Hardpack, crud, corn and bump oriented daily driver - ON3P Tychoon?

**nexus6** · 03-10-2013, 11:09 PM

I'd like to fill a hole in my quiver especially since spring will soon be arriving. Looking for a ski so I can have more fun on hardpack, corn and marginal chopped up crud conditions, quick edge to edge and not too demanding or long for the bumps and playing around but will still hold a high speed carve on the groom. I usually don't bother going up unless there's 6" plus and I'm looking for a ski that will help me change that attitude and have fun on "regular" days.

Me:

215 lbs, 6'1"
Skiing style: Fast and aggressive powder and crud skier, like to flow with the terrain and pop off natural features but don't really go big.
40

Places I ski: PNW and B.C.

Current Quiver

- ON3P Billy Goat 191 (My go to when it's 6"+. I LOVE this ski ... except on hardpack and bumps, it's especially bad in the bumps)
- Dynafit Huascaran 196 (Touring powder ski, fun and light)
- Sportiva Hi5 188 (Volcano ski, light and versatile)
- K2 Hardside 188 (I hate this ski, it's the one being replaced. Hooky, dead and chattery all at the same time)

Boots: Lange RS 130

Going to demo the ON3P Tychoon 186. Other ideas?

**steveski** · 03-10-2013, 11:41 PM

Tycoon could be good but how about the Viciks? My daily driver and an excellent one for the PNW.

**klauss** · 03-11-2013, 12:15 AM

I love my 3 pairs of ON3Ps. Don't own the tychoon, but my want to try skis for what you are asking is the Blizzard Brahma and the Kastle MX 88.

**pow314** · 03-11-2013, 01:10 AM

Get a 185 cochise, or I 193 if you want a bit more length. It's exactly what you described. Quick, stable and carves like a fatter race ski. It's the perfect hard-snow/few days after the storm ski.

**nexus6** · 03-11-2013, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by canwilf

..... YES!

(if you left out the word 'hardpack', then I'd say go Vicik. You have a great quiver and the Tychoon would fit that niche perfectly)

Yep, I'm thinking the Vicik would be a great quiver of one, but since I have the Goats I want something slimmer. Might demo both for a comparison though. It's always nice to have a bit of float even a few days after the dump in case you find a patch of deep somewhere.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Time to get out and demo. Anyone interested in some twice mounted barely used K2 Hardsides cheap? They're GREAT skis

**dfinn** · 03-11-2013, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by pow314

Get a 185 cochise, or I 193 if you want a bit more length. It's exactly what you described. Quick, stable and carves like a fatter race ski. It's the perfect hard-snow/few days after the storm ski.

+1 this is what I opened this thread up to post

**Lord Thomas** · 03-11-2013, 03:11 PM

I'm about your size, use RS 130, and end up skiing a lot of leftovers like you described. My brief experience on the Tychoon is that it is not at all damp like you are looking for. Get's pushed around pretty readily. My go to, daily driver is a 185 Cochise. It is at least a good answer to just about any question.

Having been to the last 3 PNW dealer demo days and skied nearly all of the 98's out there I think you should take a good look at the Bonafide, Hell & Back, E98 and Mantra. To my mind these 3 stand out head and shoulders above the rest. In that order I would describe them going from "sort a" forgiving and versatile to directional carvers and less forgiving. All of them will really carve. (On soft groomers I'm able to drag my hand on my Cochise, and each of these is a better carver than the Cochise) Bone is the most versatile with respect to turn shape, smears and pivots with little more than a thought. Hell & Back, no metal, is the least damp, but substantially more than a Tychoon, and carves like race bred machine (better than the Bone). If you want to have no issues in trees and bumps go with the Bone or Hellen. If you are in wide open spaces and want to rip, the Mantra and E98 kick ass. Mantra has the stiff tail that fires you out of the turn (great fun in the right place) but will kick your ass in the bumps and tight trees (the E98 is nearly as stiff and unforgiving). As far as dampness goes I would rate them from least to most: Hellen, Mantra, Bone = E98. For punching 6" of leftovers all of them are really good, especially the Bone, E98 and Mantra. For versatility, which is what 98's are all about, I would rate them from least to most: Mantra, E98, Hellen, Bone. Hope that helps a little.

LT

**nexus6** · 03-11-2013, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

I'm about your size, use RS 130, and end up skiing a lot of leftovers like you described. My brief experience on the Tychoon is that it is not at all damp like you are looking for. Get's pushed around pretty readily. My go to, daily driver is a 185 Cochise. It is at least a good answer to just about any question.

