paypal and gifting money

**powdork** · 03-30-2013, 11:45 AM

if i say Shipped and Paypalled, that means i am expecting to pay the Paypal portion and DO Not Want to be gifted the money. Paypal provides a service and i expect to pay for it. When you gift me the money
a. i am ripping off PayPal, and I use their services to get paid for my business everyday. they are one of my most valued business partners. i don't want to steal from them.
b. i can't use the one button Print Shipping labels. this is huge for me.
c. YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE. if i don't want to ship it, i don't have to. there would absolutely nothing you could do about it besides whine on TGR

</endrant>

**Tye 1on** · 03-30-2013, 12:24 PM

Often i'll toss on an extra buck or two to a GearSwap buy to help/cover the fees. I'd rather have the recourse, not that i'll likely need it, and also if there is a limit on gifting, i'd rather save that for if i do need to send a cash gift...

**jfost** · 03-30-2013, 12:52 PM

I kinda feel like it is a nice way to send cash to an extended group of "friends" here on TGR. If I were selling as a business or buying from a business, or from someone I have no relationship with, I would go ahead and pay the fees.

Never thought of it as "ripping off" paypal, I'd imagine that some % of people who gift money is expected and built into their business plan, and they certainly make money other ways, but this may require more thought...

**DR_Saga** · 03-30-2013, 01:18 PM

being the person this is directed towards, I had no idea how big of a deal it is to gift something to a stranger. With that being said, I will learn from my mistake and rather than assume someone wants to save the extra 2$ like the poor kids on newschoolers that I normally deal with, I'll instead add that extra 2$ and use the goods/services option so I don't get screwed over in the future. Hope I still get that jacket in the mail in a few days and everything works out as I assumed it would.

**systemoverblow'd** · 03-30-2013, 01:35 PM

So you actually just signed up for the site, contacted him to buy something and planned on paying with a gift? You deserve to get burned by someone not trustworthy.

**powdork** · 03-30-2013, 02:17 PM

not really directed towards you kingshisha, more to everyone. i have no problem with gifting per se, or people using it. but the 'shipped and paypalled' in my post means i am covering the cost of paypal and shipping. using the Print Shipping label gives me a pretty decent discount for shipping too. I can get that by signing up for a USPS account also, but it is a pain.
and your jacket is on the way. :-)

**systemoverblow'd** · 03-30-2013, 02:21 PM

This is directed towards kingshisha

**LightRanger** · 03-30-2013, 03:29 PM

Pretty sure if you gift too much, Paypal will actually call you sometimes and call you out on it.

My Paypal account used to have my parents' address/home phone number on it and I gifted something at some point and they got a call from Paypal. Kinda funny.

**KoKopeLLi** · 03-30-2013, 08:18 PM

just because you paypal someone money and the seller pays the fees, your still not protected as a buyer. I always invoice through paypal stating exactly what it is and that i will provide a tracking number. For anything over a hundred bucks I would require the same, unless is a mag on tgr.

weird that anyone would consider paypal a "valued business partner".

**pfluffenmeister** · 03-30-2013, 09:22 PM

i almost always transfer funds as a gift.

however, i believe that paypal is now charging a % for that as well (albeit a lower % than "goods / services").

**angrysasquatch** · 03-30-2013, 09:28 PM

I think I'm just going to start doing interac payments. One time paypal didn't withdraw from my account right away and I bought other shit and got screwed with a insufficient funds thing for 50 bucks. I assumed the recent change meant that you paid equal amounts on either end, and it was just the buyer's choice whether he or the seller would pay that.

I don't expect paypal to cover me in any way other than if I bought it on ebay.

**powdork** · 03-30-2013, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by KoKopeLLi

just because you paypal someone money and the seller pays the fees, your still not protected as a buyer. I always invoice through paypal stating exactly what it is and that i will provide a tracking number. For anything over a hundred bucks I would require the same, unless is a mag on tgr.

weird that anyone would consider paypal a "valued business partner".

i do all my invoicing via paypal, and that basically becomes my bookkeeping program as well since all my bidness's revenues are recorded there. people can and do pay by check, but I can attach the record of that payment to the invoice. when it's how you get all your money, you pretty much have to consider them a valued business partner

Purchase Protection

If an eligible item that you’ve purchased online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Purchase Protection will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item plus shipping costs.

