Sideseth, the underdog

[verbier61]

Ok this winter is automatic vs squad, blah blah blah. I've been involved in the automatic hype, so should stay just quiet, but...
After two full days on the sideseth, cannot understand why they are an underdog. Autos are more fun in trees and on soft cream, but the sideseth is the prefect tool for a place like verbier. The tail gives a lot on confidence on anything steep, they're stupidly easy to turn, crud and tracked are easily managed, I've skied some icy spots today and they were ok. If verb had more tree skiing (and maybe the next winter this will be the case with the new bruson lift), then automatic would win, but right now the sideseth looks more tailored.
One year ago I saw at ispo the strange camber profile of the sideseth and thought it was a joke. I was very mistaken. Whoever made that profile, chapeau.

PS it might still be that the cochise is a better one ski quiver for a place like verb or maybe cham, but I was focusing on 12-13 skis.

[dynodonkeyaltabird]

rocker porn of said strange camber profile please!

edit: found it on the website. only pic i could link to.

[verbier61]

Easy to tell: a few mm of positive camber up to a few cm in front of the toe, then a gentle but loooong front rocker. Minimal rocker in the tail. Pretty similar in the last darkside, which I never skied. Saw something similar in some other 12-13 (do not ask me what) skis... But in those it did not work. So it's a question of a few mm to have this shape working or failing.

[verbier61]

rocker porn of said strange camber profile please!

edit: found it on the website. only pic i could link to.

This pic is imho misleading in the tail..... There is much less rocker

[ulty_guy]

Did you go 188? I picked up the Rens on an impulse but am still hiding in the bushes waiting to attack a deal on these!

[thehaze]

Is the mounting point on top of the camber? i'm asking because it seems quite far back..

[verbier61]

Did you go 188? I picked up the Rens on an impulse but am still hiding in the bushes waiting to attack a deal on these!

Yes 188.... As you correctly wrote in an early review, they do not ski short but are very easy to handle. This might be the reason why they inspire so much confidence in steep terrain. Rens are a joy in soft snow, but I was never tempted to use them in a day like today were the menu was chalk, crud, chopped, ice.... A menu that the sideseth handled very well

[verbier61]

Is the mounting point on top of the camber? i'm asking because it seems quite far back..

Pretty amazing, but the binding toe is very close to where the positive camber ends. I have no more the skis with me so cannot make a pic, but - again - the first time I saw it I was 0-o

[sf]

Yes 188.... As you correctly wrote in an early review, they do not ski short but are very easy to handle. This might be the reason why they inspire so much confidence in steep terrain. Rens are a joy in soft snow, but I was never tempted to use them in a day like today were the menu was chalk, crud, chopped, ice.... A menu that the sideseth handled very well

Have you skied the Squads in comparison? To me they seem pretty similar, but having skied neither, who am I to say?
Anyhow, the Sideseth won the freeride-category in this years FriFlyt-test. Winning over automatic, squad and rocker 115s among others.

[verbier61]

Sadly, had not skied the squad. Also the camber profile of the squad was sort of shock ai ispo, but for different reason: squad on display there had a lot - really a lot - of positive camber. In the pics from the blister gear squad review, though, the positive camber was much less, so I thought the skis on display at ispo were sort of misleading.
Btw, also the cham series on display at ispo had a lot of positive camber, exactly likethe cham i've skied this winter, which I did not like at all.

[hop]

Mount point for the SideSeth and Annex 118 (13/14) is pretty far back compared to things like the Pettitor, but when was the last time you saw Seth landing/skiing backwards or doing anything but maching down something gnarly facing forwards?

I really didn't like the DarkSide with the super long rocker and I was nervous about the SideSeth, but for some reason the SS is much smoother and catch-free in the tails. I guess it's that tail rocker at work vs. the full camber of the DS. The Annex 108 (SideStash replacement) has a similar rocker profile, maybe not quite so long in the tip.

Hopefully I'll have my Annex 118s mounted up w/ NTN Freedom tomorrow.

[Stikki]

The Annex 108 (SideStash replacement) has a similar rocker profile, maybe not quite so long in the tip.

So the Sidestash is getting a slightly rockered tail? What about the Hardside? And the Sideshow is moving from the adventure series back to the Apache/AMP/Rox all-mountain series?

