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  1. #51
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by djrez4 View Post
    Then we get the Chicken Littles and the dick swingers.
    It's TGR. We always have those. As I fucking said earlier - we don't know the failure rate (other than it's at least 1) and we don't know the volume sold/used (I'm going to guess it's not "hundreds of thousands" but that's a guess and I'd love to be proved wrong with actual numbers). There's never been actual numbers posted for failure rates on any bindings in the history of TGR that I can remember, it's just hearsay and supposition. To proclaim this case just "shit just breaks" is fucking water carrying. Fullstop.

    AlpenChronicHabitual - you are anonymous to most people here. I've possibly met more "maggots" than you have, so fuck off. You don't like me, I don't like you, that won't change.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arty50 View Post

    But hey, ohnoes!!! One person on the internet broke their binding (and will get it warrantied) and suddenly the whole batch is suspect.
    All it takes is one failure( there were 3 others as well in my situation and the whole batch was suspect), until it happens to you then this ^^^^ is fucking drivel. Full hip replacement and knee to come soon for me, how I go about my day is indelibly changed from putting my socks on to picking my son up off the ground. Guess I am the 1% of the time. Failures are intolerable. Not saying this is bad R&D, I just think your distilling of it is putrid and smells like shit.

  3. #53
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    I defiantley would agree its a good idea to start collecting data and so this is the 1st point here on TGR

    As oposed to that Solly lowtech toe fitting which looked like the kid in the mailroom designed it Solly did get real skiers to test the binding altho it doesn't matter what you test for somebody will figure out how to break a product in a new and wonderful way

    Ohter than hucking big great skiers may be too good to fuckup a binding so maybe they should be giving some prototypes to hacks and newbies to simulate real life

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    It's TGR. We always have those.
    Call me Captain Obvious?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    It's TGR. We always have those. As I fucking said earlier - we don't know the failure rate (other than it's at least 1) and we don't know the volume sold/used (I'm going to guess it's not "hundreds of thousands" but that's a guess and I'd love to be proved wrong with actual numbers). There's never been actual numbers posted for failure rates on any bindings in the history of TGR that I can remember, it's just hearsay and supposition. To proclaim this case just "shit just breaks" is fucking water carrying. Fullstop.

    AlpenChronicHabitual - you are anonymous to most people here. I've possibly met more "maggots" than you have, so fuck off. You don't like me, I don't like you, that won't change.
    Jesus, the hypocrisy is thick. You're the one who called into question their product testing methodology and said that this year's batch of bindings essentially amounts to a public beta; all without knowing jack schit about how long they tested these, how many people tested these, what methodology they used to test these, etc. I essentially played devil's advocate to say that, hey maybe they actually did a really nice job testing these and a few failures reported on the intertubes doesn't mean it's a bad product. My point is that neither I nor you know shit at this point other than a handful have failed and a bunch of other people are skiing them without issue. Anything we might say other than that is just pure conjecture at this point. But hey, keep spouting. You'll make sense one day.

    Thin Cover, I'm sorry about your hip and knee. Hopefully, Sally learned from that. If not, fuck them. If so, well good. I have absolutely no allegiance to them, and I'm not trying to defend them per se. Rather, what I'm trying to do is have a rational discussion on the internet. I guess I should know better than that at this point, especially here.

    Quote Originally Posted by djrez4 View Post
    Eh - Isolated or not, it's good to report a failure.

    Then we get the Chicken Littles and the dick swingers. That's not so good.
    Agreed on both points.
    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arty50 View Post

    Thin Cover, I'm sorry about your hip and knee. Hopefully, Sally learned from that. If not, fuck them. If so, well good. I have absolutely no allegiance to them, and I'm not trying to defend them per se. Rather, what I'm trying to do is have a rational discussion on the internet. I guess I should know better than that at this point, especially here.



    I know what you are saying, not trying to furiously add to the buhkake cracker here. I just know what "one" failure can result in, I dont want anybody facing the shit that I am right now. So I hate seeing it downplayed like some failures are ok, it will happen of course and is to be expected, but its not ok.

