Kickstarting Skis

[PNWbrit]

the idea was to see if a better ski could be made.

Apparently DPS have already made the best skis ever.

[hortence]

Damn! You beat me to it.

but you should mosdef have a model called the Simon, mathematically model it so that we can kick out the jams.

[littlebigwater]

Damn! You beat me to it.

but you should mosdef have a model called the Simon, mathematically model it so that we can kick out the jams.

Hahah Sir Simon. man I should have done this MONTHS ago!

[adrenalated]

Final assembly is happening in China - (same factory as DPS) but with our process and cores. Cores are sourced separately and sent to the factory via our medical device manufacturer (as are bases / edges) . they were the only factory open to setting up our process so we are giving this a shot.

As a mechanical engineer, I have always wanted to use FEA analysis to aid with ski design. Kudos for doing so. But you lost me as a potential customer right here. I will not buy a ski made in China.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Just wtf is fea?

[bfree]

Finite element analysis. Therefore the proper term is FEA, not FEA analysis. I hear that one all the time.

[bl2000]

Fucked Endlessly in the Ass?

Seriously, good luck Jan. But you'd have been better off naming the company something truly original like Puppy Factory.

...oh, and you def want to spanker Slaag.

[lobstahmeatwad]

Lots of indies here stateside looking to do oem. China is blowing uh ard right now.

[littlebigwater]

As a mechanical engineer, I have always wanted to use FEA analysis to aid with ski design. Kudos for doing so. But you lost me as a potential customer right here. I will not buy a ski made in China.

Hey big thanks! it was a ton of work but I'm happy with the results so far! as for the location I totally understand - We looked hard to have them done here in Canada [ even had a press made skibuilders.com style] but we could not invest into all the equipment just to make prototypes. State side we gave a couple calls but it did not work out (slow responses - high prices - I was very frustrated) we almost had epicplanks make them (they are great guys) but our timing did not work out on my end.

If this tech proves itself I will try to raise money to do a proper production line here- Well automated and streamlined. But that will take much more than a 30K kickstarter campaign. I definitely don't want to change your mind on this, I believe if you can keep it local, you should do it!, Ill give you a shout when we get things up and going on this side of the pond!

[adrenalated]

Finite element analysis. Therefore the proper term is FEA, not FEA analysis. I hear that one all the time.

Truth. Excellent correction, thanks!

Longer answer - finite element analysis is a mathematical method of analyzing stress and displacement of any object, including complex geometries or materials. It's usually computerized. In other words, it's used to figure out how much something will flex/bend/deform/react when force or pressure is exerted on it and whether or not it will fail under the load.

[littlebigwater]

Fucked Endlessly in the Ass?

Seriously, good luck Jan. But you'd have been better off naming the company something truly original like Puppy Factory.

...oh, and you def want to spanker Slaag.

Haha Thanks! I know I will need tons of it. Yeah that name... ahahah Puppy factory would rock , bet you would get lots of plastic surgeons calling in.

[Slaag Master]

"...oh, and you def want to spanker Slaag." thanks Brian!!!

[bfree]

Truth. Excellent correction, thanks!

Longer answer - finite element analysis is a mathematical method of analyzing stress and displacement of any object, including complex geometries or materials. It's usually computerized. In other words, it's used to figure out how much something will flex/bend/deform/react when force or pressure is exerted on it and whether or not it will fail under the load.

Hard part is FEA isn't good at predicting out of plane failures like delamination (most common failure method I would guess). That said, it would be great for designing new core profiles and layups to determine proper stiffness and deflection. The modeling could sure get complicated when trying to include the extra stiffness induced by the bindings and boots. I'd be curious what the OP is using.

[wolfelot]

I like the graphics. Good luck!

[littlebigwater]

Hard part is FEA isn't good at predicting out of plane failures like delamination (most common failure method I would guess). That said, it would be great for designing new core profiles and layups to determine proper stiffness and deflection. The modeling could sure get complicated when trying to include the extra stiffness induced by the bindings and boots. I'd be curious what the OP is using.

I would be super curious as well. And you are 100% right it is not great at factoring delaminations but you can factor resin strength. I think the biggest problems causing delamination that we can tell is if improper curing methods used / or if the process is rushed - but we found that even with a poorer resin even blown edges can become more prevalent. We did model the " binding dead zone" - it is not really, as flex still occurs. The funny part was that it was totally different for a tele-setup. ( I only made myself one prototype - I don't think anyone will want to try them HAHAHA)

[littlebigwater]

I like the graphics. Good luck!

thanks! I'm glad you like them - In the near future Ill make some available maybe as posters (ill take suggestions!!!) -Never thought of myself as an artist but I was good at finger painting!.

