortable than ski boots to the extent that you leave them loose and sloppy on your feet. If that's all you want, just get a soft, high-volume bucket with a 3-piece tongue for ease of entry, like a Dalbello Voodoo.

[BigMontana]

Yeah that tongue pressure low on the boot actually evened out after a heat fit.

[Brianskis]

If you need to "Crank" any boot down to get it to fit, it is most definitely the wrong boot for your foot. The shape of the entire plastic shell should hold your foot in place with the buckles on the ratchets and not even buckled. Buckles are used to hold the plastic together and create a complete, unbroken wrap. With very few exceptions, Cranking buckles, especially the lower two, is for JONGS who don't know how a boot should fit and/or don't know how to properly buckle it.

[BigMontana]

I got a few more days in on these, I didn't notice a big difference in my mobility or ability to throw around my skis back in the trees.

after talking to the manufacturer he suggested that I crank the boot itself (boa) but don't really crank the bottom binding type piece, that seemed to greatly alleviate my foot pain, I can say they are as comfortable un modified as my custom dale boots ever were, after at least 6 attempts to "tweak" them.

I think I honestly have to chalk up any remaining pain to (as suggested) a bio mechanical issue, I think I've already met my out of pocket max for my insurance this year, so I may be able to go get that looked at and fixed a bit latter this year, if that's even still possible.

[BigMontana]

And spats, yeah I had that tounge digging into my upper foot issue a bit too, but I crank them down a bit then pull up on the tongue pretty hard before cranking the boa the Rest of the way, that seemed to help a lot.

[riser4]

I too have very weird feet. I have spent a lot of time in shops lately and have not found anything that the bootfitters have been excited to sell to me to even attempt modifications on with any sort of expectation that it might work. The last guy mentioned that I should at least look into Apex. My other options are to try Dale Boots or Strolz. That guy didn't mention Dale and seemed lukewarm on Strolz. He was very negative on the Fischer Vacuum boots. I am hoping to demo a pair of Apex at Sugarbush in the very near future. Who knows if they will work out for me. What I do know is that I'd like to ski more and that my current boots are killing my feet. So all the haters can fuck off. Some people really do have abnormal feet.

[skiburgher]

What about the Salomon or Atomic moldables?

[riser4]

Maybe. But two very reputable bootfitters that have spent time with my feet were both negative on moldables in general. It is what it is. Some people drink the kool-aid, some don't. There are about seven things I need in a boot and most manufacturers seem to nail only any three of them, which leaves several pain areas that are really difficult to overcome without changes to the mold the boot was made from and the way it was constructed. There was one boot that the last bootfitter said might work, but he wasn't that confident he could fix one problem area. I spent about three hours wearing them around the shop. One shin felt like I had been skiing all day with the worst shin-bang boots you can imagine. He isn't sure he can fix that. That's on top of needing to punch, grind and otherwise "adjust" a bunch of other areas that he is confident he can fix. And those were the best anyone could come up with. Nordica Cruise 110. Even if you fix all that, the insteps were still questionably too low where the boots overlap, or would overlap if my instep wasn't pushing on it. It seems that all boots that have the width and foot shape that I need do not accommodate a high enough instep, among other things. And vice verse. I need heel lifts to fix other issues so that makes the instep issue worse. My current boots, Atomic B Tech, have the instep issue even more than the Nordica. Those boots are also pretty worn out and need to go. They hurt and are no longer worth continuing to modify.

Since I can demo them on snow, I think Apex is worth trying for giggles. I have a feeling they probably won't fit right either. I am skeptical at best about control and longevity of the boot. One post on epic mentioned issues with the top frame buckle for people with large calves. Mine are ginormous.

[Eluder]

Maybe. But two very reputable bootfitters that have spent time with my feet were both negative on moldables in general. It is what it is.

Of course they are, it puts them out of a job.

[bigdude2468]

Of course they are, it puts them out of a job.

I am convinced all boot fitters are full of shit. Every time my wife or I go through the process they say the last guy put me / her in the wrong boots. I recently bought new boots and over the course of three visits I saw the owner put four women in the exact same model boot. Only two of the four were close in physical size and one was a Big Debbie (eats too many Little Debbie's). One was a complete novice and the boot in question is a 110 flex. Good luck, its a fucking crap shoot.

[fatnslow]

I am convinced all boot fitters are full of shit. Every time my wife or I go through the process they say the last guy put me / her in the wrong boots. I recently bought new boots and over the course of three visits I saw the owner put four women in the exact same model boot. Only two of the four were close in physical size and one was a Big Debbie (eats too many Little Debbie's). One was a complete novice and the boot in question is a 110 flex. Good luck, its a fucking crap shoot.

You have to remember a large portion of "boot fitters" aren't very good because they mostly sell custom foot beds and a minor punch . You go beyond that and you've exceeded their bag of tricks. the hard part is finding a good one on their good day and be willing to pay for their trial and error. Most are limited in skills, some are marginal and a very few are great. It's the same as any other non well paying seasonal job. It's not like you are seeing a podiatrist, they are usually a guy who use to tune skis and they hung around the shop long enough the owner let them sell a bit on the floor and touch smelly feet for extended periods for under $20/hr. If people spend half as much time trying to understand what is causing the boot issue rather than bitching about it solutions can be home brewed in many cases. Get yourself a box knife, some adhesive backed padding and a $20 heat gun, you'll be 80% toward the resolution.
Sounds like bigmontana doesn't have a ski boot problem but a foot problem. Keep in mind that the nature of a modern high performance ski boot and "comfort" of a fucked up ankle don't mate well, especially when you are tearing it up in "tight trees"

[riser4]

I know what is causing MY "boot" issues. I am an outlier and not who they had in mind when they developed mass marketed footwear. I have problems finding all the different types of footwear, not just ski boots. It just becomes that much more of a problem with ski boots as the bio-mechanical interface to skis.

[riser4]

Apex was a no go for me. I liked the concept but they just don't fit. I didn't even get as far as demoing a pair on snow. The "snowboard" boot was just not the right shape. However, the clincher is the exoskeleton. The radius of the top buckle is fixed and not even close to being able to fit around my calf. If that part of the "boot" can be made adjustable, both in radius and height, then I think it will open up this boot concept for more people. My bootfitter is telling me I need to wait for one of Atomic's new offerings for next season: http://siasnowshow.snowsports.org/su...na_ENG_pdf.pdf

[media310]

thinking this would be great for splitboarding.. Hard shell on the way up, pull that shit off and rip soft shell on the way down. Someone please invent something like this for us knuckledraggers!

[riser4]

thinking this would be great for splitboarding.. Hard shell on the way up, pull that shit off and rip soft shell on the way down. Someone please invent something like this for us knuckledraggers!

Well, according to Apex you CAN snowboard in the soft part of the boot. I am not a snowboarder however it seemed pretty darn close to a snowboard boot when I tried it on. So what you are asking for already exists. Having never splitboarded it seems like a solution in search of a problem. Soft boots suck for skinning? I guess I didn't think of that. I would not want the exoskeleton in my pack. And it doesn't fold. And there's the boot sole length issue. The exoskeleton is long. I am not sure how that is going to work for you since your binding would have to accommodate the boot both with and without. The apex website is showing a big end of season reduction in price, so pick up a pair and try it out. Or find some shop that will let you demo a pair. There is a shop here in VT that would have let me demo them if they had fit. The Apex site has a pretty good dealer locator app.