Avalanche in the side country at The Canyons.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Interesting info. I went up Grizzly yesterday and they had a beeper gate running pretty early, even though it's not a resort. though it is Alta Ski Lifts land afaik.

Generally speaking I just get a bad vibe from the way Canyons markets and manages access to its sidecountry. Sounds like you know more and agree so not much else to say I suppose. Glad those guys are safe. Not sure Canyons peeps even give a shit outside liability though.

I'd say that patrol, and most of the employees care. Nobody wants to see people get hurt...but it gets to the point where you can only shake your head and throw up your hands at what a shit show it can be sometimes.

[concretejungle]

How about a tgr bro hug gets you through a gate? Is that ok with the mmqb's?

[Bromontana]

How about a tgr bro hug gets you through a gate? Is that ok with the mmqb's?

In case you've missed the UAC forecast this week, this is just another note on the instabilities inherent in E facing, low elevation ridges that were wind loaded last week. Cunt up a thread of your own creation pls.

A CONSIDERABLE danger still remains along the Park City Ridgeline, Mill Creek and other areas with a thin overall snowpack especially on northwest through east facing slopes. If you get onto slopes of 35 degrees in steepness in these areas it is likely you will trigger a large avalanche. Watch for areas with recent deposits of wind drifted snow throughout the entire region.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

How about a tgr bro hug gets you through a gate? Is that ok with the mmqb's?

that would work.

I hope im' not sounding like a mmqb, just trying to relay info and contribute to the discussion. ...Sure these guys were idiots for doing what they did, but I'm under no illusions that any one of us, experienced or not, are capable of making mistakes.

[itsnowjoke]

I was about 300yards from there today but I have never gone up 9990, if that's what you mean. Your points are well taken and I agree that access shouldn't be cutoff. Legally it can't, right?

Point being, Canyons has decided to engage in a footrace with every resort in North America for the biggest dick award (read: terrain and acreage).

They continually set up tourists and locals alike to get killed right outside their ropes and I think it's sick. Brighton has deaths out of bounds but they also have a culture and staff that keeps incidents to a minimum.. although they're probably the second worst in terms of setting up unprepared customers in dangerous terrain.

I just hate the Canyons. They sell lift tickets with vistas of open bowls and don't prepare their customers to ski the ones that are 100 yards from their lifts.

Seems pretty irresponsible to me. Especially considering their financial ability to invest in marketing and infrastructure.. but not safety. (patrol shack with check in post, beacon scanner, etc.

Canyons' major problem is that all of their chairlifts stop well short of the ridge line. No other Wasatch resorts have done this. Had the lifts gone all of the way to the top of the ridge in the first place, everything would be in-bounds and Canyons would have had the high alpine bowls to brag about. The layout leaves a little something to be desired for the hard-core expert. Unless you enjoy relying on your awesome, 100% correct avie skills. Then it's great.

[concretejungle]

that would work.

I hope im' not sounding like a mmqb, just trying to relay info and contribute to the discussion. ...Sure these guys were idiots for doing what they did, but I'm under no illusions that any one of us, experienced or not, are capable of making mistakes.

Not directed at you as you're out there and understand the situation. I just don't know what people want the canyons to do. You don't want to be dropped in on would be my greatest concern.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Canyons' major problem is that all of their chairlifts stop well short of the ridge line. No other Wasatch resorts have done this.

You're an idiot. There are supposed to be restrictions on how close to the top of a ridgeline you can put a top terminal. I guess that explains why you think the skilink is OK...
Do you think snowbird put the Peruvian lift 100+ft short of the ridgeline and made a massive 100yd tunnel through the mountain because they wanted it to look, and feel like Disneyland???...forget that, I'm frightened to hear your answer.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Not directed at you as you're out there and understand the situation. I just don't know what people want the canyons to do. You don't want to be dropped in on would be my greatest concern.

Honestly, that is is a major concern.

[itsnowjoke]

You're an idiot. There are supposed to be restrictions on how close to the top of a ridgeline you can put a top terminal. I guess that explains why you think the skilink is OK...
Do you think snowbird put the Peruvian lift 100+ft short of the ridgeline and made a massive 100yd tunnel through the mountain because they wanted it to look, and feel like Disneyland???...forget that, I'm frightened to hear your answer.

Yes, sorry, but it would be you who is the uninformed dumbass. Peruvian was located where it is for wind considerations. The Tram, Mineral Basin and Little Cloud reach the ridge line. Even the new Little Cloud reaches the ridge. Everything Peruvian serves can be reached by two other lifts, but the wind-sheltering of Peruvian was considered critical in keeping terrain open when the other lifts are on wind-hold. Sorry you were "frightened" to hear that!

[My Pet Powder Goat]

I'm under the impression the ski areas have an agreement with SOC not to build anymore new terminals on the top of ridgelines.