  7. #57
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    Wait.. are you saying the first generation of a new product is having some durability issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    1st year product buyer = product tester

    Warranty should cover that no questions asked. Hopefully he didn't buy from that spanish website.
    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    You'd think, hope, that just maybe, all their pro skier gear testers might have identified this problem when testing the binding over 100's of miles of backcountry ski touring in a range of conditions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arty50 View Post
    Jesus, the hypocrisy is thick. You're the one who called into question their product testing methodology and said that this year's batch of bindings essentially amounts to a public beta; all without knowing jack schit about how long they tested these, how many people tested these, what methodology they used to test these, etc. I essentially played devil's advocate to say that, hey maybe they actually did a really nice job testing these and a few failures reported on the intertubes doesn't mean it's a bad product. My point is that neither I nor you know shit at this point other than a handful have failed and a bunch of other people are skiing them without issue. Anything we might say other than that is just pure conjecture at this point. But hey, keep spouting. You'll make sense one day.
    Go suck some more pro-dick Arty, it's hardly fucking me, I'm just the one you and the little care-bear cretins focus. If they'd miraculously changed the testing model there'd have been way more "spy shots" out there. It's not fucking news that normal people don't ski like pros or use the gear like pros and most people don't ever want to use the gear like pros. You didn't play "devils advocate" you played water carrier and now you are back tracking. So blow it out your ass.


    If you want to improve quality SHIT JUST DOESNT HAPPEN. You find the cause, you fix it. Yes, that costs money and time. Maybe it's not worth it, that's an economics issue. But bottom line, shit just doesn't "happen".

    Seriously, what is it with that attitude and skiing? Resort lies about snowfall "oh, that's ok". Burger's cold and crappy "oh, that's ok". Binding breaks "just warranty it". Shit's expensive, the same people don't tolerate that off the slopes, why on the slopes?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Seriously, what is it with that attitude and skiing? Resort lies about snowfall "oh, that's ok". Burger's cold and crappy "oh, that's ok". Binding breaks "just warranty it". Shit's expensive, the same people don't tolerate that off the slopes, why on the slopes?
    You're right and I've let it go on long enough. I need more focus and intensity out of you, otherwise I'm seeing a demotion from lead fluffer to more of a back up role in your near future.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  9. #59
    Hugh Conway Guest
    sorrry basss, I'll get on that.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by thin cover View Post
    Failures are intolerable.
    But they happen, and will continue to. There is no magic carpet ride, nor a free lunch, and you don't get everything, even if you try and pay for it. Every product is a compromise, between a large metric of parameters, including: weight, strength, performance, and cost. You can not make a binding lighter, stronger, and less expensive, at the same time. Ya, they could have done something to fix this, it is easy to sit here and day the binding should have been stronger. Unfortunatly you have to also feel with the increase in weight and cost.
    Also there is a little man named Murphy, and he is an ingenious little fucker who is way more creative than you or I.
    Shit happens that is unexpected, and it causes failures. Everything from a pencil to a space ship.

    The idea that product failures are totally uvoidable is about as ludicrous as expecting a season where you ski 100 consecutive days of blue bird powder with perfect stability. Honestly, I think your experience clouds your vision on this subject, and makes it hard for you to view anything like this without emotion.

    Life happens, and things break, especially when they have not been tested for several years (like 20...) by thousands of people.

    I wonder why people allways rush out to buy the hot new piece of equipment. I wonder how many retards will buy, or just ski, that new dynafit contraption next year?
    How many bindings have been released in the last 5 years without significant, and repeating problems in the first year? Dukes? Nope, Plum? Nope, Radical? Nope, F12? Nope.

    You will need to have some tolerance for things breaking, especially in the first release, otherwise you will be sorely disappointed.

  11. #61
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    OP Thanks for reporting the failure. Shit breaks, failures happen. Could have shut this wank ass thread down on page 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    I'm an uptight cunt who probably shouldn't own a ski gear, bike gear, or even a car because I can't tolerate breakdowns!! >insert bitchy cryface<

  12. #62
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    Dear Hugh,

    "I knew in an instant that the three dollars I had spent on wine would not go to waste."

  13. #63
    Hugh Conway Guest
    TGR groups together in the latest Neon outerwear


    look, the tard in yellow even has a GoPro!

  14. #64
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    Any updates from the OP? Also, Salomon did have some shop guys I know testing these late last year (2011/12), so it wasn't just their pro athletes on them.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Ya, they could have done something to fix this, it is easy to sit here and day the binding should have been stronger. Unfortunatly you have to also feel with the increase in weight and cost..
    did you ever see a pict of the part that failed and caused TC his grief ?

    it was a fucking pitiful piece of "engineering" you didn't need to be a rocket scientists to look at it and say wow its missing material here and here and here, IMO gross incompetance in product development ... the toe fitting of the boot was an afterthot

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    ...Solly did get real skiers to test the binding...