[littlebigwater]

Just released a women's ski - there is only one week to go and we are so close to make these skis a reality!



get more info here!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...7/templar-skis

[Frank Naets]

So big-name companies don't use FEA? WTF do they do then, they just wing it with a new layout??
BTW due to the relatively big uncertainty in the wood properties and resin interface, you might want to use stochastic/fuzzy FEA methods to get a feel for the inevitable range in properties and sensitivities...

[cmcrawfo]

Do you hold any patents on your cores or manufacturing process?

Overall, you have a slick and cohesive design for your product......but after that I just see a bunch of really scientific looking graphs, and some very fancy math "we built a finite element model.... ". The overall feel of your product is very techy. Thats a marketing approach big manufactures beat to death in the 90's, at that time the big thing was "aviation" technology (on ward and upward, now its "medical" technology).... I think your tech based marketing and over seas manufacturing may miss the mark. When it comes to small scale manufactures, its just as important to sell an image as is to sell a bomb proof ski.Personally, I get more excited about a ski with wood sidewalls, hand pressed in the bottom of the valley.

Its a very competitive industry,and who knows perhaps your approach will beat out the other little guys....but from a funding perspective, the biggest thing that would stop me from investing is your seemingly relaxed attitude about not making any money on this project. You seem to be very intelligent ( with all your university words witchcraft graphs) and intelligent people don't generally throw money away ... so you must have some kind of plan to recover your costs.... at present that plan appears to be crowdfunding... from an investor perspective I would rather your plan be "sales" or "proprietary information"

In all honesty, good luck.

[littlebigwater]

Hi Frank to tell you the truth and be honest I am not sure what the big companies do - I am not in the industry, and when I was asking a couple years ago around I got the run around - when I looked at the scientific publications they are very lacking as well - I mean we have still no consensus on binding position (something that blew me away a couple years ago, or proper ski testing for that matter - it is all subjective - here is a link to a study by Federof that looked at that http://link.springer.com/chapter/10....387-46050-5_51) . As for our FEA modeling I focused on Anisotropic material modeling for our carbon and woods first. That took some time, testing as well as lots of sampling - then I did move on to add a fuzzy loop to run on top of that model looking at primarily uncertainty in adhesive penetration (as we found out through testing that our core properties changed with different adhesives and their ability to penetrate different woods). So great eye on this you are also the first person to have suggested and asked about it. Many people just dismiss it as some FEA method and they move on not understanding what they are actually looking at.

[littlebigwater]

Do you hold any patents on your cores or manufacturing process?

Overall, you have a slick and cohesive design for your product......but after that I just see a bunch of really scientific looking graphs, and some very fancy math "we built a finite element model.... ". The overall feel of your product is very techy. Thats a marketing approach big manufactures beat to death in the 90's, at that time the big thing was "aviation" technology (on ward and upward, now its "medical" technology).... I think your tech based marketing and over seas manufacturing may miss the mark. When it comes to small scale manufactures, its just as important to sell an image as is to sell a bomb proof ski.Personally, I get more excited about a ski with wood sidewalls, hand pressed in the bottom of the valley.

Its a very competitive industry,and who knows perhaps your approach will beat out the other little guys....but from a funding perspective, the biggest thing that would stop me from investing is your seemingly relaxed attitude about not making any money on this project. You seem to be very intelligent ( with all your university words witchcraft graphs) and intelligent people don't generally throw money away ... so you must have some kind of plan to recover your costs.... at present that plan appears to be crowdfunding... from an investor perspective I would rather your plan be "sales" or "proprietary information"

In all honesty, good luck.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. Ill be honest here, skiing is my hobby - and making these skis has added tons of enjoyment to this hobby. I learned so much more than just reading and imagining by just jumping in and that makes me fundamentally a happier skier. I understand that to keep a business afloat you need money coming in , a solid marketing machine, the right sales people and the right network. So why Crowd funding ? first of the 30K will not cover my costs but it is my hobby (some like to drop tons of cash on a hot rod others on hookers - I like skis) and I was building myself skis that I wanted to ski on and got some friends asking to make them some - even made a pair for my fiancee . And then came the critical point I wanted to see if others liked what I was doing - if what I was doing made sense. And decided to have people try them. at $500 with worldwide shipping included its not a good business proposition for any carbon skis manufacturer. So I do see your point in that I am not focusing on making this a business. But I think that stems from me not knowing the industry and that is why I haven't protected the technology either. My last patent cost me 60K in legal fees and its ongoing. I just don't have that kind of disposable cash to throw around for a hobby. But I get a rush when people look at what I have created, test it and come back with a huge grin.

