AT Boot Comparative Flex by model (updated)

[LeeLau]

might be too early but someone may have spent time south of the equator in some. anyone care to guess where the new scarpa f1 evo would rank ? may go spectres or tlt6 for my light boots but that evo is lighttt and slick . always liked and trusted scarpa and my freedoms are awesome

Grinch i just reviewed one last year in spring but had limited time because the uncertain snowpack made me hang it up early. I'd put it as stiff as the mango Maestrale. It fit basically the same as the Freedom.

[grinch]

Grinch i just reviewed one last year in spring but had limited time because the uncertain snowpack made me hang it up early. I'd put it as stiff as the mango Maestrale. It fit basically the same as the Freedom.

shit that sounds good for both fit and flex. 10 below what scarpa rate them for flex makes sense and just 5 below the quadrants I had(per comparative flex rating in op)and I wouldn't be surprised if its a more consistent flex. shop guy wasn't sure but told me he thought they might have a racy'r fit than my freedom but scarpa calls it a similar last(101 I think). I know instep is lower in sl's then rs' so I wouldn't expect the instep to be lower in evo. my freedoms are fine but I wouldn't want any lower for instep. I just won't be able to try before I buy as he wasn't getting any in but said he'd order me a pair. he's getting spectres and tlt6's in so i'll try them on but evo is sounding better.
thanks much for the response. the scarpa ad for the review you did in the spring just last week popped up on my fb feed. I left a couple comments/questions on there but couldn't find the review again on here. figured it must've been a while ago. thanks again

[LeeLau]

i wrote that review up for TGR. It should be out soon. Here's a snippet

"For the 2014-15 ski season Scarpa released the new-look Scarpa F1 EVO touring boot. Its intended audience are touring-focused skiers who want light-weight gear coupled with decent downhill performance. The boot is a complete makeover of the older F1. It boldly incorporates different technologies such as; (i) a cable BOA style closure; (ii) a "Tronic" automatic system which converts the boot from walk to ski mode just by clicking into bindings; and (iii) carbon spine construction to promote stiffness.

The bottom line is that the Scarpa F1 Evo will undoubtedly be a boot that will spark opinions; some will love it - some will debunk it. Arguably as stiff as the older mango Maestrale the boot will be almost 350g lighter per foot. At a MSRP of USD 699 the boot is reasonably priced for something so light and stiff; time will tell whether the F1 Evo will also be durable. The Scarpa F1 Evo will be in sizes 24.5-31 men's and 21.5-27 women's. "


and

"In terms of downhill performance this more recent F1 iteration kicks the ass of the older bellowed F1. Instead of the limp vagueness of the older boot the F1 Evo is staggeringly laterally stiff. Lateral stiffness is something that's hard to assess in carpet-testing in ski shop showrooms and tends to show up when you lay your skis (and boots down sideways at speed). In this aspect of boot performance I'd go as far as to say that the F1 Evo is as stiff as the orange/mango Scarpa Maestrale.

This is high praise indeed but I would caveat that the Scarpa F1 Evo, to me, skis very abruptly. It's an on/off boot in terms of fore/aft stiffness. The F1 Evo is not overly forgiving and I found it best to drive the boots and skis from the cuff when one encountered variable snow. The factory lean setting in particular moves body position overly forward perhaps contributing to that lack of forgiveness. Accordingly I found my comfort with the F1 Evo to grow in the couple of days I had the boot set all the way back to a 16 deg forward lean setting. So caveat my criticism with the knowledge that I was just beginning to tune it for my skiing preferences.

Another caveat is theoretical. Tech bindings can insta-tele when mounted on soft skis - ie the soft ski hits a depression, the ski compresses and decambers, and the boot comes out of the binding. If that happens the F1 Evo will go into walk mode. With a boot with such a remarkable walk mode this will likely result in an impressive tomahawk. This is all very theoretical as I didn't have the opportunity to test my G3 Spitfire, Dynafit Vertical, Scarpa F1 Evo in icy moguls to test for insta-tele performance but one should be aware that the "Tronic" automatic walk mode/ski mode feature has that potential downside."

