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  1. #1
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    Backcountry etiquette (Wasatch related)

    I've had two interesting encounters these last two weekends.
    For a number of reasons the central Wasatch has become increasingly crowded these last few seasons. It's great that more people are venturing past the gates in search of adventure. But with the increase in popularity, increase in responsibility also follows.
    Last weekend a heroic effort of numerous people saved the lives of a backcountry skier in west bowl of Silver Fork. You can read about it here and here . I was in east bowl at the time and didn't see the slide until well after the life flight helicopter had landed. This is a great example of how the popularity of the Wasatch actually saved this guys life. Because at the time there were at least 4 separate groups in West bowl and from my count at least 3+ groups in East bowl.

    Today I had an interesting encounter and I'm not totally sure what to make of it. I ventured out of Alta on a quick Solo side country tour. Had all my Avy gear, kept it mellow with a lap on Wolverine Bowl and exit Patsy Marley. As I was heading down Wolverine ridge a snowboarder stopped me and asked if I would spot him. His partner was out of sight and I'm assuming be wanted me to watch him and make sure he didn't get caught in a slide. I said sure and watched him ride the upper section until he was out of sight. I traversed a little further down the ridge and eventually saw that he had reconnected with his partner at the bottom. At the time I didn't think much of it, until later.
    This was a boarder who I did not know his name, experience or anything about him. He didn't know anything about me. It was a 45 degree chute that doglegged. How did he even know that I had the proper Avy training or skill to safely make it down a tight chute if it were to slide. Granted I would be confident skiing down after him and executing a rescue if I needed to, but he doesn't know that.

    So I bring up the discussion. As the Wasatch becomes more crowded, is it also going to become the collective's responsibility to watch out for one another? Personally, if I go out on a solo tour then I know that I am taking full responsibility for my actions. But has the backcountry changed so drastically that people now think they can rely on complete strangers to rescue them even when that individual decides to ride a line that he knows might slide? Has anyone ran into a complete stranger before and had them ask you to "spot them?"

  2. #2
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    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfmansbro View Post
    Has anyone ran into a complete stranger before and had them ask you to "spot them?"
    we've only asked that question when we've run into a "solo" backcountry skier carrying all their "gear."

  3. #3
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfmansbro View Post
    I've had two interesting encounters these last two weekends.
    For a number of reasons the central Wasatch has become increasingly crowded these last few seasons. It's great that more people are venturing past the gates in search of adventure. But with the increase in popularity, increase in responsibility also follows.
    Last weekend a heroic effort of numerous people saved the lives of a backcountry skier in west bowl of Silver Fork. You can read about it here and here . I was in east bowl at the time and didn't see the slide until well after the life flight helicopter had landed. This is a great example of how the popularity of the Wasatch actually saved this guys life. Because at the time there were at least 4 separate groups in West bowl and from my count at least 3+ groups in East bowl.

    Today I had an interesting encounter and I'm not totally sure what to make of it. I ventured out of Alta on a quick Solo side country tour. Had all my Avy gear, kept it mellow with a lap on Wolverine Bowl and exit Patsy Marley. As I was heading down Wolverine ridge a snowboarder stopped me and asked if I would spot him. His partner was out of sight and I'm assuming be wanted me to watch him and make sure he didn't get caught in a slide. I said sure and watched him ride the upper section until he was out of sight. I traversed a little further down the ridge and eventually saw that he had reconnected with his partner at the bottom. At the time I didn't think much of it, until later.
    This was a boarder who I did not know his name, experience or anything about him. He didn't know anything about me. It was a 45 degree chute that doglegged. How did he even know that I had the proper Avy training or skill to safely make it down a tight chute if it were to slide. Granted I would be confident skiing down after him and executing a rescue if I needed to, but he doesn't know that.

    So I bring up the discussion. As the Wasatch becomes more crowded, is it also going to become the collective's responsibility to watch out for one another? Personally, if I go out on a solo tour then I know that I am taking full responsibility for my actions. But has the backcountry changed so drastically that people now think they can rely on complete strangers to rescue them even when that individual decides to ride a line that he knows might slide? Has anyone ran into a complete stranger before and had them ask you to "spot them?"
    yes, i have. i think it's less an expectation and that people still realize they're responsible for themselves, but since someone's in the area the extra eyes at the top is not going to hurt. totally fine with that as long as it's not "hey bro i'm out here filming myself with my gopro and want to get rad so can you spot me on this line off the top of wolverine?".

