AT Boot Comparative Flex by model (updated)

[shafty85]

I've been using lace up liners from my dh boots with the normal strap and no tongue on mine. I've used the tongue but the flex felt too on - off. I'm thinking about grinding the stops out of mine to see if that helps, undecided on the booster addition right now. Mostly I need more time on them to tinker

Ground the stops off mine - felt the flex was way smoother, though obviously a bit softer, but I feel it stiffens nicely and predictably. Wouldn't ski them inbounds like that, but that's not what they're designed for and not what I do with them. Perhaps the Vulcan would fit that bill, but I've never had the chance to try them.

[XXX-er]

I didnt like the mercury without a tongue

I don't have the link but some body with a blog wrote about grinding out the stops on a mercury after which he found them too soft

so he made the boot stiffer/more progressive for the down by retro fitting a Raichle tongue

which makes more sense to me than just making the boot into an irreversible noodle

but ... ymmv as they say

[abraham]

I didnt like the mercury without a tongue

I don't have the link but some body with a blog wrote about grinding out the stops on a mercury after which he found them too soft

so he made the boot stiffer/more progressive for the down by retro fitting a Raichle tongue

which makes more sense to me than just making the boot into an irreversible noodle

but ... ymmv as they say

Yeah, that could be but I find the lace up liners add some support to the boot. I only use them for day trips but that's all I've done so far. I think a progressive feel has to involve removing the stops, mostly they bug me because they flex until they don't. I think I have some stiff tongues lying around too

Plus I got the boots used for a great deal and have no problem adding and removing things as needed.

[shafty85]

I didnt like the mercury without a tongue

I don't have the link but some body with a blog wrote about grinding out the stops on a mercury after which he found them too soft

so he made the boot stiffer/more progressive for the down by retro fitting a Raichle tongue

which makes more sense to me than just making the boot into an irreversible noodle

but ... ymmv as they say

Yeah, I think that was someone on blister or the now defunct... Can't recall the website... Was run by a mag... Earlyups! Got it. It was Jeff Brines on Earlyups. He removed the stops because of the non-progressive flex. My interpretation was that he found the stock tongue not progressive enough, more than not stiff enough, though he did appreciate the added stiffness with the modded tongue.

In case anyone is interested:

http://earlyups.com/gear-dynafit-mercury-review/

I can definitely see it being too soft without having the booster strap - the flex comes from that (not that piece of junk stock strap) and the stiffness of the spine. Personally, I find it a much nicer boot this way. Perfect, no. Better/very good, yes. But, as you said, YMMV.

[XXX-er]

my velcro powerstraps fell off on day 2 and since I can't feel a difference anyhow I have left them off my mercurys and now same with the Vulcans which makes transitions easier

the last vulcans made have removable stops and most people don't bother with the tongues

but like I said YMMV and people should think hard about grinding stops cuz you can't add them back but at least you can get them back to reasonable stiffness with a dalbello tongue

I don't understand why you bought a boot like the mercury in the 1st place if you wanted a noodle?

[shafty85]

With the booster strap, it isn't a noodle because you are locked onto the stiff spine... Which is stiffer than the tongue. I find, with or without a tongue, there is way too much slop without a strap and the booster just locks me into the spine way better than the stock strap.

As we both agreed, YMMV, but I'd disagree that it is a noodle without a tongue, the caveat being that you need a booster strap/similar to achieve the stiffness and a way nicer, smoother, flex.

[XXX-er]

That top buckle is whats locking the spine & cuff together every time you close it before you can even get the Booster strap done up, I do use the strongest booster straps on my 4 buckle alpines, I haven't bothered on the Dynafit boots

yeah what some consider not noodle is noodle for others

I know I can go down a lot further/faster with the tongues in

[harpo-the-skier]

Can anyone guess where the TLT7 fits on this list?

[tBatt]

Transalp and MTN Labs?

[gregL]

Can anyone guess where the TLT7 fits on this list?

I can guess 95-100, based on wearing it twice (once in the Dynafit showroom, once in a cold parking lot) but in a size probably 1 larger than I would buy.

[harpo-the-skier]

Thanks gregL. Do you think it tour as well as the 5 and 6 in terms of ankle mobility?

[gregL]

Thanks gregL. Do you think it tour as well as the 5 and 6 in terms of ankle mobility?

I don't own the TLT7, but from walking around the shop in it I'd say maybe a bit better mobility. But I don't take the tongues out of either the 5 or 6, just cut them down in height and put the power strap in back.

[LeeLau]

Can anyone guess where the TLT7 fits on this list?

I'd side with Greg's guess but put it even softer at say around 90. It's softer than TLT6 P imo

Transalp and MTN Labs?

