CAST Binding/Green Mountain Freeride/ Lars Chickering-Ayers Binding is live

[Timberridge]

If this takes off and I hope it will, dynafit toes will be a hot, hot item on Gear Swap. The heels you'll have to give away.

I'm sure its been thought about, but if not one thing that makes me nervous if I was Lars et al, is dynafit getting a legal boner about this (especially the drilling inserts part).

[XXX-er]

The thing is that the plates are drilled for radical toe piece ONLY so you will have to find a source of the toe piece only or break up a new binding cuz I doubt these will be found kicking round used

Telemark pyrennes sells vert toe pieces for 96Euro, they don't list any radical parts but you can probably get them and around 100 Euro is a reasonable guess ...so USD130$

[bsavery]

The thing is that the plates are drilled for radical toe piece ONLY so you will have to find a source of the toe piece only or break up a new binding cuz I doubt these will be found kicking round used

Telemark pyrennes sells vert toe pieces for 96Euro, they don't list any radical parts but you can probably get them and around 100 Euro is a reasonable guess ...so USD130$

CAST charges 175$ for the new toes (plates alone is 275, plates and toes 450.). Doesn't sound unreasonable. You can usually find speed radicals on gear swap for < 300

[DoWork]

Agree with above. What the hell difference does it mean to take the heel off? It keeps the heavy heel on the ski and not on your boot. Where are you going to put it? How big is your backpack to now hold 2 toes and 2 heels? If you want an AT heel them just ski an AT full-time.

I think it would be a waste of their resources to fulfill a very very small subsection of folks who would want this.

No, actually it's the other way around. The market for a fully swappable plate system DWARFS the market that wants it as-is. Just like having inserts but 10 second switchover time instead of a 10 minutes or more, and no danger of crossthreading in a cold parking lot either. The implications of a system like that reach well beyond the AT market.

With heel sliders, I could have it any way I wanted. Full alpine, toe-only uphill ascents, full dynafit for longer tours, or CAST as-is for slackcountry tours. Also to the idiots who don't understand even the most basic spatial relationship conundrums WHEN YOU REMOVE YOUR SKINS AND TOE PIECES FROM YOUR BAG, IT MAKES SPACE. Yes, that's right- that same space you were just using for skins can now be used for your FKS pieces! I know, crazy!! Also if you're on a longer tour, just use a full dyna rig and leave the fkn FKS at home. THAT is why I want them. Options out the ass.



Also, really wrestling with why I wouldn't just fill as needed, machine back into tolerance and redrill these plates myself for PLUMS. All I do all day (aside from being a douche on teh interwebz) is work with shit exactly like that. Fkn market for tech bindings just took a huge shit, and now people are selling Plums for ~$300 or less? What the fuck. I'd be eating my hat just to make the switch to radicals, then I'd be up shits creek again for the skis I already inserted for plums but can't afford plates for. Thankfully they're also inserted for fKS so I could theoretically add another cast system for them, but jesus I can barely afford to get one set.

Freakin' first world problems are kicking my ass right now.

[Lakelander]

Agree with Dowork on all points. Like some, I run a Sally/Plum set-up with all bindings attached to skis via inserts. I wish the CAST crew introduced this template combo now but understand their reasons for going with Look/Rossi/Dynafit Radical to start. If not already done, I'd recommend the mount plates attach to skis just like Sallyfit/Dynaduke plates do (outside binding screw pattern) to avoid existing insert/hole conflicts and to allow for future swop out to other binding options.

[DoWork]

^ I actually think using the radical toe pattern was a dick move. That said, I understand why that's what dynafit was willing to supply as a toe only option. Having the most-used hole pattern for tech bindings ever would mean people would likely already have something that would fit the plates. Can't sell your new bindings like that, as nobody would select the "Yes I want a low tech toe piece too" option obviously.

[alTAos]

If not already done, I'd recommend the mount plates attach to skis just like Sallyfit/Dynaduke plates do (outside binding screw pattern) to avoid existing insert/hole conflicts and to allow for future swop out to other binding options.

The current system mounts in the existing holes of the binding. One of the great things about the system. No need to redrill or have another set of holes.

