Unofficial 2013 Avi Air Bag Pack thread

[GPP33]

No idea who fed you this...but when I spoke to BCA yesterday they said that there were no changes to the Float 32, 22, or Throttle this year.

So, yeah, same pack as the previous issue.

Very good chance I was looking at a pack from 2 years ago. Either way, jack ass at the skate shop was trying to sell it for full MSRP.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ skate shop?

[GPP33]

^^^ skate shop?

They are the only ones around with the ABS packs. In fact, they had the most abundant selection of air bag packs in Boulder Colorado. ABS were from this year, BCA was apperently a couple of years old the very strange Ortovox one, who knows.

[Driver]

+1 for the Mystery Ranch Blackjack. One thing that hasn't been mentioned here, but cannot be overemphasized, is the quality in the materials, design, and craftsmanship of this pack. Everything is super burly and screams 'high quality'. This is typical across the MR packs as many people here know, and has been since MR was Dana. The design of the pack and the yoke system makes it carry weight incredibly well... it's really like your favorite fully dialed backpacking rig, but for skiing. It just feels great on your back. Airbag packs weigh more, so this is huge- the design and the way it carries make you want to wear the pack. You can also strap it down and never notice it, as others have noted. Perfect size for people who are out doing full day BC tours. Possibly overkill for "sidecountry" (I still don't recognize this term, but use it out of convention ). And not quite enough for overnights, though I did make it work once (thanks to FranklezZ for carrying the tent . Great to use for day hikes in the summer as well. Actually would be nice if it had some more external lashes to allow it to stretch for multi-day missions. Also would be nice to add a hydration system. But this can be done in the aftermarket (sidebar - has anyone rigged this up in an intelligent way?)

Of course, the MR pack is a pretty penny. But like most things in life, you get what you pay for. I'm OK paying up for such an impressive piece of workmanship.

We got a really good deal on a TGR group buy last year, maybe someone is putting one together this year as well for people who are interested.

[pow_hunter]

Has anyone checked out Mammut's Light RAS 30 in the flesh? Seems a nice simple design. Too simple? I can live without a separate shovel/probe pocket, but will need to try it on for comfort - no hip padding and less back padding than most packs. Just how light and susceptible to damage is the main pack material? I'm 6ft4 so length is always an issue for packs - my current BD Covert is the best fit I've had. The Mammut shop should have stock here in the next month I guess, but any info in advance would be nice.

To be honest just go with the Ride 30L......the light is a bit lighter (not really noticable) but the Ride is much better thought out and the extra few grams are worth ot for the dedicated avi pocket etc. I have tried both (this yr models) and went for the Ride

[pow_hunter]

What about the Mammut Pro Protection pack, anyone played around with one and have any thoughts on it?

I have played around with the Pro Protection as well as the rest of the range, and it's a good pack. Best of the range, but you have to be aware that the Protection range has the airbag in the shoulder straps, which puts ore pressure on the front of the shoulders due to the way the straps go back. The guy in Mammut said on long tours this can make your arms go tingly or numb if its heavily loaded. I didnt find the comfort of the Protection restrictive (still better than ABS systems I think) however.

If I went for a Protection pack I would have bought the Pro, but in the end went for a RAS. My friend bought the Pro Protection however and is happy with it

[TG]

I bought a Mammut Pro RAS 45L pack recently. So far so good. Carries well, cinches down to a fairly streamlined shape even when not full. Seems well thought out in general. The 45 over 35 was a no brainer given that it's only 90 grams and $25 extra and any empty space disappears when it's cinched up.

My only gripe is with the hydration "system". It's obviously designed with the intent of using some kind of bladder in the special pouch and the hose routed through the provided openings and loops. But, what kind of bladder fits in there? My camelbacks have to be forced in - the wide mouth opening/lid of the bladder barely fitting into the zippered bladder pouch. And the pouch itself is not quite the right shape for the bladders I own.

Has anyone found something that fits?

I have been using a normal bottle/thermos, pause to open the pack and drink system, but I do like and miss the convenience of sipping on the go.

[LC]

To be honest just go with the Ride 30L......the light is a bit lighter (not really noticable) but the Ride is much better thought out and the extra few grams are worth ot for the dedicated avi pocket etc. I have tried both (this yr models) and went for the Ride

I checked a few out quickly last week but need to go back and load them up to get a better idea.