Having been to the last 3 PNW dealer demo days and skied nearly all of the 98's out there I think you should take a good look at the Bonafide, Hell & Back, E98 and Mantra. To my mind these 3 stand out head and shoulders above the rest. In that order I would describe them going from "sort a" forgiving and versatile to directional carvers and less forgiving. All of them will really carve. (On soft groomers I'm able to drag my hand on my Cochise, and each of these is a better carver than the Cochise) Bone is the most versatile with respect to turn shape, smears and pivots with little more than a thought. Hell & Back, no metal, is the least damp, but substantially more than a Tychoon, and carves like race bred machine (better than the Bone). If you want to have no issues in trees and bumps go with the Bone or Hellen. If you are in wide open spaces and want to rip, the Mantra and E98 kick ass. Mantra has the stiff tail that fires you out of the turn (great fun in the right place) but will kick your ass in the bumps and tight trees (the E98 is nearly as stiff and unforgiving). As far as dampness goes I would rate them from least to most: Hellen, Mantra, Bone = E98. For punching 6" of leftovers all of them are really good, especially the Bone, E98 and Mantra. For versatility, which is what 98's are all about, I would rate them from least to most: Mantra, E98, Hellen, Bone. Hope that helps a little.

LT

Hmm, I'm surprised to hear that the Tycoon get's pushed around. My Billygoats absolutely kills it in cut up crud. Just destroys it. If there's 6" of leftovers I'll be on the Goats. The construction of the Tycoon and the Goat are the same right? Not super into skis with metal. I've demoed Mantras and didn't like them at all. Similar feeling to the K2's. Dead and planky.

**Beast_Coast** · 03-11-2013, 07:24 PM

was going to make the same thread. I live on the easy coast and want another ski for the spring, bumps, and tight tracked out trees. I was up at Jay all weekend and wanted some skinny boards for the hardpack and bumps.

I love my Armada TST's but I've learned that they just don't perform in warm, wet, mashed potatoes and slow bumps.

I was thinking about a Volkl Kendo. I don't know why anyone would suggest the Cochise, or any other ski that's 100+ underfoot for what your describing.

**bestskieratsnowbird** · 03-11-2013, 08:18 PM

4frnt devastator. worth waiting till next year. super easy and fun on groomers, really mindless to ski in all conditions.

**54-46** · 03-11-2013, 08:34 PM

Find an old pair of AK King Salmons. 95mm waist; 180 length; 24m TR.

**CascadeConcrete** · 03-11-2013, 08:45 PM

Though I love my goats as well I have to agree on the post above on Demo Days tests. I have also been to the last 3 and thought I am a big supporter of the ON3P boys my choice for the last 2 years in the size your looking for is the Blizzard Bonfides.
I have wanted to hate that ski every time I picked it up because of all the hype, but it is one of the very few cases where it not only lives up to it but surpasses it. It will hard charge, trench turns, and loves pretty much any turn shape.
The tycoon was great but for an all a rounder there are better choices.

**54-46** · 03-11-2013, 10:34 PM

I owned the Bonafide and a Dynastar Legend 94 and thought the Legend 94 was better in bumps; they were equal in crud and on groomers; Legend 94 better in trees. IMO, Bonafide was good ski but I liked the Legend 94 better for half the price.

Other skis to consider: Stockli SS, XXXL, or VXL. Verbier had good reviews on these.

SB · 03-12-2013, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by sneaky_steve

how about the Viciks? My daily driver and an excellent one for the PNW.

+1 for the Vicik

**wcf3** · 03-12-2013, 10:50 AM

The ski I use now for the type of skiing you are describing is the Moment PB&J. It is not going to be as good a carver as a cochise or mantra, but will probably be a better ski in bumps, crud and any deep snow you take them into. Of course, whether a ski will feel 'better' or 'worse' for you will depend on your particular skiing style. If you favor an aggressive forward stance, something with a more tradition rocker and more tail (such as a cochise) will probably feel better than a more rockered shape like the PB&J, which is best driven with a more neutral weighting (particularly on hard snow).

A review can be found at: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...182?highlight=

Blister also has an extensive review of the PB&J.

**nexus6** · 03-12-2013, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by scottyb

+1 for the Vicik

Ok, so why the Vicik over the Tycoon?

I'm getting a lot of recommendations for 100+ mm skis here. Remember I have a the Billygoats for crud if things aren't hard and bumped out. Although I don't want something that's a submarine if I find some stashes of deep, but the priority is playing in the bumps, carving the groom and corn and basic bombing around. Unfortunately adding more fat powder skis to my quiver won't make it snow more

**Ted Striker** · 03-12-2013, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by nexus6

Ok, so why the Vicik over the Tycoon?

I'm getting a lot of recommendations for 100+ mm skis here. Remember I have a the Billygoats for crud if things aren't hard and bumped out. Although I don't want something that's a submarine if I find some stashes of deep, but the priority is playing in the bumps, carving the groom and corn and basic bombing around. Unfortunately adding more fat powder skis to my quiver won't make it snow more

-1 for the vicik, for the reasons you stated in this ^^^ post.