In order to get to the point of the sliding heel piece, we need to fund this project first...they are well aware of the requests out there, and the market. But the original idea was a bomber touring setup...which has been made. Fund this, and the heel sliders will come. Don't fund this and we'll have to wait another few years for another company with funds to copy the idea and spend a few years testing and coming to production like we have with CAST. These guys are so close and if they can get the funds, it won't be hard to design the other requested systems.

In terms of the vert and plum toes, I do agree, that would be a nice addition now.

[DoWork]

In order to get to the point of the sliding heel piece, we need to fund this project first...they are well aware of the requests out there, and the market. But the original idea was a bomber touring setup...which has been made. Fund this, and the heel sliders will come. Don't fund this and we'll have to wait another few years for another company with funds to copy the idea and spend a few years testing and coming to production like we have with CAST. These guys are so close and if they can get the funds, it won't be hard to design the other requested systems.

This. Right here. All day.

[Lakelander]

I decided to step and fund this project-2 ski set up at $700. My concern, from market acceptance and initial funding standpoint, is that the initial set up excludes a large segment of the market that run bindings other than Look/Rossi/Tyrolia. The non Look/Rossi.Tyrolia segment have already invested in bindings and more importantly may have binding attachment screw patterns conflicts that make remounting a problem. My guess is that most that find the CAST system a worthwhile investment are also the same people that really care about mount locations and the number of holes they drill into their skis.

[kidwoo]

No, actually it's the other way around. The market for a fully swappable plate system DWARFS the market that wants it as-is. Just like having inserts but 10 second switchover time instead of a 10 minutes or more, and no danger of crossthreading in a cold parking lot either. The implications of a system like that reach well beyond the AT market.

With heel sliders, I could have it any way I wanted. Full alpine, toe-only uphill ascents, full dynafit for longer tours, or CAST as-is for slackcountry tours. Also to the idiots who don't understand even the most basic spatial relationship conundrums WHEN YOU REMOVE YOUR SKINS AND TOE PIECES FROM YOUR BAG, IT MAKES SPACE. Yes, that's right- that same space you were just using for skins can now be used for your FKS pieces! I know, crazy!! Also if you're on a longer tour, just use a full dyna rig and leave the fkn FKS at home. THAT is why I want them. Options out the ass.

That heelpiece is going to keep you from 'longer tours'? Really?

So even if you had the option to ski down some far away line with a burly alpine binding, you'd still choose to do it on dynafits some times?

Okay. I don't get it but that does answer the question I guess. I have long days too when I'm leaving the truck before sunrise and getting back at dark but I'd never in a million years CHOOSE to ski a full dynafit binding if I can just get the hiking side duplicated.

[gwat]

I decided to step and fund this project-2 ski set up at $700. My concern, from market acceptance and initial funding standpoint, is that the initial set up excludes a large segment of the market that run bindings other than Look/Rossi/Tyrolia. The non Look/Rossi.Tyrolia segment have already invested in bindings and more importantly may have binding attachment screw patterns conflicts that make remounting a problem. My guess is that most that find the CAST system a worthwhile investment are also the same people that really care about mount locations and the number of holes they drill into their skis.

Anyone not riding Turntables and Dynafits is really missing out on life.

[Beyond]

Someone with some street cred over at NS and Epic should repost over there

Will do for Epic.

[DoWork]

That heelpiece is going to keep you from 'longer tours'? Really?

So even if you had the option to ski down some far away line with a burly alpine binding, you'd still choose to do it on dynafits some times?

Okay. I don't get it but that does answer the question I guess. I have long days too when I'm leaving the truck before sunrise and getting back at dark but I'd never in a million years CHOOSE to ski a full dynafit binding if I can just get the hiking side duplicated.

I think the point is that it wouldn't be a burly line, and I think we can all agree that there are times when this system would be overkill. Most shit I ski isn't all that crazy and does not necessitate something beyond my Plums, but I am totally sick of having to swap between them using insert screws when I swap between FKN and Plums on the same ski. I'm not saying I wouldn't use them as-is, because I think this is by far the best slackcountry option out there- I'm saying I'd appreciate the option of using my full plum rig if I'm going on a longer tour that I'm not concerned for my life on and don't want 2.5 kilos of shit in my bag that I don't need. Why people are jumping on me for saying this is beyond me. Options are never a bad thing.