Any advice out there for which packs fit a longer torso (6ft4) best?

[Lindahl]

Float 32 is decent but no frame. Mammuts are on the shorter side for long torsos, though the Pros are longer. ABS also short, though there are other 'base' manufacturers now. I wish Osprey would make them. One of the few packs that don't feel too short to me. Black Diamond should be really good in length (as long as they do their large), but not released yet.

[LC]

Black Diamond should be really good in length (as long as they do their large), but not released yet.

Yep. My current pack is an old BD Covert 32 and is the best fitting pack I've ever had. If I'm not convinced by anything I try this month then I'll leave it another year and see what BD comes out with. I wish they'd just build Snowpulse's system into one of their bags instead of trying to invent something new over the past few years!

[beer30]

Any one played with scotts offerings?

[j,the snowboarder]

Anyone had problems recently with ABS activation handles not firing? We have two units in the family and I was doing the annual test and neither seems to work, they are definately stiffer than before. They should go at 80N(=8kg) pull, I rigged a luggage scale to the backpack to get a feel of the force I'm using and an approximately 12kg pull doesn´t fire neither handle. Both handles were received a year ago.

I´m offcourse heading to the shop, but issues like these on safety equipment should always be public. Even if handled by warranty.

I really recommend doing the annual test fire. When testing a year ago, one of the airbags in my bag (abs twin bag bought Nov 2011) did not inflate to full. It was maybe 90% full, but still an issue imo.

A friend had an issue with 2011 year model Snowpulse Guide 45 not inflating on a real situation. We had been touring and his bottle had gone loose (backpack pressure bottle.. ). This could have happened over multiple days, so check the bottle tightness every day. The whole system relies on proper airflow to get the venturi valves do what they are supposed to do. 50% of the air is sucked from the surroundig air throug the venturi valves.

[j,the snowboarder]

I went to a shop and got 2 new handles, tested both packs, everything worked. The force needed to pull a new handle was about 1/10 of the force I tried on both of the old handles (replaced Nov 2012), which did not fire.

The bags are stored in different rooms in our house, so a common storage issue is pretty much ruled out (some chemical, temp etc). We actually skied quite little together last year and the only trip we went together was 2 weeks in Lyngen. We went there by car and slept in a warm cabin. Which is pretty typical use for the packs. The only thing that might be out of typical was one day of crevasse rescue training at a mock-up location near the shoreline, maybe 200 meters from the open sea at an altitude of 30m. It of course included crawling on moist snow (snowballs barely doable) etc. Perhaps there's a little more salt in that snow near the sea..? Pretty far fetched in my opinion. I´d be more willing to say this was a fabrication issue in the handles..

[Scottish_Skier]

Yep. My current pack is an old BD Covert 32 and is the best fitting pack I've ever had. If I'm not convinced by anything I try this month then I'll leave it another year and see what BD comes out with. I wish they'd just build Snowpulse's system into one of their bags instead of trying to invent something new over the past few years!

I am 6"2 and the Mammut 22L ride sits on my back OK.
Its a little high - but not enough to annoy me.

Hummed and hawed for ages about going for the 22L or 30L ride RAS pack.
In the end went for the 22L. Great pack, light and will be very happy to use it every day skiing with out considering it a hassle.
It will *just* fit everything in I need for a glacial tour : shovel, probe, skins, 9mm rope, lunch, map, crampons, harschein, 500ml water.
My only complaint would be the lack of ice axe loop.
I know there will be occasional days that I wish I had a 30L pack. But for lift serviced skiing or non glacial touring (which is most of my skiing) its nice to have something low profile.

Perhaps the 30L Scott RAS pack will suit you ?
Warren Smith posted a video review of it online and he is very tall (6"3 ish) - it was on my short list.

RE : Blackdiamond : Agree. Cool technology but I Just cant see a motor + fan ever being lighter than a compressed air cylinder ?
At 3kg that Mammut packs are pretty light. Even more so with a carbon cylinder.

[LC]

I am 6"2 and the Mammut 22L ride sits on my back OK... Perhaps the 30L Scott RAS pack will suit you ?
Warren Smith posted a video review of it online and he is very tall (6"3 ish) - it was on my short list.