    Ohter than hucking big great skiers may be too good to fuckup a binding so maybe they should be giving some prototypes to hacks and newbies to simulate real life
    How much did their hucking pros TOUR on the binding? Miles, approach roads, all season long, varying snow quality, start the day in wet mank then end higher in cold with a binding full of ice, skiing mashed potato warm fresh snow all day. That kind of stuff.

    I am sure they tested extensively the skiing performance of the binding. But how much did they test the touring performance? On the failed boot they tested the ski performance (and had pros raving about it) but obviously did not test the touring performance, or touring functionality in ski mode (tech inserts, most pros don't huck in them)

    It would be nice to give Solly the benefit of the doubt in their testing. However after their tech insert disaster, they do not deserve it.
    Life is not lift served.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    did you ever see a pict of the part that failed and caused TC his grief ?

    it was a fucking pitiful piece of "engineering" you didn't need to be a rocket scientists to look at it and say wow its missing material here and here and here, IMO gross incompetance in product development ... the toe fitting of the boot was an afterthot
    My situation was was completely different, there simply wasnt any testing or thought, it was a "mistake". Anyway I dont expect everyone to be educated on what happened and dont think he was trying to vindicate the parties involved, at least I hope not.


    And neckbeard is nailing it. I dont huck anymore and ski pretty slow and conservatively due to what happened. But I tour a shit ton in all kinds of terrain, conditions and length, and thus I put a ton of personal R&D into what I ski. I have been through 3 pairs of maestrales RS's this year since my use has revealed each and every issue they have had so far with the boot which have been many. Finally today they are suggesting that they refund me the money and think these boots just arent for me. Great boot, best I have toured in, so pretty bummed about it. To their credit they did everything possible to make it work.
    Last edited by thin cover; 01-30-2013 at 08:51 PM.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    I am sure they tested extensively the skiing performance of the binding. But how much did they test the touring performance?
    In the Guardian thread it was made pretty clear by Cody and others that they tested this thing extensively, both uphill and downhill. As much as you'd hope to avoid it, random shit happens to any product no matter how much testing you may do.

    For the sake of documentation, I think it would be good if the OP can post up some basic details like the skier's boot (AT or DIN?), BSL, weight, approximate temperature at which the failure occurred, etc. Those are all details I'm sure Solly's engineers would appreciate.

  19. #69
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    No idea how much touring was done on the binding but also consider a really good/fit pro skier is less likely to knee out on a ski top and snap a toe pivot than an out of shape 260lb newbie with poor technique so whatever you test a product for ... sombody will find a weak spot

    Quote Originally Posted by thin cover View Post
    I have been through 3 pairs of maestrales RS's this year since my use has revealed each and every issue they have had so far with the boot which have been many. Finally today they are suggesting that they refund me the money and think these boots just arent for me. Great boot, best I have toured in, so pretty bummed about it. To their credit they did everything possible to make it work.
    You a big guy ?Scarpa should keep giving you boots to test

  20. #70
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    Called it.

    01-06-2012, 01:42 PM #328

    coreshot-tourettes


    Toe pivot chintzy.
    Rear lockdown looks like it would have ice buildup problems.
    Knee fall likely to result in breakage.

    Pass.

  21. #71
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    no you didn't. that has nothing to do with a toe pivot issue or likely anything else you mentioned. snow/ice buildup underneath the touring plate caused a lever effect in all likelihood. minor issue with what's been a flawless binding otherwise so far.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    You a big guy ?Scarpa should keep giving you boots to test
    yes, it's well established TC is a big, strong dude.

  23. #73
    Finstah Guest
    My guess is that it was crazy cold outside. I've seen tons and tons of weird breaking of plastic and metal binding and boot components when the temps get down really low...

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskieratsnowbird View Post
    minor issue
    Dude, the fucking thing snapped clean in half! I'm aching here.

    'Tis but a flesh wound.
    Life is not lift served.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolaib211v View Post
    The heel piece is at home...
    Attachment 131310
    I think atomic is just trying to solve the undesirable touring characteristic of the base plate. Its probably just a prototype. I'm sure they will get it sorted out.

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