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  1. #1
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    Self-guided in Japan?

    I've heard and seen a lot of great things about skiing in Japan, but I haven't managed to get clarity on one thing: are there options for a group that want to go back-country with no guide? We don't need the raddest and steepest stuff, but we want wilderness and we want to make our own decisions.

    Are there good options in Japan for a trip like that? Where would one go, and when? Hakkoda or Hakuba or somewhere else?

    Any insight would be appreciated!
    Dwell not upon thy weariness; thy strength shall be according to the measure of thy desire.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chnaiur View Post
    I've heard and seen a lot of great things about skiing in Japan, but I haven't managed to get clarity on one thing: are there options for a group that want to go back-country with no guide?
    Of course there is. There are mountains, ski where you like.

    In terms of convenience: Hakuba as a town has heaps of terrain at its doorstep. Numerous lift accessed trailheads, and many places that generally require a car and an inquisitive mind+maps to get to the trailhead. Elsewhere in Honshu - check out Minakami. Also look into using Furano in Hokkaido as a base.

    Take a look at the center fold (page 19) in this magazine for Hakuba's front valley. In the foothills are the ski areas which give you a 1000m lift to the ridges and trailheads. Disclosure: I am involved with this magazine. The next issue is coming soon, so check that out as well when it does. http://issuu.com/hakuba-mountainlife...a_mountainlife

    One problem with Hakuba is it has too much steep Complex terrain above terrain traps... given that the avalanche danger averages at Considerable in the Alpine most of the time.

    Another Hakuba backcountry area. Some of it can easily be skied in a day, some requires two days. A mix between Challenging and Complex avalanche terrain, so not for the inexperienced.



    When: Jan for storms and tree skiing. March for cleaner but warmer weather with smaller storms, and often a more complicated snowpack [faceting rain crusts from late Feb].

    The three main 1:25,000 front range maps for you. They run vertically N to S.

    http://net.jmc.or.jp/saishiki/MF_Sea...ntLon=137.8094
    http://net.jmc.or.jp/saishiki/MF_Sea...ntLon=137.8094
    http://net.jmc.or.jp/saishiki/MF_Sea...ntLon=137.8094

    Further disclosure: I am involved in the guiding industry in Hakuba, but this is not spam as I'm all booked out for the peak season. If you want truck loads of terrain photos from Hakuba, take a look at my FB album https://www.facebook.com/mountainlifejp/photos_stream
    Life is not lift served.

  3. #3
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    Get the snowsearch japan book.
    Best English language guide book I know of (even if it was written by snowboarders!)

  4. #4
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    Tokachidake area of Hokkaido.

    Cheap onsen hotels and touring for all ability levels.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish_Skier View Post
    Get the snowsearch japan book.
    Best English language guide book I know of (even if it was written by snowboarders!)
    +1 (thanks for the recommendation!)

  6. #6
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    I thought that was a travel and resort guide with piste maps, subway maps, city reviews etc.

    Useful, but isn't the OP asking about backcountry touring?
    Life is not lift served.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    I thought that was a travel and resort guide with piste maps, subway maps, city reviews etc.
    Useful, but isn't the OP asking about backcountry touring?
    ^ correct.
    though as a clueless gaijin i found it essential for trip planning (don't think there is a better english language resource?)
    it also highlights which resorts have the more liberal off piste policies which led us to Myoko & Seki Onsen.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish_Skier View Post
    ^ correct.
    though as a clueless gaijin i found it essential for trip planning (don't think there is a better english language resource?)
    100% (Not that I'm calling you clueless! )

    Also helpful that it gives indication of off-piste policy.
    Life is not lift served.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    Of course there is. There are mountains, ski where you like.

    In terms of convenience: Hakuba as a town has heaps of terrain at its doorstep. Numerous lift accessed trailheads, and many places that generally require a car and an inquisitive mind+maps to get to the trailhead. Elsewhere in Honshu - check out Minakami. Also look into using Furano in Hokkaido as a base.
    Thanks - this is really helpful! You never know what the local rules are, and I had heard that you were almost forced to bring a guide.

    The weather conditions sound complicated all around. Do you know if any of these areas publish avalanche reports on-line? I really like to start reading the daily a month or two before I arrive.

    Looking inside, I think that picture just committed me emotionally to going to Japan this season. I'm feeling a strong pull toward Hakuba right now!

    Thanks again for sharing - I hope to buy you a beer in Hakuba :-)

    EDIT: found the avvy report in your links.
    Dwell not upon thy weariness; thy strength shall be according to the measure of thy desire.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chnaiur View Post
    You never know what the local rules are, and I had heard that you were almost forced to bring a guide.
    Mostly, the rules regarding 'backcountry' near ski areas restricts you from ducking an area boundary rope and entering the sidecountry. Hiring a guide won't alleviate that rule. In fact, ANY guide-type person worth hiring will never duck boundary ropes. Nor go near them. It invalidates any hope of professional standing that they had, and certainly voids their and their client's insurance. Most of this 'backcountry' does not require skins and returns via road back to the lifts. A lot of it can be accessed without ducking a rope. Instead exiting the ski area via their sanctioned 'gate'. The easiest access skiing via these gates is directly into very serious avalanche terrain, which is not really an asset for the valley.