Yeah, a couple of 6ft friends have the Ride 22L and it feels OK on me. I'd most likely go for the 30L though, as my current 32L is sometimes pretty full on glacier days.

Another mate is trying to track down the Scott pack locally, keen to try it too for comparison.

[skiingsamurai]

Im surprised to not hear much love for the ABS. I love the idea of a base unit and being able to zip on a 15l for a slackcountry day and a 30/40l for a long day.

Does anyone else make this base type unit with zip on volume?

[Lindahl]

The problem with a base panel design like ABS is that
1) it dictates how you access your gear (no backpanel access)
2) how it carries (the frame is a part of the airbag system)

The RAS system does a good job avoiding these problems, while reaching nearly the same goal - a transferrable system (but not as quickly - 5min instead of 30 sec).

[concretejungle]

Height and torso length aren't the same thing. Unless someone comes up with a better fitting pack I think the Mystery Ranch is the only one a long torso person could roll with.

Anyone know of any other pack that would fit a 23 inch torso length? I'm not happy with a hip belt that doesn't carry weight.

[Lindahl]

There aren't any right now. I was pretty disappointed also.

[LC]

So I had a good play with various packs in Snell today loaded with all my gear. For me at 6ft4:

Mammut Light 30L RAS: Very short on me, no avi pocket will be a pain in the ass when fully loaded with glacier touring gear, RAS system takes up a considerable volume (plus there's the cylinder to add), didn't try with skis/axe.

Mammut Ride 30L: Same length/volume issues as above, unstable ski carry (diagonal using the top snowboard strap as instructed by the shop guy - seems there should be a real top strap but there wasn't).

ABS Vario 30L: Much better length (not ideal, but as good as my old BD Convert 32), not that comfortable with avi gear in the pocket closest to the back-panel, OK volume fully or partially loaded, OK ski carry.

Dakine ABS 30L: I typically don't like how Dakine packs carry but that's not an issue here. Pockets/compartment were fine for volume & organisation when fully or partially loaded, ski carry OK but not ideal with an axe strapped on too. Seems like my best option.

[d542east]

So, I'm in the market for an airbag. I would buy the float 32 right now except that it is too tall for me. It's right on the money for volume/features/design/value (especially with prodeal), except for the fit. I'll use this most ski days, so good fit is essential. The Mammut ride short sounds like it would work for me, but it's 28L (minus a couple liters for the airbag, while the float32 is apparently 32+airbag) so it's probably too small. I definitely need to fit a full glacier kit so the volume is also essential. Also, I'll be flying with the bag so ABS is out of the question.

Would the regular Mammut ride 30L (the pro is even taller than the float 32 apparently) do what I'm looking for? How about the WARY 33L for a short torso? The blackjack sounds nice, but also looks too tall.

If it helps, I've been skiing with the small BD anthem and I love the way it fits, but It's just barely big enough for day tours and way too small for a glacier kit.

[swerve]

So, I'm in the market for an airbag. I would buy the float 32 right now except that it is too tall for me. It's right on the money for volume/features/design/value (especially with prodeal), except for the fit. I'll use this most ski days, so good fit is essential. The Mammut ride short sounds like it would work for me, but it's 28L (minus a couple liters for the airbag, while the float32 is apparently 32+airbag) so it's probably too small. I definitely need to fit a full glacier kit so the volume is also essential. Also, I'll be flying with the bag so ABS is out of the question.

Would the regular Mammut ride 30L (the pro is even taller than the float 32 apparently) do what I'm looking for? How about the WARY 33L for a short torso? The blackjack sounds nice, but also looks too tall.

If it helps, I've been skiing with the small BD anthem and I love the way it fits, but It's just barely big enough for day tours and way too small for a glacier kit.

The blackjack is adjustable for torso length so it should fit you perfectly. Call or email mystery ranch and talk to them if you have any questions about getting the right fit. I didn't need it but they will do custom waist belts and yokes if you really are outside of the range of their normal sizes.

[Dkla52]

Any thoughts on the Ortovox Free Rider 26? Which one is better ABS Vario bags or the Ortovox Free Rider bags?

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