Scarpa freedom

[verbier61]

First day on the scarpa freedom. I asked a pu/carbon (2000g) rather than the pebax/carbon because of the very good feeling I had at ispo with the pu.
In very few words: it walks almost like a maestrale, and it skis almost like my vibramized garmont G1 130. In the afternoon I switched to an intuition overlap liner, and then it skied exactly like my G1 (of course the G1 has different volumes, but the energy transfer was pretty similar).
One day is not a long story. Stay tuned for more.

[rob stokes]

Any comment on the fit compared to other boots we all know and love?

[verbier61]

Any comment on the fit compared to other boots we all know and love?

Pretty similar to maestrale and flexon/fulltilt. More ankle/heel volume compared to G1, definitely more tight when compared to old skookum, spirit etc. Also, similar to lupo and less volume than panterra.

[1000-oaks]

Nice looking boots, serious competition for the Cochise line.

[skimaxpower]

Maestrale fits my foot extremely well. But I'm less than thrilled about the reported durability issues (and too soft for my taste.)

I'm hoping this boot will be the ticket, but I hope they don't change the shape too much from the Maestrale.

[adrenalated]

Spent a full day skiing the Freedom SL yesterday and was pretty impressed.

Me: 5'9" 140lbs, average maggot abilities, ski fast, frequently take small to medium air.
Boot tested: Scarpa Freedom SL (pebax/carbon version), stock Intuition liner, 26.0/297mm
Normal boots: Dalbello Krypton Cross ID 25.5/296mm modded with stiffer B tongue, max stiffening inserts in rear, max forward lean, and a Booster strap and Scarpa Maestrale RS 26.0/297mm, stock.
Skis used: 190cm Rossi Squad7 w/ Guardian, 189cm Praxis RX w/ STH14
Conditions: Loveland on a weekend pow day - everything from untracked pow to heavy but soft cut-up crud to packed pow/hardpacked Chair 1 moguls

Although these boots are not mine, I was able to mold them to my foot and set them up the way that I wanted. As noted above, the fit is overall similar to the Maestrale RS, but has a little bit more room in the instep. More snug than the Krypton, particularly in the heel pocket. I did still need to add a butterfly wrap to hold my heel down on the left foot. I have extraordinarily narrow and low volume feet, particularly my left, and I have yet to find a boot that I don't need to add a wrap to. Although the trend is currently towards more upright boots, I have very flexible ankles and find that it's hard for me to flex a boot without bumping up the forward lean, so I really appreciated that the Freedom SL has a ton of adjustability in the forward lean. I set it all the way forward, and it was actually a bit too much.

On snow, I was very impressed by these boots. The lateral stiffness felt excellent, every bit equivalent to my Kryptons. Forward flex felt slightly stiffer than Maestrale RS, similar to the Krypton, but less rebound (probably due to overlap vs. tongue and the Booster strap on my Kryptons). If I owned the boot, I would definitely put a Booster strap on it. On snow it definitely flexes stiffer than it does in the house, but it is NOT a 130-flex race boot by any means. For me, this is fine since although I ski pretty powerfully, I'm pretty lightweight and have a hard time flexing really stiff boots.

I skied some lines that I thought tested the limits of the boots nicely, such as one that involved 2-3 exposed turns on windpack, a 10ft air into a short straightline on mild sastrugi into a mandatory super G turn on said sastrugi to avoid cliffs before finally getting into pow to dump speed. The boots were totally bomber pressuring the ski in this mandatory, high speed turn. Likewise, edge response was instantaneous on packed chair 1 bumps at speed, and making large, fast arcing turns through cut-up chop without the boot feeling like it was folding was no problem.

I didn't get a chance to tour on these yet, but in carpet testing, the Freedom SL has a bit less ROM than the Maestrale RS, but a bit more than a Factor MX or a Lange XT130, particularly in back flex. I think they will tour well.

If you really need a 130 flex race boot, this is probably not going to be your answer, but for many others including myself, I think this will be the answer for resort skiing up through moderate length tours. It will likely make my Kryptons obsolete, but I'll continue using the Maestrale RS w/ Dynafits for long tours. The Freedom SL will be a great match for a Guardian/Duke setup.