If i'm wrong that's fine, it's the other stupid shit you say that scares me

[itsnowjoke]

I'm under the impression the ski areas have an agreement with SOC not to build anymore new terminals on the top of ridgelines.

If i'm wrong that's fine, it's the other stupid shit you say that scares me

You are under the wrong impression, mister. There is no such agreement. Do you really think the ski areas want to make an agreement with the environmentalist whacko's at SOC? So SOC will be freed-up to constantly harass ski areas on OTHER issues? Funny.

You are the dude who insisted that lifts absolutely, positively cannot be built without roads, despite having ridden Peak 5 and Shortcut hundreds of times.

I'll bet there's a good reason why Canyons lifts don't go all of the way to the top of the ridge. Maybe they wanted to not involve the USFS in a lease deal, when the whole area could be contained on private property. I don't have the answer, it would be interesting to find out. Again, Canyons is unique in that the lifts don't go all of the way to the top. At any other area Canyons' killer side country would be inbounds.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

absolutely, positively cannot be built without roads, despite having ridden Peak 5 and Shortcut hundreds of times.

The reason skilink would need a road (cat track) is to transport guest in case of an evac. I've never said that lifts can't be built without roads, ever. They do it all the time using Helos.
Peak 5 or most chairs for that matter don't need a road because you can ski away once being lowered during an evac. there is a cat track in the span to remove evacuated guest from shortcut and the ganjola.



I guess I'm wrong about the ridgeline rule....bad policy on my part to call people idiots while drunk posting late-nite. even if you are an idiot

[itsnowjoke]

My Goat, I'd love to argue with you more on the Internet, but you've had your three strikes already.

Having a road or a cat track for evacuees to ski down is not a requirement. There are so many examples in the world where it is simply not possible. However, if was absolutely necessary to groom a track under Skilink for the remote possibility of an evac, I would suffer no heartburn.

I really don't want to turn this thread into a Skilink argument. There's another thread dedicated to that already.

I think we can agree that the guys who were involved in the slide the other day were very lucky, and we welcome discussions on the fact that Canyons side country is deadly serious.

Cheers!

D

[Wolfmansbro]

Obviously I'm being a little sarcastic here BUT... Utah resorts (taisker) wants this interconnected European style ski scene. So lets lets let the have what they want. Open the gates, remove the ropes and if its off piste consider it backcountry. Sure more people will die initially but sooner or later people will get the picture.
Maybe the problem is that people are so accustomed to controlled ski slopes that they just don't realize what backcountry travel requires.
I don't want to come off as too much of an ass but people need to start taking responsibility for themselves. Why do we need to make it The Canyons Ski Patrols responsibility to take care of people who don't take care of themselves with education.

[Bromontana]

What the resorts want comes behind what the residents want. Except in Summit Co. where RE developers have molested almost everything available.

[bestskieratsnowbird]

Obviously I'm being a little sarcastic here BUT... Utah resorts (taisker) wants this interconnected European style ski scene. So lets lets let the have what they want. Open the gates, remove the ropes and if its off piste consider it backcountry. Sure more people will die initially but sooner or later people will get the picture.
Maybe the problem is that people are so accustomed to controlled ski slopes that they just don't realize what backcountry travel requires.
I don't want to come off as too much of an ass but people need to start taking responsibility for themselves. Why do we need to make it The Canyons Ski Patrols responsibility to take care of people who don't take care of themselves with education.

this (unfortunately) isn't europe.

[yabyum]

this (unfortunately) isn't europe.

You can start at the top of Supreme (Alta), Ski down to Brighton, Skin up Guardsman's pass around the back of Jupiter, down the town runs at PCMR and be drinking a beer in downtown PC in a couple of hours. Whats this interconnection thing you talk of? PS all of the above can be done safely if the avie conditions are not to crazy.

[Slaag Master]

slide at the canyons?? groundhog day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bestskieratsnowbird]

You can start at the top of Supreme (Alta), Ski down to Brighton, Skin up Guardsman's pass around the back of Jupiter, down the town runs at PCMR and be drinking a beer in downtown PC in a couple of hours. Whats this interconnection thing you talk of? PS all of the above can be done safely if the avie conditions are not to crazy.

that wasn't supposed to come off as in favor of skilink as i am vehemently opposed as a backcountry user, sorry if that was misconstrued. i just meant from a liability aspect it's never going to be like europe, i wish people were actually allowed to take their chances provided they accept the consequences.

[baron]

Anyone see the snow analysis ,in the teton caldera underground radar last night...Computer analysis, of sun affect on snowpack was dramatic!!!,on the molecular level.

[Bromontana]

Anyone see the snow analysis ,in the teton caldera underground radar last night...Computer analysis, of sun affect on snowpack was dramatic!!!,on the molecular level.

no shit man