[grinch]

shit , how did I miss the mastraele comparison. I must of focused on the "performance fit heel and narrower forefoot than spirit3"(I liked my spirits) but I think that just might be my fit(scarpa narrow). still gun shy from my old quadrant purchase but I have until November to decide on these. this helps immensely

[Lindahl]

After a few days of skiing it, I'd put the Atomic Backland Carbon at 95. And put it at 105 if you use Intuition Pro Tour liners. Slightly stiffer than the 6P in that form. Slightly less stiff in stock form. Great boot, but the stock liner is holding it back.

[CaliBrit]

Just to comment, and it might as well be here as it is in a Cochise, I feel a power wrap liner is worth like 20 flex points, at least 15.

[eskido]

Nickel, how are your MX's holding up? Seriously considering pullin the trigger on these but have heard durability issues and also issues with snow/water leaking through?? Anyone else have any of these issues? Pros-Cons??

[rod9301]

I have the mx 130's, ski great, tour well.

I did have some leaks where the overlap is, but adding some foam fixed it.

I had power wraps, but they restricted the range, so I switched to pro tour liners. They are dreamy.

Great boot, and it fits.

No durability issues, and I skied about 30 days on them.

[eskido]

What kind of foam? Did you have to add it under the overlap? With a high instep that could be a deal breaker for me??

[1000-oaks]

It's not on the list yet, but the 2015 Cochise 110 (with stock liner) is softer than the Maestrale RS, and has a smoother, springy feel in both directions.

[gregL]

After wearing them for a while in the showroom, I'm going with 130 (maybe even more) for the Khion Carbon, 110 for the Khion MS, and 95 for the Winter Guide (all 2016 Dynafit boots). The Khions feel very slightly narrower than the Vulcan/Mercury in the forefoot, not as tall in the toebox, moderately more relaxed over the instep, and quite a bit wider in the medial midfoot. I tried the 27.5 samples in all the boots (I wear a 27.5 in the Mercury and TLT6) but might try to drop to a 26.5 in the Khion.

[swissiphic]

I tried the 27.5 samples in all the boots (I wear a 27.5 in the Mercury and TLT6) but might try to drop to a 26.5 in the Khion.

may I ask, potentially drop down a size due to increased perceived internal length volume, just general volume increase, or too volumous in other specific areas of concern?

[gregL]

may I ask, potentially drop down a size due to increased perceived internal length volume, just general volume increase, or too volumous in other specific areas of concern?

Mostly because of more relaxed instep dimensions, which forced me to go with the 27.5 in the Mercury. I wear a 26.5 in most alpine boots, measure just a touch over 27.5 on the Brannock, have wide and flat feet (102-103mm).

[LeeLau]

Updated the thread for these new boots. Agree with Lindahl re the Backland Carbon but I only had three days on them

Agreed with Gregl re Khion carbon with 22 days on them

Anyone want to chime in re the Salomon Mtn Lab line of boots?

After a few days of skiing it, I'd put the Atomic Backland Carbon at 95. And put it at 105 if you use Intuition Pro Tour liners. Slightly stiffer than the 6P in that form. Slightly less stiff in stock form. Great boot, but the stock liner is holding it back.

After wearing them for a while in the showroom, I'm going with 130 (maybe even more) for the Khion Carbon, 110 for the Khion MS, and 95 for the Winter Guide (all 2016 Dynafit boots). The Khions feel very slightly narrower than the Vulcan/Mercury in the forefoot, not as tall in the toebox, moderately more relaxed over the instep, and quite a bit wider in the medial midfoot. I tried the 27.5 samples in all the boots (I wear a 27.5 in the Mercury and TLT6) but might try to drop to a 26.5 in the Khion.

Put this one in too but admit I don't know it at all

It's not on the list yet, but the 2015 Cochise 110 (with stock liner) is softer than the Maestrale RS, and has a smoother, springy feel in both directions.

[gregL]

I give the MTN Lab a 115+ after a number of touring days and a couple lift served days. It skis better than any AT boot I've owned (it isn't all about forward stiffness), mostly because of the progressive "overlap" quality of the flex.