Dunno about Transalp but that Mtn Lab is stiff. That 120 feels right. Just 6 days on it though so far

[LeeLau]

Anyone able to provide dynafit numbers for without the tongues? I've given up on changing over with my mercuries and just leave them at home now - added booster strap to compensate some. I have a feel for how my mercuries ski, but can't compare them to the other boots, sorry.

My WAG is that tongues add about 20. But note that the Vulcan Mercury tongues are different than the TLT5/6 tongues. I stuck a note in the Vulcan/Mercury ratings but not in the TLT5 and TLT6 ratings. Like I said before it gets bewildering if throwing up all the different permutations and I'm trying hard to keep this complicated and blackmagic topic as simple as possible.

I just noticed that there is no TLT6M on the front page. This is from further up the thread...

Added TLT6M - thanks for pointing that out. Added TLT7 too but would like more data on that so reserve the right to move that around as more input provided. Also added Tecnica ZeroG Guide Pro. Would appreciate input for for Backland Carbon (and other variants), F1, TLT6 and all other boots.

I also tried to look at the list with fresh eyes. I wanted to leave in older boots as so many people have them and know of them so they're useful for comparison - and this isn't a science experiment but a relative comparison gut feel list.

So I moved around a few of the older popular boots to keep them as baselines. Eg Scarpa Mango Maestrale, BD Quadrant, BD Factor, Dynafit ZZero, Titan etc. Sanity checks on what I did appreciated. Anything there looks wildly out of line.

Don't be shy. I'm just trying to administer this - its' meant to be a collective effort so please chime in especially if you have or owned one or more of these boots

[nyskirat]

Anyone wanna chime in with the Dalbello options?

[grinch]

Looks about right freedom sl, tlt6p, quadrant(I'd probably subtract 5 but it's been a bit, def easier fold than tlt6), spirits. Used this thread soooo much. Great that your updating leelau. Hopefully the dalbellos get added in. Lupo carbon ti looks great. New langes also. Seem to see more freedom rs' now than sl's (might make a 125 category?). Has me anxious to try my tnut together black/green tongues on my tlt6p's now(double greens were a nice boost). See how they work back to back with my sl's

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Looks like TLT5 Mountain is the wrong spot.

[harpo-the-skier]

I thought my green TLT6P with the stiffer black tongue feel about as stiff as my Mercuries without a tongue, but less progressive.

Edit: I have booster straps on both.

[LeeLau]

Looks like TLT5 Mountain is the wrong spot.

Fixed. I had the TLT6M and TLT5M in the wrong spots

I thought my green TLT6P with the stiffer black tongue feel about as stiff as my Mercuries without a tongue, but less progressive.

Edit: I have booster straps on both.

I gotta agree. Based on that I think the tongues add about 10 to the Mercuries (not 20). Btw because I goofed one day I skied a TLT6P with a tongue and without a tongue on pow (forgot to pack one side). It definitely throws you off but it blows me away just how skiable the TLT6P is without a tongue. Such a good boot. Stands to reason Dynafit would discontinue it.

BTW added Procline to the list.

[rod9301]

Any idea how the freetour 110 and 130 compare?

[LeeLau]

WANT Atomic boot flex testing machine https://www.wildsnow.com/22006/atomi...esting-machine

[LeeLau]

Added two general articles for help in deciding what boot to get

Overall general article http://www.leelau.net/Misc/2013/Vulc...verse/atboots/ from 2013

2016 article with same general advice is here https://www.wildsnow.com/11066/at-sk...-buying-guide/

[F#*k you cat]

LeeLau. Spreadsheet of AT boot flex comparison? Thanks CAT

Sent from my XT1053 using TGR Forums mobile app

[swissiphic]

Can anyone comment for the Garmont Deliriums, do they live up to the claimed 130 flex?

Old comment, but thought i'd take a stab at it since I ski the boot and have seen a few Deliriums kicking around over the past few seasons.

The boot is quite sensitive to forward lean setting in terms of perceived support in forward flex. With stock liner in upright forward lean setting I'd put the forward flex at 115. With stock liner and more aggressive forward lean setting 110. With Intuition luxury thick foam liner and upright forward lean setting 120. The forward stiffness may not measure up to the claimed 130+ but, imo, the quality of the flex is very very nice. Damp, smooth and progressive. Laterally, the boots are very solid and rear support is bomber as well. The boots are heavy but ski very well. I ski them in the second notch down from the most upright of the forward lean positions. IME, anything steeper than the middle and more forward of the lean positions are too steep for a modern skiing style. yrmv.

The Deliriums just have that synergy where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. All the design/materials factors combine to result in a very positive on snow happy factor when skiing...at least for my feet. I'll keep mine going until they break, then fix them and ski them till they completely fall apart.

[NorCalNomad]

Having owned both the Primes and the La Sportiva Spectres, there is no way I'd say they're the same flex. The Spectres are at least 100 if not 105. Primes at 90 seems correct though. Putting a beefier strap and intuitions in the Primes definitely helps.