[wilcox510]

adrenalated - Whats the liner like, compared to the Maestrale RS liner?

[adrenalated]

Liner has a "flex zone" like the Maestrale RS, but it's a little different shape. Tongue style, not wrap. Tongue has a stiff plastic reinforcement on front. No laces. Might be slightly denser foam, but hard to tell. Since I managed to ragdoll and dislocate my shoulder yesterday at 3pm, and am therefore not skiing today, I'll try to take some comparison photos and post them up today.

[freak]

maestrales and maestrale RS have a tongue style liner as well...

freak~[&]

[CDubz]

Posting from my phone so it is going to be short but my brother and a friend skied this 3 days at Silverton mountain and back on red mountain pass. Lots of skiing, boot packing, and some touring. Touring was done on guardians and tech bindings. Needless to say both were very impressed with touring, hiking, and skiing abilities. We demoed a bunch of next year's boots and these were among if not the favorite.

Sent from my HTC One X using TGR Forums

[nexus6]

Pretty similar to maestrale and flexon/fulltilt. More ankle/heel volume compared to G1, definitely more tight when compared to old skookum, spirit etc. Also, similar to lupo and less volume than panterra.

Fit fail. I'm still waiting for someone to come out with an overlap beef AT boot with tech fittings and a race last similar to a Lange RS. Why have your uber performance AT boot fit like your regular bread and butter boot (ie. Maestrale). Anyone tried on the 97mm version of the new K2 boots?

[adrenalated]

maestrales and maestrale RS have a tongue style liner as well...

freak~[&]

Correct. Sorry, I was clarifying that the Freedom is also a tongue, not stating that the tongue was a difference vs. the Maestrale RS. Didn't state that well.

[adrenalated]

Fit fail. I'm still waiting for someone to come out with an overlap beef AT boot with tech fittings and a race last similar to a Lange RS. Why have your uber performance AT boot fit like your regular bread and butter boot (ie. Maestrale). Anyone tried on the 97mm version of the new K2 boots?

My best guess is this: many, if not most people, need to have a super narrow race shell punched in order to accommodate the metatarsal/sixth toe area. AT boots in general, and definitely boots like the Freedom, are made from much thinner plastic (which is a big reason why they are lighter) and therefore cannot be punched as much as a traditional alpine boot. Additionally, if the boot is actually compressing your foot into a narrower than natural shape, it is not going to be comfortable when touring, even though it might ski great.

Just curious, have you tried on a Maestrale/Maestrale RS? I have an honest to god A width foot (AA when properly supported with an aftermarket insole). It's been awhile since I measured, but I seem to remember my forefoot measures ~95mm at the widest point. I had absolutely zero lateral slop/movement in my forefoot in either the Freedom or the Maestrale RS. Although the last is wider right at the forefoot (thus the stated 101mm number), I find the shape of boots boots to be very anatomical and the midfoot, ankle, and heel fit much narrower than "101mm" might indicate, and certainly much more snugly than most "101mm" alpine boots. It fit narrower in the midfoot and forefoot than the "100mm" last that Lange is using in the XT/RX series, for sure. Of course, every boot fits everyone differently.

[LC]

I tried on the Freedom today. Nice low volume fit with my Intuitions (I currently ski Bodacious but a Falcon/X3 fits me best out of the box), but way too soft for me to use as an everyday boot.

I'll be back in my old X3s plus new Mercuries next year, cash permitting.

[verbier61]

I tried on the Freedom today. Nice low volume fit with my Intuitions (I currently ski Bodacious but a Falcon/X3 fits me best out of the box), but way too soft for me to use as an everyday boot.

I'll be back in my old X3s plus new Mercuries next year, cash permitting.

Did you try the pebax or the pu?

[LC]

Did you try the pebax or the pu?

Not sure exactly. But the first thing I asked the shop manager was "Is there a stiffer version?" "That is the stiffest one" was the answer.

[verbier61]

Not sure exactly. But the first thing I asked the shop manager was "Is there a stiffer version?" "That is the stiffest one" was the answer.