To me the vicik is the grab it and go ski. It's never the exact right ski for the conditions, but it's never totally wrong either. If you are only going to own one pair of skis, you could do a hell of a lot worse. At times I have seller's remorse over selling mine, because it would make traveling a lot easier. (on a pow day, I'd still miss my billy goats though)

Since you already own billy goats, and aren't looking for a quiver-of-one ski, and you're saying bumps, I'd say Tycoon or something even narrower.

**Lord Thomas** · 03-12-2013, 07:44 PM

Something in the 88-98 range is the place to look. I didn't recommend the Cochise, only used it as an example. I'm looking for a similar ski and the 4 that I mentioned are at the top of my list.

**Bird Blaster** · 03-12-2013, 08:02 PM

I picked bonafide for a more frontside application. Seems like a decent ski but only a handfull of days so far

**XavierD** · 03-12-2013, 10:54 PM

I agree with pistoff. I own 191 BGs and 186 Viciks. Both are awesome skis and worth owning. I can ski in just about any condition on either of them. That said, I find that during the snowy months (Dec, March, April) I am pretty much skiing the BGs every day. If I wanted to compliment it for a two ski resort quiver,the Vicik would not be my choice; I'd want something narrower.

I have not skied the Tychoon, but it is on the short list of skis to try. From what I have skied, I think the 88-98 range is good. Blizzard offerings are currently towards the top, as is the Nordica Enforcer, Leged 94, and the new Head.

Currently I'd buy a skinnier version of the new Nordica El Capo if they make it, or the legend 94.

**Lindahl** · 03-13-2013, 03:51 AM

I'd go even narrower to next years Brahma or Magnum 8.5ti over the Bonafide. In this range, I actually really liked the K2 Sideshow if you're going to find some random fresh. Not your typical K2. The Moment Tahoe was really close to a good ski, but needs more beef and to lose the huge twin. The 188 might have faired better. The old Volkl Explosiv is pretty fun too if you like to still charge on hard days, but you have to know how to really ski bumps.

I'd like to try the Tychoon, but I'm not gonna drop that kind of coin without getting on one first. ON3P has gotten really expensive the past few years. Kind of a shame, as they make good shit. Deals on them are far and few between, gotta go used these days.

**BushwackerinPA** · 03-13-2013, 04:09 AM

I have 2 days on a 180cm Brahma. there will be 187 as well although for me at 165lb 5"11 at Stowe I thought the 180 was perfect and IMO would be good for it purpose in that size for me even at western mountains.

Gobs of edge grip, REALLY damp,really quick edge to edge and stable. Has enough float for minor amount of powder the rockered tip come to the surface alot easier than the 8.5 mags Ti I own.

**Dkla52** · 03-13-2013, 04:28 AM

+1 on Vicik
I was having the same thoughts you are having. I wanted a ski for the same conditions and some thing narrower in fact way narrower than my Bibby Pro 190. That's my go to ski and I just love that ski. In fact I'm buying it in 184 as we speak (for very tight chutes)
I came across the Vicik and I absolutely love this ski. The thing is I don't feel I have 107 underfoot; it feels like I have 99 mm underfoot. IN MY OPINION, if you ski the Billy Goat more often than not, you are some what used to having 115+ underfoot and if you drop to sometging way narrower, it feels way too different than what you are used to.
The vicik doesnt ski like a 107 underfoot. I'm 5'10'' 170 lbs and I ski the 186 and it really rips everything and I like it even in bumps. I have the 11/12 version which is stiffer than this year's model. The line is -13 cm off the true center so it kinda has that traditional ski feel to it

Sent from my SPH-L900 using TGR Forums

**critical-motion** · 03-13-2013, 08:36 AM

+0 on the Vicik.

While I agree that it skis like a 99mm waisted ski and is easy to get on edge, the waist is a little fat in bumps and I can only imagine how awesome the 10mm narrower Tychoon would be on groomers based off how the Vicik is. Slightly tighter turn radius and quicker edge to edge but with the same rocker profile sounds perfect to me.

I won't deny that Viciks are easy in bumps for their size, but I truly wonder how many people here actually ski zipper-line bumps ON PURPOSE with Viciks?! I'm talking top to bottom bump runs, not just cutting across a bump run to get to freshies. I have 89mm waist 183 Scott Punishers for bumps and hard carving (14m turn radius) and they are much quicker down bumps than my slightly shorter and just as light 176cm Viciks.

There's nothing wrong with adding a <100mm waist ski to a quiver, except for the fact that it makes you less hardcore on TGR

**Lindahl** · 03-13-2013, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Dkla52

IN MY OPINION, if you ski the Billy Goat more often than not, you are some what used to having 115+ underfoot and if you drop to sometging way narrower, it feels way too different than what you are used to.

Isn't that the point? Have a very different ski for the very different conditions? Might want to elaborate.