See user agreement

Here are a few examples of situations where an item doesn’t match the seller’s description: you purchased a book and got a DVD, you purchased a new item but got something that was used, you purchased 3 items but only got 2, the item was damaged during shipping, the item is missing major parts (that the seller didn’t disclose), or you purchased an authentic brand but got a knockoff instead. If the seller has accurately described an item, but you’re just not happy with it, that doesn’t qualify for Purchase Protection.

Purchase Protection covers all your online purchases, on eBay or on any other website, when you use PayPal. It also covers you when you make a payment on our website. You must open a dispute within 45 days of your purchase or payment to initiate the Purchase Protection process. Finally, your account must be in good standing with us to get Purchase Protection.

Purchase Protection does not cover certain kinds of purchases. These include: digital goods (intangible items), services, real estate, motorized vehicles (of any kind), custom made items, travel tickets, industrial machinery (for manufacturing), prepaid cards, or items that violate our policies or eBay’s policies (stuff that’s usually prohibited by law anyway). Purchase Protection also does not cover items that you purchase in person, or money you send to friends and family.

**angrysasquatch** · 03-31-2013, 05:20 PM

So then it seems like the difference in rates between gifting money and sending money is actually to cover the purchase protection program. By gifting, I am opting out of optional insurance. In the old days, I was ripping paypal off by doing so, but now they get their cut for moving money regardless of what I do, and made their insurance optional.

Still seems to me as though the purchase protection program does not explicitly include peer to peer transactions. The way it's written, I'm thinking more Amazon and other sites with paypal checkout. I'm not buying stuff on TGR from a "website", that would imply I'm buying off the company Teton Gravity Research. I'm buying it off a guy, who I happened to meet thru TGR. When an insurance policy doesn't explicitly include something, I assume the worst.

**powdork** · 03-31-2013, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by angrysasquatch

So then it seems like the difference in rates between gifting money and sending money is actually to cover the purchase protection program. By gifting, I am opting out of optional insurance. In the old days, I was ripping paypal off by doing so, but now they get their cut for moving money regardless of what I do, and made their insurance optional.

Still seems to me as though the purchase protection program does not explicitly include peer to peer transactions. The way it's written, I'm thinking more Amazon and other sites with paypal checkout. I'm not buying stuff on TGR from a "website", that would imply I'm buying off the company Teton Gravity Research. I'm buying it off a guy, who I happened to meet thru TGR. When an insurance policy doesn't explicitly include something, I assume the worst.

no the difference may include their purchase protection program, but it is not the sole reason for. if you were to make everything free and remove the Purchase Protection, they would not exist. The gifting would just be a way to get more people signed up that wouldn't otherwise. The purchase protection program does cover purchases here ("It also covers you when you make a payment on our website.")

How do they get their cut when you gift money? the rate is zero. you are still ripping them off.

**adimmen** · 03-31-2013, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by powdork

How do they get their cut when you gift money? the rate is zero. you are still ripping them off.

Using a provision Paypal voluntarily set up and doing so according to Paypal's rules does not constitute ripping them off.

**TBS** · 03-31-2013, 09:02 PM

All this arguing is retarted. Powdork set the terms of the deal, so adjust the price accordingly. Is that so fucking hard for people who graduated from dental school?

**FiveLarge** · 03-31-2013, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by powdork

How do they get their cut when you gift money? the rate is zero. you are still ripping them off.

What do you think they're doing with the money in the 3-4 business days it takes to transfer the funds from your PayPal account to your bank account? With the volumes of money they deal in, they're making money in those 3-4 days. Certainly, less than when they can also ding you for 3%, but they're still making money.

PayPal a valued business partner? There are MUCH better ways for you to meet your business needs as you detail than through PayPal.

**powdork** · 03-31-2013, 09:11 PM

So you are saying that using the gifting option to pay for items is doing so according to PayPal's rules?
I disagree.

