Shiffrin

**Supermoon** · 01-12-2023, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I think your post is remarkably US sports league myopic.

I think the very best at most sports could have been great at other sports. If Mikaela had been a soccer player from day 1, I have a hard time believing she wouldn't have been awesome at it. And I have little doubt that Tiger could have crushed it at other sports. The NBA, maybe not because he's not tall enough, but he would have been a hell of a baseball player, I bet. So I think the idea that Aaron Donald would be better at golf than Tiger would be at some other sport is not only unprovable, but a silly assertion.

And yeah, true freaks of nature.
Attachment 442370

Fair to a point. I don’t know enough about international soccer to have much of an opinion, and I’m sure lots of Aussie rules player and rugby players are freaks as well.

That being said, if you see the size of like an NFL linebacker who can run a 4.4, shed a block from a 350 lb O lineman and then tackle 225 lb running backs all day, and have the recognition and reaction speed to even be in the right place to do it, there is nobody (other than maybe top rugby players) who can do that.

Sure Tiger would probably be a decent hitter in baseball cause it’s all hand-eye. Bloom is a great example, cause he was a world-class skier, went to play football, and was ok, but not a top talent.

My roommate in college was the star tennis player on the team, but he only played tennis cause he got cut from the basketball team.

These are fun arguments to have cause there’s no actual way to know, but I think on a whole, the ATHLETIC talent level of major pro sports is an entire different level than the other pro sports.

**detrusor** · 01-12-2023, 01:56 PM

My favorite was the show where shaq competed against other athletes. Phelps and Rothlesberger come to mind. And he’s hilarious.

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**Danno** · 01-12-2023, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Supermoon

That being said, if you see the size of like an NFL linebacker who can run a 4.4, shed a block from a 350 lb O lineman and then tackle 225 lb running backs all day, and have the recognition and reaction speed to even be in the right place to do it, there is nobody (other than maybe top rugby players) who can do that.

So, only players who have trained extensively -- likely their entire life -- for a specific sport can excel at the things that specific sport demands?

Even if I take your premise as true, the reverse would also be true, that none of these guys could pick up a golf club and ever approach the dominance that Tiger had. Maybe some of the very best could have if they trained as golfers from a young age. Just like Tiger might have been a star athlete at something else if he had trained at it. Jordan's foray into baseball is instructive here. Without question Jordan is one of the greatest athletes of all time, yet he couldn't get past Double A ball, because unlike other baseball players, he hadn't been playing nonstop, and his pure athletic ability wasn't enough. And Jordan has been playing golf forever (he's famous for it) and he's still no Tiger. So the notion that because he could do amazing things on a basketball court that Tiger couldn't somehow inherently displays that he's the better "athlete" is false.

As an ultimate player, we used to joke about what NBA players would be like on the field, and how long it would take for a team of NBA players to be able to beat the top ultimate teams. They would certainly do so eventually, but it wouldn't be immediate. Each sport takes way more than pure athletic ability.

**alias_rice** · 01-12-2023, 02:26 PM

I think somebody already mentioned Bo Jackson. I am not sure why we need to discuss it any further. He was hands-down the greatest athlete ever.

**The AD** · 01-12-2023, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I think the very best at most sports could have been great at other sports.

In some cases, but I think there are also cases where someone is simply designed for a given sport: like Michael Phelps for swimming. I'm sure he could have done well in some other sports, but he sure as hell wouldn't have been the GOAT, and probably not even have been truly elite.

You've got to figure some of this is pure luck, too. What if Earl Williams hadn't put a golf club in Tiger's hand?

**Hood26** · 01-12-2023, 02:38 PM

From a recent interview with Schild:

“But you see today, it’s not a given to win every race. It’s always hard work,” Raich said. “Mikaela doesn’t think about records and stuff, because it would not make you so strong with those things in your head. She is focused: what she wants to do is just to do good turns, these turns that feel good.”

It’s a good and quick read.

https://news.yahoo.com/100-more-shif...105913103.html

**Danno** · 01-12-2023, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

In some cases, but I think there are also cases where someone is simply designed for a given sport: like Michael Phelps for swimming. I'm sure he could have done well in some other sports, but he sure as hell wouldn't have been the GOAT, and probably not even have been truly elite.

You've got to figure some of this is pure luck, too. What if Earl Williams hadn't put a golf club in Tiger's hand?

Well, sure. Simone Biles would not be a top soccer player, no matter how incredible she is as an athlete, because body type matters. I acknowledged this re Tiger and the NBA.

Phelps could perhaps be the greatest rock climber ever? Or some other sport where his body type works.

**waxman** · 01-12-2023, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

It was mentioned upthread, but you're the second person to mention Moseley winning, and he didn't win "superstars" which is the one I remember, so there must have been others too. But yeah, Herman Maier and Jeremy Bloom won superstars and certainly other winners were not all NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL players.

I didn't say he won, I just remember the typical sportscasters fawning over the pro game players and then Mosely doing quite well against them.

**gaijin** · 01-12-2023, 02:50 PM

Shiffrin.

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**::: :::** · 01-12-2023, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by alias_rice

I think somebody already mentioned Bo Jackson. I am not sure why we need to discuss it any further. He was hands-down the greatest athlete ever.

jim thorpe would like a word

football, baseball, pentathlon, decathlon, boxing, lacrosse, basketball, swimming, hockey

shiffrin is a unique talent for both her ability to ski better than almost anyone prior and her ability to concentrate/grind/practice, as well as seemingly still being a nice human being, not a diva

**The AD** · 01-12-2023, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by ::: :::

jim thorpe would like a word

football, baseball, pentathlon, decathlon, boxing, lacrosse, basketball, swimming, hockey

I'm not suggesting she is in any way the greatest athlete ever, but another one who is worth noting is Sheila Taormina. She's made the Olympics for the U.S. in swimming, triathlon, and modern pentathlon. That's pretty impressive.