[verbier61]

Hop, I've seen christine hargin sometimes on the sideseth (verb xtreme) and sometimes with the pettitor (yesterday at cham fwt).... What are they best suited for?

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Have you skied the Squads in comparison? To me they seem pretty similar, but having skied neither, who am I to say?
Anyhow, the Sideseth won the freeride-category in this years FriFlyt-test. Winning over automatic, squad and rocker 115s among others.

I have a set of Squads that I can't sell so will be mounting them and skiing them...provided we get some new snow in quantity as I'm not a 120mm daily driver type of guy.

I own(ed) Bibby Pro 190s and have spent a few runs on both 186 Automatics and 181 Sideseths (not sure how long they actually measure but my 181 Hardsides are 183 straightpull so assuming these are also similar length) in some of the best conditions of the year in Whistler.

Not unlike the Bibbys, I know I have big skis on my feet when on the SS's. You also have to be conscious of them when on groomers. You carve the SS's almost from the heel, if you will, where as the Bibby's are more neutral. Plus, I'm really used to the Bibby's since I've spent a great deal of time on them this season, but railing them was easy from first setting foot on them. The SS's...not so much. I relate that to not not being used to that amount of tip off the snow and the camber seemingly very rearward from the mount point. The tip chatters on pack, but I really could care less about this.

Anyway, these types of skis are not for railing groomers but that is a huge bonus that comes with the Bibby.

In cut up chop, at speed, I felt these were similar to Bibby's. They have power. In low angle cruising kinda cut up the Automatics just go up and over everything where as the Bibby's and the SS's are kinda 'punchy' where you cannot just unconsciously let them run straight with a neutral stance: you need a bit or rearward bias. When the speed gets up then the Automatics just don't have the power the SS's or the Bibbys do. Plus, when skiing variable, bumped up terrain on the Autos where you are working the skis and powering I found myself always adjusting to the tips deflecting/absorbing too much and wishing for more tail. The SS's and Bibbys seemed similar enough, but I think the big twin on the Bibby would allow for more balanced swing weight thus less taxing if having to work that ski over the course of a day. Conjecture as I'd have to spend days on the SS...

I did not ski any ski but my own in untouched that day as I find all skis do very well in untouched. However, based on the longish tip and longer tip splay of the SS's I would think these would make a better powder ski than the Bibby for wide open stuff only because you could vary your weight distribution more. Front seat; back seat...wouldn't be as consequential as on the Bibby which even in PNW deep snow likes a neutral pilot.

Now I have to say, I cannot stand the looks of rockers like on the SS. You have a tip, then what appears to be a long flat section, then the contact point. You press a Bibby, an Auto, a Squad, an R2 115 base to base you don't get a goofy looking splay like that. You get a long early rise that rolls naturally and roundly (if you will) out of the camber to the tip. Whatever, if it works that's all that matters, I'm just lost on the benefit of it. I suppose it can only aid in deep snow performance at the cost of hard snow performance...and for a 118mm wide ski that makes sense.

Anyway, I'll post up some stuff if/when I get the Squads out. I'll be amazed if they truly are the powerhouse so many are calling them, especially after coming off the Bibby. The tip and tail are relatively (very) soft on the Squads however they do stiffen up quickly and substantially before the camber.

Lastly sf, the Squads and SS's look nothing close to me in design. Tip and waist DIMS are about the only similarity. Squad is a pintail and SS is not. Squad has more tail rocker and less splay/tip rocker.

[hop]

So the Sidestash is getting a slightly rockered tail? What about the Hardside? And the Sideshow is moving from the adventure series back to the Apache/AMP/Rox all-mountain series?

Annex 98 and 108 both have lightly rockered tails a la Annex 118, which is the new SideSeth (same ski as far as I can tell). It looks like the 98 and 108 tip rockers are the same as HardSide and SideStash but no guarantees.

Not sure what the Sideshow is going to since it's not in the new catalog by the old name and I never paid any attention to it anyways.

The Shreditor series looks pretty cool. The Shreditor/Pettitor 120 has less camber underfoot than current and the 112 looks to have just enough tip/tail rocker to be fun but not too much to be wheelie. On paper the 112 rocker profile reminds me of the Lib Tech NAS rocker profile looks like in person.

Hop, I've seen christine hargin sometimes on the sideseth (verb xtreme) and sometimes with the pettitor (yesterday at cham fwt).... What are they best suited for?