I'm not knocking the current iteration at all, I'm just saying all my gearwhore needs will be 100% met when I can have the ability to swap both toe and heel pieces between multiple sets of skis- and yes, given the choice I would totally choose full low tech over as-is on a long-ass tour that isn't insane. That and I could use my full-on AT boots, which the stride will obviously be better on.

Does that make sense??

[kidwoo]

It makes sense I just still don't see it being a make or break feature for whether you'd buy the setup or not. I almost wonder how easy it would be to modify they're plate to put in a quick release or a pin to do it once you get them.

All said, it does seem like it's not much of a reach to just go ahead and do it since they're making a heel plate for the alpine heel anyway. I wouldn't use it but it wouldn't be much more work from their standpoint.

You've probably already figured this out but a cut off allen wrench in a drill makes switching with inserts go lickety split. I can do my solly/dynafit switch in about 5 minutes. Switching my splitboard at the top of a hill takes longer.

I'll also admit that pretty much 100% of my long days are ONLY to burly lines.....couloirfornia and all that. That's the only stuff I'm going to spend all day walking to.

[Judo Chop!]

yup. options are good. you certainly don't NEED a removable heelpiece, but it would be a nice-to-have. For me, I'm happy to buy in to the first version and wait for that for another round down the road.

but can we talk about boots? Why the 'eff don't all AT boot manufacturers pull their heads out of their asses and let us have a tech insert and alpine soles at the same time?!?!? The cast guys have a good solution for sure, but they are having to do so to fix a problem that shouldn't exist.
BTW> anyone successfully figure out how to jam some Vulcans in a p18 and still get safe release??

[DoWork]

It makes sense I just still don't see it being a make or break feature for whether you'd buy the setup or not. I almost wonder how easy it would be to modify they're plate to put in a quick release or a pin to do it once you get them.

All said, it does seem like it's not much of a reach to just go ahead and do it since they're making a heel plate for the alpine heel anyway. I wouldn't use it but it wouldn't be much more work from their standpoint.

You've probably already figured this out but a cut off allen wrench in a drill makes switching with inserts go lickety split. I can do my solly/dynafit switch in about 5 minutes. Switching my splitboard at the top of a hill takes longer.

I'll also admit that pretty much 100% of my long days are ONLY to burly lines.....couloirfornia and all that. That's the only stuff I'm going to spend all day walking to.

Oh I totally hear you, and believe me it's not like I'm NOT buying in at this point because I totally am- I'll just be uber stoked when it goes the rest of the way. I don't use a drill to swap inserts though, as I am paranoid of stripping them and so would rather feel them by hand. I think the first time I slide and click the cast system in place, I'll probably jizz everywhere simply because I never have to fuck with an insert again.

[spknmike]

If this takes off and I hope it will, dynafit toes will be a hot, hot item on Gear Swap. The heels you'll have to give away.

I'm sure its been thought about, but if not one thing that makes me nervous if I was Lars et al, is dynafit getting a legal boner about this (especially the drilling inserts part).

You can buy Radical toes right now from Spark R&D..

[XXX-er]

^ I actually think using the radical toe pattern was a dick move. That said, I understand why that's what dynafit was willing to supply as a toe only option.

I would call it an unfortunate set of circumstances but what other move would a designer make because while it is still possible to buy a vert right now, it sounds like the vert is going away next year, SO does it make sense to manufacture a plate to accommodate a binding that is no longer available ?


I am not that up on the difference between a vert and a rad, is it just the 5th screw up front that secures the front lever and so could they make the plate fit either/or ??

[DoWork]

I it sounds like the vert is going away next year, SO does it make sense to manufacture a plate to accommodate a binding that is no longer available

Hmmm, I did not know that hole pattern was on the chopping block. Still though, do you make it according to what everyone already has or do you make it for what everyone will have in a few years? In a startup sense, I can't help but think the former may have been a better call, but hey- I'm just some asshat who's armchairing this- and who's still giving CAST their money anyways. I obviously don't know all the details nor am I an expert on, well, anything really.

[kidwoo]

I am not that up on the difference between a vert and a rad, is it just the 5th screw up front that secures the front lever and so could they make the plate fit either/or ??