**tellybele** · 01-12-2023, 03:43 PM

Honnold?

**waxman** · 01-12-2023, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

I'm not suggesting she is in any way the greatest athlete ever, but another one who is worth noting is Sheila Taormina. She's made the Olympics for the U.S. in swimming, triathlon, and modern pentathlon. That's pretty impressive.

Well if she made it for Modern Pentathlon then she really is a great all round athlete.

**The AD** · 01-12-2023, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by waxman

Well if she made it for Modern Pentathlon then she really is a great all round athlete.

Oh, no question about that.

**billyk** · 01-12-2023, 05:26 PM

I don’t really like this detour, but since we are still at it, might as well mention Babe Didrikson Zaharious. Excelled at a wide assortment of sports before taking up golf and dominating there, too. She was the inspiration of the movie “Pat and Mike” starring Spencer Tracy.

**powdork** · 01-12-2023, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by alias_rice

I think somebody already mentioned Bo Jackson. I am not sure why we need to discuss it any further. He was hands-down the greatest athlete ever.

If your career isn't half of your contemporaries you don't even warrant consideration. Sorry he got injured (not sorry)

**MCskid** · 01-13-2023, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

I've never heard someone who was decent at golf call it that. 1991 called and wants its narrative back. The overwhelming majority of pro athletes all agree golf is hard as shit.

Golf is a game rich republicans play so they can avoid spending time with their families.

**TahoeJ** · 01-13-2023, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by MCskid

Golf is a game rich republicans play so they can avoid spending time with their families.

Did you time travel here from the 1980's or something? I belong to a private golf club - where you'd really expect a bunch of republicans - and the members are predominantly liberal. Granted it's California, but it's also the most populous state. Of the players on tour under 40, more of them skew left (or center) these days than right.

Also - this is a funny comment in a ski forum considering how privileged and expensive skiing has become over the past 15 years. Even more so, because it costs so much money to get into ski racing, especially at higher levels, you could argue the cost of entry for WC racing is about as exclusive and privileged as it gets - in the US in particular vs. Europe. If Mikaela grew up poor there's almost no chance she'd be at the level she is now - this isn't a knock on her at all, just basic economic reality.

**altasnob** · 01-13-2023, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by MCskid

Golf is a game rich republicans play so they can avoid spending time with their families.

Ski racing is a sport rich doctors, dentist, and lawyers have their kids participate in so that they can live vicariously through them.

Shiffrin is a dominant force but I question the elite athleticism of any ski racer when they only have to compete against a very small subset of doctor, dentist, and lawyer spawn.

**Danno** · 01-13-2023, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by altasnob

Ski racing is a sport rich doctors, dentist, and lawyers have their kids participate in so that they can live vicariously through them.

Shiffrin is a dominant force but I question the elite athleticism of any ski racer when they only have to compete against a very small subset of doctor, dentist, and lawyer spawn.

This is so dumb. Like really really dumb. As has been pointed out, in multi-sport competitions in the past, the skiers were very successful competing against football and basketball and track and other athletes. Plus it's utterly United States myopic. Skiing is huge throughout Europe and Canada, and while I do agree with TahoeJ that if Mikaela grew up poor she likely wouldn't be where she is right now, the idea that only the children of doctors, dentists, and lawyers are ski racers is so fucking ignorant. But it fits your narrative so who cares if it's ignorant.

**snojones** · 01-13-2023, 09:46 AM

Talk about your apples to oranges blather....This thread is devolving into a parody of the great line in the movie Stand By Me, where they earnestly debate if Mighty Mouse could kick Superman's ass... If this continues I will be compelled to start arguing that Jeff Beck is the worlds greatest athlete.

Can we please return to cheering in awe, as skiing's definition of GOAT goes stratospheric with grace and big time style...

**MCskid** · 01-13-2023, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Did you time travel here from the 1980's or something? I belong to a private golf club - where you'd really expect a bunch of republicans - and the members are predominantly liberal. Granted it's California, but it's also the most populous state. Of the players on tour under 40, more of them skew left (or center) these days than right.

Also - this is a funny comment in a ski forum considering how privileged and expensive skiing has become over the past 15 years. Even more so, because it costs so much money to get into ski racing, especially at higher levels, you could argue the cost of entry for WC racing is about as exclusive and privileged as it gets - in the US in particular vs. Europe. If Mikaela grew up poor there's almost no chance she'd be at the level she is now - this isn't a knock on her at all, just basic economic reality.

You gophers sure are a sensitive bunch.

**jackstraw** · 01-13-2023, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by MCskid

You gophers sure are a sensitive bunch.

Golf is a sport. Surfing isn't because waves are inconsistent.

**MCskid** · 01-13-2023, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

I belong to a private golf club -

Judge Smails, is that you?

**Danno** · 01-13-2023, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by snojones

Talk about your apples to oranges blather....This thread is devolving into a parody of the great line in the movie Stand By Me, where they earnestly debate if Mighty Mouse could kick Superman's ass... If this continues I will be compelled to start arguing that Jeff Beck is the worlds greatest athlete.

Are we going to start talking about pullups?

Originally Posted by snojones

Can we please return to cheering in awe, as skiing's definition of GOAT goes stratospheric with grace and big time style...

she isn't racing for a number of days, that's the only reason this discussion is continuing.