  4. #4
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    Sounds like a perfectly reasonable request to me, his buddy didn't follow protocol and he looked for a safe plan B.

    He probably assumed you had the proper gear. The fact that he thought things through and was aware enough to look for another person to spot him probably means he had gear too. Sounds like the dude has his head on straight.

    And yes, as it gets busier, we can hope to rely on each other. But not an obligation on the other end by any means.
    Best Regards,

    UMKP

    "Peter, You've been missing a lot of work lately".
    "I wouldn't exactly say I've been missing it, Bob".

  5. #5
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    oh boy..........

    rog

  6. #6
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    when they are grimy and beat down i try and spot them, when the go pro is in triple play i just move along. that area is appearing to be more side less back.
    bF

  7. #7
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    I guess I was just caught a little off guard. Basically in less than 30 seconds of seeing him, he asked me to spot him. I said sure. He said "thanks because I can't see my partner." He straps on his go pro and drop something before I can even figure out what he is exactly riding. Before I can even determine whether or not it would be safe for me to ski it if it did slide.
    I've met up with other solo skiers in the backcountry before and had discussions about the snowpack and then asked them if they felt more comfortable riding together, but never just a 30 second exchange of words and than have someone trust me well enough to basically put their lives in my hands.
    I guess what I'm saying is if you ask someone to spot you then basically you are now in the backcountry together and should therefore have a discussion about what you think the conditions are like.
    Lets put it this way. I personally would not have been comfortable skiing that particular line today.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by icelanticskier View Post
    oh boy..........

    rog
    Stoke that woodstove Rog you are in for a long night!

    This one outta be good.
    The Passion is in the Risk

  9. #9
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    Mar 2012
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    I at least ascertain if they have a beacon. Because if they don't, you're probably not going to find them. So I state that. Then there's the hangfire thing. There are a lot of variables, but yes, I've "spotted" strangers before.

  10. #10
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    Welcome to Wasatchusetts.
    No kick turns
    No mercy

  11. #11
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    The Wasatch is something else again...

  12. #12
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    I guess if you can't avoid the situation and get reeled in like that, you are not obligated beyond giving the guy your eyes for a couple of minutes. If you had thought he was blowing it, I would hope you'd let him know. Besides the glide avalanches, it was pretty safe out there today. I would have just accepted it as symptomatic of places like Grizzly with such easy access.

    In the backcountry today, we skied a run with a guy that had fallen behind his group. It's just common courtesy to look out for one another by incorporating the soloist into the plan.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynchdogger View Post
    Stoke that woodstove Rog you are in for a long night!

    This one outta be good.
    funneh thing is, i just did! cleaned out a bunch of ash buildup and let her rip. my gal's and my wetsuits, gloves, booties hanging everywhere from todays bliss. ok, now where were we? ah yes, wasangelas, and the ways of it

    you want my .02?

    rog

  14. #14
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    ummmm, if he ended up seeing you get caught, how would you want this conversation to go?

    if you're solo in avie terrain with your beacon ON, that means you're hoping it will help you get rescued by a stranger.

    and when solo in avie terrain i wouldn't miss an opportunity to watch someone else drop in. even if you don't feel obliged to rescue the poor guy at least you'll know to avoid similar aspects.
    Last edited by powdork; 02-11-2013 at 01:12 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfmansbro View Post
    I guess I was just caught a little off guard. Basically in less than 30 seconds of seeing him, he asked me to spot him. I said sure. He said "thanks because I can't see my partner." He straps on his go pro and drop something before I can even figure out what he is exactly riding. Before I can even determine whether or not it would be safe for me to ski it if it did slide.
    I've met up with other solo skiers in the backcountry before and had discussions about the snowpack and then asked them if they felt more comfortable riding together, but never just a 30 second exchange of words and than have someone trust me well enough to basically put their lives in my hands.
    I guess what I'm saying is if you ask someone to spot you then basically you are now in the backcountry together and should therefore have a discussion about what you think the conditions are like.
    Lets put it this way. I personally would not have been comfortable skiing that particular line today.
    Why did you say "Sure?" You seem to be pinning responsibility on him for asking you to spot him, but I think it's pretty weird that you agreed so easily. You accepted much more risk/responsibility by agreeing to spot him than he did by asking you (assuming he was going to ski the face anyway to follow his partner).