And in all honesty if a hand pressed ski gets you smiling - keep at it, don't settle for anything else, thats the beauty of this sport it has so many facets - from the techy to the home made, backcountry to groomers.

[Ernest_Hemingway]

My friend Harry Crosby used to have a dog named Clitoris. He would walk his dog in his ex-pat suburb of Paris and she was quite friendly and would wag her tail at passers-by. He would introduce the dog when asked and sometimes a dusty and dried-out society cunt would get indignant. He did not name it to provoke, it just sounded like a nice name for a whippet.

Pay no mind to these dusty and dried-out society cunts, whether they don't like the name of your dog or your skis.

[littlebigwater]

My friend Harry Crosby used to have a dog named Clitoris. He would walk his dog in his ex-pat suburb of Paris and she was quite friendly and would wag her tail at passers-by. He would introduce the dog when asked and sometimes a dusty and dried-out society cunt would get indignant. He did not name it to provoke, it just sounded like a nice name for a whippet.

Pay no mind to these dusty and dried-out society cunts, whether they don't like the name of your dog or your skis.

Great Quote! should be on a motivational poster and Thanks!

[ExoticSkis]

Just got a pair of Templar's "Noble" skis (90mm underfoot - 175cm) yesterday for testing, with a half-day of runs on them - Eastern boilerplate with 2 inches of granular sugar to push around. A full review will come later after a bunch of days in different snow conditions, but here's some quick observations:

1- Really nice fit-and-finish...pretty flawless, actually.
2- Stiff flex in forebody and midbody..softer tail
3 -Torsional rigidity is super-strong
4- Very responsive, very strong, superb edgegrip, tons of rebound power
5 - None of the old-style "Goode" carbon-ski feel tons of people really hated.
6 - A charging-type of ski that wants to be driven, not ridden.
7 - Quiet at high speeds...not "damp", but "quiet and controlled" - none of the classic carbon-ski "ping" feedback and hyperactivity. Similar to the control you get in the DPS Pure Carbon models, and the preference for a pilot who is paying attention at the helm. Not for lazy skiers.
8 - Impressive, powerful feel underfoot and along the length of the ski, but a very lightweight chassis....people accustomed to the heavy-damp skis might find the Templar lighter-feeling than they expect, and could need some adjustment time.
9 - Feels more "precise" than "bullish", but craves being pushed. The more you pressure it, the more power it stores up without giving-way.

Jan's design (according to his diagram on the website) seems to forego any traditional fiberglass/kevlar/basalt fabric layers in favor of the tri-species woodcore with carbon fiber layers above and below the core, with an unusual structural carbon "cap" on top...finished off with a wicked-vibrant color graphic topsheet.

I was immediately impressed with the behavior of the Templar (names aside), and we see a lot of poly-raz-ma-taz ski materials and designs come though here, so we are probably over skeptical by nature...but this is the real deal. The core and construction tech has produced a ski that got our attention. If anyone is near Calgary....see if you can get on a pair and let people know how they behave.

Full reviews coming later this season as we get time on this and other Tenplar models.

As far as Kickstarting a ski company...this one launched phase 1 and bingo-skis appeared...so far so good....let's see how it plays out.

[Angle Parking]

Are you sure naming a ski the "Petard" is a good idea?

"Petard comes from the Middle French peter, to break wind, from pet expulsion of intestinal gas, from the Latin peditus, past participle of pedere, to break wind, akin to the Greek bdein, to break wind (Merriam-Webster)....

Petardiers were used during sieges of castles or fortified cities. The petard, a rather primitive and exceedingly dangerous explosive device, consisted of a brass or iron bell-shaped device filled with gunpowder fixed to a wooden base called a madrier....

The word remains in modern usage in the phrase hoist with one's own petard, which means "to be harmed by one's own plan to harm someone else" or "to fall into one's own trap," implying that one could be lifted up (hoist, or blown upward) by one's own bomb."

The word petard remains in common usage although not as stated above (as far as i know anyways). "Un petard' is a joint in French. Ergo, the name of the ski just got a whole lot cooler.
"J'ai fumé un gros petard" means i smoked a big joint.

"Péter" does indeed mean to fart however. "J'ai pété" means i farted.

Best of luck to you.