Pettitor - I've only skied them five days but they're not really my cup of tea for some reason, even though I really liked the HellBent, so go figure. Definitely looser than the SideSeth and more of a surfy/jibby feel.

I was kind of surprised to see Hargin skiing those.

[verbier61]

Uh... So no more "seth" in the 13-14 k2 line? That would be the end of an loooog season

It might be hargin skied a proto with pettitor topsheet... Last xtreme I saw many sponsored athletes using skis with fake topsheets

[hop]

Uh... So no more "seth" in the 13-14 k2 line? That would be the end of an loooog season

It might be hargin skied a proto with pettitor topsheet... Last xtreme I saw many sponsored athletes using skis with fake topsheets

The Annex 118 is the Seth Morrison pro model. Still has his name on the ski, don't worry! Just like the Shreditor 120 is aka the Pettitor.

The ski Hargin had on the podium looks like a stock Pettitor to me, at least as far as shape/rocker/sidecut/twintip go.

[ulty_guy]

Managed to score some on end of season 50% discount, woot! We even have loads of powder left to have a go on before the end of the season

[Scottish_Skier]

Over the last 5 years K2 have really developed the concept of "versatile" rocker that still works on hard snow. (i.e rocker not just for powder). They deserve more credit for this.

Personally I reckon 100-110mm is more suited to a European daily driver...
So 'Annex108' is perhaps more of interest that the 'Side-Seth / Annex118' ?
The graphics even look reasonable...

[.lloydchristmas]

rocker porn of said strange camber profile please!

edit: found it on the website. only pic i could link to.

K2s rocker pictures and claimed have been false several times. They say that the hellbent is 50/50 rocker and camber and that's just not close to being true. This is just another example of their bogus advertising.

[hop]

Over the last 5 years K2 have really developed the concept of "versatile" rocker that still works on hard snow. (i.e rocker not just for powder). They deserve more credit for this.

Personally I reckon 100-110mm is more suited to a European daily driver...
So 'Annex108' is perhaps more of interest that the 'Side-Seth / Annex118' ?
The graphics even look reasonable...

If you like the SideStash but wouldn't mind the tail being a little bit looser, the Annex 108 is your ski.

[verbier61]

I decided today the sideseth is my favorite 12-13 ski. Automatic and katana go on the podium, but the SS is more versatile, and has a magic tail.
Wasn't able to ski the squad or the GPO, but hey I dig the SS a lot.

[Greydon Clark]

I've been very happy with my Sidesth's in PNW pow and mush.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using TGR Forums

[Scottish_Skier]

^ K2 have been making great skis over the last 5 years... So I am not so surprised that the SideSeth is a real "home run". (Verb61 is one of the biggest gear geeks in town!)

They have done lots of things right to make a proper come back.

- good range of skis for park / freeride powder & touring.
- proper line up of skis in various widths i.e 90/100/110mm (ish)
- versatile tip rocker that works well on hard snow as well as in powder.
- flat tails on the back-country series. (about 5 years ago most fatter skis had a twin tip, which can be really annoying if you don't ski switch).
- skin attachment points with pre-cut skins

This is all pretty simple stuff that many of the other manufacturers missed out on. Of course the cool kids like to knock K2 on the forums as being nasty corporate giant with skis made in China. *Maybe* the durability isn't quite so good as Volkl / Dynastar / Movement. However those skis retail at £500 instead of £300 for the K2. For off piste there is a lot to be said for a slightly cheaper ski that you don't mind tonking over a few rocks? Personally I have not had any problem with the K2 durability (and I ski over a lot of rocks!)

FWIW - I like the stiff tails on the old Sidestash in wide turns, but there are couple of times when its has caught me out skiing in moguls or tight trees etc. Will be interesting to try the Annex108...

[ulty_guy]

Just a bump and an update...

Have been skiing my 188s on the boilerplate and 'frozen granular' (NE USA snow conditions term for that crappy stuff that gets pushed to the side of the piste) for the past couple of weekends and have to say that I'm hugely impressed.

I had first tried these out in great pow conditions at the beginning of last season in Zermatt and promised myself a pair. End of season, I scored a 50% off deal and finally have them mounted up (p15s at 0).

I can't believe how well these skis even on some of the worst snow possible. That tail is magic, just enough lift to make it really playful. Sure, a bit slow edge to edge, but still really stable at speed.

Can't wait for us to finally get some pow now!