It's a wider hole pattern. Ideally they'd just sell the plates duplicating a modern dynafit jig pattern. There are a lot more dynafit options out there that fit the old pattern than the radical pattern.

[XXX-er]

I know verts fit the inserts in my stokes so in other words a radical wouldn't fit the inserts in a stoke, I'm pretty sure I have seen rads on a stoke ?

Don't the holes have steel inserts pressed in them so its not just extra hole in a plate ??

Being an expert on nothing, is something ...make it work for you

[arild]

Thank you everyone* for making my ideal (touring) setup come true!

(*and CAST)

KidWoo, I agree with everything you´re saying. I think that a swappable heel would be nice, too, but not for touring. Just for the ability to stuff more skis into a bag with only the one binding set. Now, who to coerce into pledging some of their hard earned money into this cause?

This is the closest thing to an easily swappable system binding anyone has ever come up with. Blizzard had their IQ, but that meant a lot more height than 7mm, this is fucking brilliant. I´m almost certain the Cast crew will oblige us with a swappable heel, but let´s give them all of our money and some time first.

If you have any questions about the system, voice them here, and if you don´t get your answer, send a message through kickstarter. I´ve gotten the answers to my questions really fast going that route.

Just to regurgitate:
-Solly and Marker systems/plates will be available in 2014. FKS/P18 and Tyrolia/Head go first, and if fully funded through kickstarter, ready for the 13/14 season.
-People who pledge (pledgees?) get their gear first.
-Lars is investigating boot fitters in Europe to see who can do the boot toe conversions. I think he´d be grateful for beta on that, so centraleuropeans, chime in. I´ve tried pointing him in the right direction for middle-northern Norway (Trondheim and northwards), but I know fuck-all about the go-to-guys in western, southern and eastern Norway. The market in my country could potentially be huge (as far as huge can go in a country with 5 million citizens).
-This is so ridiculously fucking awesome even a few people on epic (they could be mags in disguise, though) are starting to take notice.
-If you pledge $1000 USD, you get a much burlier, and less likely to fail catastrophically, binding system than the Beast - Tyrolia 18 DIN is the real deal, as is FKS, as is Salomon Drivers. You also won´t prerelease, ever, and you´re not connected to your ski with pins. Think on that. They weigh a pound or so more each ski, but that´s not something you´re really going to notice, since you´re not lifting that weight anyway. Two toe pieces in the pack hardly weighs much.

Some of this might just be my horrendously fanboy claims.

[LC]

-Lars is investigating boot fitters in Europe to see who can do the boot toe conversions... The market in my country could potentially be huge (as far as huge can go in a country with 5 million citizens).

I'm not sure. There is no such thing as "sidecountry" here and the touring mindset is pretty different.

My opinion is that Dynafit works fine for everything when skied appropriately, ie. don't jump off anything big onto hard snow, don't ski sketchy snow flat-out, and lock the toes occasionally while understanding the risk of doing so. I can live with that, and agree with DoWork above that carrying the extra weight up the hill (be it on the skis on in the backpack) compared to a Dynafit rig isn't worth the extra burl for the down (looks like 3.1 to 3.9kg extra weight if you count the weight of plug boots instead of stiff touring boots, but Salomon compatibility would change that). This isn't a "no compromise system", just a no compromise mechanism for the up and the down at the expense of weight and cost. Whether that's a worthwhile tradeoff is down to personal judgement.

Still, good luck to the CAST guys and well done for bringing a product to market which there seems to be somewhat of a demand for.

[bsavery]

Thank you everyone* for making my ideal (touring) setup come true!

Hear hear

you get a much burlier, and less likely to fail catastrophically, binding system than the Beast -.

Hypothetically yes, I agree. But BOTH systems need more public testing to be sure about reliability.

You guys sure complain alot for a system that does 99% of what most of us want.

[marshalolson]

It's a wider hole pattern. Ideally they'd just sell the plates duplicating a modern dynafit jig pattern. There are a lot more dynafit options out there that fit the old pattern than the radical pattern.

yeah man, i don't see why the toe plates can't just have vertical AND radical holes - and fit plum too that way. no brainer IMO.