The stiffer pu has a white heel, the softer pebax has green dotted heel. Pu has no intuition liner, pebax has intuitions... I'm pretty sure pu and pebax have very different flex feelings

[rangerjake]

Fit fail. I'm still waiting for someone to come out with an overlap beef AT boot with tech fittings and a race last similar to a Lange RS. Why have your uber performance AT boot fit like your regular bread and butter boot (ie. Maestrale). Anyone tried on the 97mm version of the new K2 boots?

Tried them in the alpine version (spyne) since they didn't have a 25 shell in the Pinnacle. Their 97 is a for real 97. More so than any Lange or Tecnica boot. Salomon Questmax was the other closest true narrow fit I have been in, but the K2s take it. K2s have the tech fits on the alpine sole. Only one to do that.

[adrenalated]

The stiffer pu has a white heel, the softer pebax has green dotted heel.

Catalog lists PU as 110 flex and pebax as 120...

[nexus6]

Tried them in the alpine version (spyne) since they didn't have a 25 shell in the Pinnacle. Their 97 is a for real 97. More so than any Lange or Tecnica boot. Salomon Questmax was the other closest true narrow fit I have been in, but the K2s take it. K2s have the tech fits on the alpine sole. Only one to do that.

That's great news. Will be looking for those next season. Funny that it took the biggest of the McSki companies to come out with the boot I've been looking for for years. I guess they have the financial resources to make the boot molds in two widths, not so much for a company like Scarpa.

[adrenalated]

Freedom SL vs. Maestrale RS comparison. Freedom has alpine soles installed.

Shells locked in most forward lean position:


Front view. Note higher cuff on Freedom:


Back view. Again, note much higher cuff:


One of my favorite things about this boot is the way that the walk mode limits both forward and back flex. The Lange XT series only limits back flex, and most other boots use a pin-in-hole arrangement. This looks way more solid:



Shells in walk mode showing max back flex. After putting both boots on again and comparing them side by side with buckles set as I would normally tour in them, the two boots actually felt damn near the same.


Liners. The orange area on the RS liner is the softer "flex zone." The light green on the Freedom liner is a softer, thinner foam:


Liner front. Note plastic on tongue of Freedom:


Liner back:


On my scale, the Freedom SL is 5oz heavier per boot (10oz per pair) than the Maestrale RS. This is with aftermarket green Superfeet installed in both.

[snapt]

Currently in Radiums + powerwraps, will the SL be a step up in stiffness?

[LeeLau]

On my scale, the Freedom SL is 5oz heavier per boot (10oz per pair) than the Maestrale RS. This is with aftermarket green Superfeet installed in both.

Thank Ullr both have Intuition liners.

[nexus6]

Adrenalated

Yes I have tried on the Maestrale RS. It had to much room in the heel, ankle and instep. I ended up going with the TLT5 Performance.

For me the biggest fit issue is ankle and heel hold. Although my foot isn't super narrow in the forefoot it is low in volume in ankle and instep. The only way to avoid sliding forward (and black nails) or heel lift is to go with a narrow boot to get the narrow ankle and then punch the sixth toe and the fifth met base. My alpine boot is a 97mm Lange RS with several punches and its just barely low volume enough. My hope was to replace it with something with tech fittings and a walk mode.

More to the point is you can always make a small boot bigger but you can't make a big boot smaller. I've never had any issues punching AT boots even the super thin grilamid on the TLT5. Griding is out of the question but punching is fine. In addition we're talking about a boot thats more of a side country offering not something for all day touring so fit should be tighter.

The Freedom looks like a great boot, just wish it was lower volume than what I'm hearing. Anyway not trying to threadjack this into yet another boot fitting thread but the high volume fit of almost all AT boots is a big gripe of mine.

[verbier61]

Catalog lists PU as 110 flex and pebax as 120...

I felt the opposite (when using an intuition in pu) and was not the only one with this opinion. Anyway, I am sure you know the pu feeling and the pebax feeling. It's not a matter of flex rating, it's more a matter of elastic response