    Of course, one could argue that as a bystander, you have the same implied responsibility to help in the event of a slide regardless of a verbal agreement. But I still wouldn't give someone my word like that having not fully assessed the situation and consequences of being "partners."
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  16. #16
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    make sure your ipod is turned all the way up ignore the guy and ski off in the other direction as fast as you can works great

    or just don't use silly ass access gates for the back country, gates and mountain passes with roads seem to attract all kinds of d bags

  17. #17
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    is this a skier v"s snowboarder thing ???

    I thought it common curtisy to spot people.
    either from above or below.
    or where ever you are skinning up even if you could never get there to assist.
    you could at least phone it in.
    It takes all of 30 seconds to a minute to see buddy riding out the bottom,
    and is a karma thing.

    imagine buddy is riding down a big bowl and the other party kept hiking the ridge and triggered a cornice and slide on the rider.
    We, the RATBAGGERS, formally axcept our duty is to trigger avalaches on all skiers ...

  18. #18
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    Oct 2007
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    Backcountry Etiquette clearly requires that any occurrence in the backcountry, whether it be good or bad, must be posted and discussed ad nauseam on an internet forum. In addition to this, video footage acquired through the use of a POV recording device is highly desired. Since you did not post GoPro footage of said occurrence, how can we be sure that it actually happened? Please, next time you enter the backcountry, bring your GoPro, it it now the fourth piece of gear required for backcountry travel.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Why did you say "Sure?" You seem to be pinning responsibility on him for asking you to spot him, but I think it's pretty weird that you agreed so easily. You accepted much more risk/responsibility by agreeing to spot him than he did by asking you (assuming he was going to ski the face anyway to follow his partner).

    Of course, one could argue that as a bystander, you have the same implied responsibility to help in the event of a slide regardless of a verbal agreement. But I still wouldn't give someone my word like that having not fully assessed the situation and consequences of being "partners."
    I said sure because at the time I could not see his line, I side stepped up to get a better view. By the time I got into a spot to watch him, he had already dropped. Looking back on it everything was fine in this particular instance, but I brought it up more for future decision making. I just got me thinking "what if." Something I always try to think about when in the backcountry.

    Obviously if I were to ever encounter an accident or victim caught in an avalanche I would do everything I could to help save that person. But what got me thinking is if someone specifically asks you to watch them, is their life all of a sudden your responsibility? When I tour with my friends I am fully confident in their abilities so I trust their decision making because we have discussed it.

    Lets say you specifically agree to watch someone and they do trigger a slide and for whatever reason they are caught in a slide and sustain injury or death. Would you feel somewhat responsible? I mean if one of my touring partners were caught in a slide I would feel responsible for what happened because its also my decisions making that lead to the avalanche.

  20. #20
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    i solo at night to avoid people
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfmansbro View Post

    But what got me thinking is if someone specifically asks you to watch them, is their life all of a sudden your responsibility?
    .
    no, and they should realize that. i've toured a bunch solo but never asked someone to spot me. usually it's cause i'm keeping it mellow. i guess if i were to ask, it'd be to slightly increase my chances of survival if something went bad. similar to an avalung or airbag i guess. if circumstances prevent someone from going after you in an accident (hangfire etc) then so be it. you should know that risk before asking.

  22. #22
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    Obvious troll?

    Bitches about Wasatch being crowded then links to Andrew's blog.

    Critical of another's avy etiquette having disturbed his solo touring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  23. #23
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    whats the proper etiquette on telling a mother she probably shouldn't be ignoring backcountry warning signs and skiing rocky point with her two daughters between ages 10-12 ?

  24. #24
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    They seem to be advanced skiers though. Just look at how smoothly they are handling those boards!

    Quote Originally Posted by smuggs View Post


    whats the proper etiquette on telling a mother she probably shouldn't be ignoring backcountry warning signs and skiing rocky point with her two daughters between ages 10-12 ?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by smuggs View Post


    whats the proper etiquette on telling a mother she probably shouldn't be ignoring backcountry warning signs and skiing rocky point with her two daughters between ages 10-12 ?
    congratulate her for getting the kids out there?
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