[USMC71]

I made the mistake of buying the Scarpa Pegasus AT boot when I have an Alpine binding. The boot is amazing, but apparently it's not a good thing to have an AT boot in a non AT binding. Oops rookie mistake.

[adrenalated]

I call bullshit on the TLT6P being only 5 points softer than the Maestrale RS. Skied both back to back today, same run. At least 15 points different.

In other news, how can I make a TLT6P (with tongue) way stiffer?

[mall walker]

I call bullshit on the TLT6P being only 5 points softer than the Maestrale RS. Skied both back to back today, same run. At least 15 points different.

In other news, how can I make a TLT6P (with tongue) way stiffer?

I put booster straps on mine and am quite happy with the difference it has made, I suppose booster + intuition is the stock answer to your question though.

[adrenalated]

I put booster straps on mine and am quite happy with the difference it has made, I suppose booster + intuition is the stock answer to your question though.

Cool. I'm thinking world cup booster and intuition pro tours. They're unskiable for me right now.

[mall walker]

I used whatever the second highest booster is (this is my first time using boosters) and it's a significant improvement. It is also easy to over tighten the straps and cut off all circulation to my feet.

I'm surprised you are so displeased with the TLT6P, I thought you were around my size (not enormous) and that it would be enough boot for you... probably you ski a lot harder than me though.

[adrenalated]

I'm surprised you are so displeased with the TLT6P, I thought you were around my size (not enormous) and that it would be enough boot for you... probably you ski a lot harder than me though.

Nah, I just use a stiff boot and ski to compensate for my lack of ability.

[LeeLau]

I call bullshit on the TLT6P being only 5 points softer than the Maestrale RS. Skied both back to back today, same run. At least 15 points different.

In other news, how can I make a TLT6P (with tongue) way stiffer?

I'm surprised the TLT6P TLT5P, Backland are all rated so high looking back at this - especially when compared to the Maestrale.

The only boot I haven't used in that list is the TLT6P and I would have rated the mango Maestrale at least as stiff as the TLT5P. Perhaps even stiffer. Weird - don't know how to explain this. BTW I didn't rate the TLT6P - I just collected ratings from others.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I'm surprised the TLT6P TLT5P, Backland are all rated so high looking back at this - especially when compared to the Maestrale.

The only boot I haven't used in that list is the TLT6P and I would have rated the mango Maestrale at least as stiff as the TLT5P. Perhaps even stiffer. Weird - don't know how to explain this. BTW I didn't rate the TLT6P - I just collected ratings from others.

I agree. Orange Maestrale skis definitely skis bigger than TLT5 Mountain.

[cooks]

Those three boots are waaay out of line. Saying the tlt6p is as stiff as a cochise pro light is a hilarious joke.

IMO - the pro light is a pretty honest benchmark 115. I'd put the mercury and maestrale rs somewhere in the range of 105-110, 6p and backland should be ~90, 5p maybe 85?

Either way, all of those boots have such different flex patterns that it's really apples to oranges no matter what. It's kind of hard to make any particularly useful comparison with a single number.

[LeeLau]

Those three boots are waaay out of line. Saying the tlt6p is as stiff as a cochise pro light is a hilarious joke.

IMO - the pro light is a pretty honest benchmark 115. I'd put the mercury and maestrale rs somewhere in the range of 105-110, 6p and backland should be ~90, 5p maybe 85?

Either way, all of those boots have such different flex patterns that it's really apples to oranges no matter what. It's kind of hard to make any particularly useful comparison with a single number.

yah its been a while since I looked at the list as a whole but those three boots are whack. it might be as simple a thing as people remembering or rating the newer boots more fondly than the older boots. The Maestrale was pretty stiff for its time and even now I'd rate it as pretty good for someone light for pow. My gut feel is that you're right about Maestrale RS/mercury being about 105. And Maestrale being about 85.

I'd actually put TLT5P below Maestrale at about 80. Backland around the same as Maestrale. So where does that leave TLT6P? Adrenalated? I've only carpet tested the TLT6P. Maybe this is just hair splitting but I gotta agree that those three boot;s stiffness rating are whack

Anyhow I won't change them till i get more input. Also anyone else with feedback on Salomon other than Greg? I trust his rating but it'd be nice to hear from others