**angrysasquatch** · 03-31-2013, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by powdork

no the difference may include their purchase protection program, but it is not the sole reason for. if you were to make everything free and remove the Purchase Protection, they would not exist. The gifting would just be a way to get more people signed up that wouldn't otherwise.

It's probably not a fixed rate of 4.2%, but when I try to gift $100 to a payee, it charges me (the payer) $4.20. Not free.

Originally Posted by powdork

The purchase protection program does cover purchases here ("It also covers you when you make a payment on our website.")

Where did you get this? I assumed you got it off the paypal site. Assuming now that you got it off the TGR main site. ie. not the forums (if you did get it off the forums, then I'd hardly consider that gospel). So they mean if you buy a TGR shirt and Deeper, then if they (TGR) send you a bowl of monkey shit instead, you have recourse.

**powdork** · 03-31-2013, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by spthomson

What do you think they're doing with the money in the 3-4 business days it takes to transfer the funds from your PayPal account to your bank account? With the volumes of money they deal in, they're making money in those 3-4 days. Certainly, less than when they can also ding you for 3%, but they're still making money.

PayPal a valued business partner? There are MUCH better ways for you to meet your business needs as you detail than through PayPal.

i have a degree in finance, i understand the concept of float. when i withdraw money it is there the next day. in fact, if i get a check in the mail and a payment to paypal on the same day, i will often have access to the PayPal money IN MY BANK ACCOUNT before the fucking douchebags at Wells Fargo have released the 1 day hold they put on every check that isn't from Wells Fargo.
it's difficult for you to understand my business needs without being me. and i haven't really detailed them.

**powdork** · 03-31-2013, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by angrysasquatch

It's probably not a fixed rate of 4.2%, but when I try to gift $100 to a payee, it charges me (the payer) $4.20. Not free.

You sure it wasn't $3.20? (or was it outside the US?) If you fund the transfer with a credit card rather than your Paypal balance it is 2.9% + $.30
These are the fees for transfers

PayPal balance or bank account:
Free when sending money inside the US.

Debit/Credit card fee:
2.9% of total amount sent plus $0.30 per transaction (the sender decides who pays this fee).

Outside the US:
Small fee of 0.5% to 2% (depends on destination) when fully funded with bank account or PayPal balance. 3.4% to 3.9% if paying with a credit or debit card.

Where did you get this? I assumed you got it off the paypal site. Assuming now that you got it off the TGR main site. ie. not the forums (if you did get it off the forums, then I'd hardly consider that gospel). So they mean if you buy a TGR shirt and Deeper, then if they (TGR) send you a bowl of monkey shit instead, you have recourse.

that is from the paypal web site. it means when you make an agreement to buy something from someone on a site like TGR and then go pay on the Paypal website ("make a payment on our website") you have the benefit of the purchase protection program assuming you meet all the other requirements as listed above.

**adimmen** · 03-31-2013, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by powdork

So you are saying that using the gifting option to pay for items is doing so according to PayPal's rules?
I disagree.

Yes, but it does look like things just changed. You used to select personal payment and then it had several options, including gift, payment for goods and services, etc. Paypal didn't take a fee and you lost certain protections. If this violated Paypal rules, I don't know how I would have known. I'm not in the habit of reading pages of fine print governing every transaction I pursue.

**powdork** · 03-31-2013, 11:08 PM

yes those options have changed when using the send money link. my understanding was that in the not too distant past when you chose personal payment your options were gift, living expense, payment owed, cash advance, or other.

regardless, i'm not saying noone should use the gift option. i'm saying that when someone says shipped and paypalled they have already included the paypal fees in the price, and are expecting to pay for them. as someone with a business account, if paypal were to find out that i was asking to be paid with a gift, or if i were to say "add 3% for paypal", i could lose my account.

**adimmen** · 04-01-2013, 08:39 AM

I honestly don't think many people (I certainly didn't) knew about the shipping issues you are discussing. I always used personal payments as a courtesy to the seller. Sure, they may have already figured the fee into the price but who will complain about getting extra money?