    Nearly all ski areas in Hakuba have a 'gate' where you can leave the resort boundary. Many of these 'gates' are marked as such and go directly into national park. The ski areas can not restrict your access to national park. Once through that gate you can hike for many many days, free as you like.

    If you come to Hakuba, find the trailhead around 1650m at the Tsugaike ski area. Having studied a map beforehand you'll be able to tour away into a whole heap of different terrain styles, rather than the limited options offered via hiking to big lines along ridges and skiing out the roads and doing laps via the lifts (as most people do at Happo and 47/ Goryu for example). Getting to Tsugaike for an early lift is a hassle from Hakuba. It is only a 15-20 minute drive, but the busses are slow and irregular. Some people who are very serious about easy access to backcountry touring try to stay in Tsugaike rather than Hakuba (at the expense of everything else). The 47/Goruy and Happo ridge accessed terrain is the best in-town steep terrain in Japan. But they offer few options for unsuitable days, can get dangerously crowded with very careless people, and the touring component is lacking due to the character of the terrain.

    If there are some changes in the avalanche bulletin availability in Japan, I'll post it here. Good on you for finding them so far.
    Life is not lift served.

  11. #11
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    Thanks - this is extremely helpful! Btw, it is pretty cool that Google Maps defaults to Public Transit and not car in Japan.

    We usually rent a car and move around a bit between ski areas, so getting to Tsugaike shouldn't be a problem. What you are saying makes that area look really good. I think you have understood exactly what we are looking for.

    Is is possible to skin from the road in some areas, or will be snow cover be too high for that?
    Dwell not upon thy weariness; thy strength shall be according to the measure of thy desire.

  12. #12
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    Tsugaike doesn't have the best terrain in the valley, but it has the most options for most days

    Skinning from the road: a car is still helpful, however still close to central Hakuba go for Obinata-yama and beyond. Look for height 1907.6 (meters) on one of the linked maps, north of Happo ski area. You can drive as far as 832m, which you will find near the junction of two rivers to the SE of 1907.6. Some advice - the NE aspect of Obinata is steeper and far more convoluted than a map might suggest. Plenty of people have had epics or been in avalanches there. I wouldn't go not there with a slow, unfit or unprepared group, and I'd stay on ridges the whole time. Prior to your Obinata trip, if you started at Tsugaike you can find a safe and easy access place from which a very useful visual recon of the Obinata zone is possible. Take some photos, take a map, study the view. Then go back to your hotel and plan a good Obinata trip with new data. Hint.

    Here is a shitty picture looking down from about 2600m. Obinata is in the top left. Many of the low angle looking areas are very large slide paths and run outs. No trees = exposed. Please do not underestimate this flat looking picture.


    And here is the reverse-view from Obinata looking back to where I took that ^ photo. This zone is accessed [most easily] via Tsugaike. It gets a lot of sun, unfortunately.
    Last edited by neck beard; 09-18-2013 at 12:35 AM.
    Life is not lift served.

  13. #13
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    Again, really appreciate all the great advice!

    We have started looking at dates for a Hakuba trip in mid-Jan to mid-Feb. Are there any weeks to avoid because of school vacations, etc? Maybe that's more of a European alps thing, but we want to make this great.
    Dwell not upon thy weariness; thy strength shall be according to the measure of thy desire.

  14. #14
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    Take a look at my TR from last January, we have no regrets about our Japan trip. Only thing I would do differently is ski Hakuba as well. That being said, every day was a powder day in Hokkaido and you should have no problem touring unguided if you put in the planning before hand.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-27?highlight=

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chnaiur View Post
    Are there any weeks to avoid because of school vacations
    Probably, but I honestly do not know the dates.

    Some weekend mornings after 8.30am at the Tsugaike gondole can be epicly busy. Ticket line then lift line. Bus to Tsugaike means you can't get there earlier. So perhaps avoid that zone on long weekends, or arrive at 10am when it has cleared. Or line up. Or buck the trend and find accomm in Tsugaike (no/few restaurants, run down 'village', no bars). Or rent a car for your trip and be the master of your own time and space
    Life is not lift served.

  16. #16
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    Thanks Benk - that does look awesome, and I'm using the pics to get people stoked about the trip!

    Thanks for all the info Neckbeard! The way these trips usually turn out we'll be four dudes in an SUV, chasing the snow as well as we can.
    Dwell not upon thy weariness; thy strength shall be according to the measure of thy desire.

  17. #17
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    so can you ski out the door of this place? seems fairly close to Tsugaike.

    http://au.hotels.com/ho387016/hakuba...-hakuba-japan/
    off your knees Louie

  18. #18
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    Not a chance. And it is in central Happo, not Tsugaike. About 7km away in a straight line.

    Tsugaike has heaps of accomm right on the groomers, so access to the gondola>TH is easy, and coming home is easy. AFAIK, none are run by foreigners, but some do have English components on their websites.

    FYI, the terms 'ryokan' and 'onsen' are often used for hotels in the middle of a town, not just in the mountains. Just in case you are searching for venues using those terms [based on your accomm question in that other thread].
    Life is not lift served.

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