PM Gear Kusala pow

[splat]

It was mentioned somewhere that the tips have a bit more progressive flex than the renegade. What's the overall flex comparatively?

It's backing off the I beam and coming down in line with most of our other skis. I just ordered more cores and shaved .65mm off the core. In the meantime, I have found I can sand the cores on the wintersteiger and am getting the flex dialed in on a pair by pair basis. Got a lot of requests for different flexes and am trying to find a sweet spot for everyone who has made certain requests. So there will be a number of flexes, actually, until it settles out.

Tye 1on - I found them absolutely delightful in pow and on groomed. Looks Like I was at 98.7 for the bcl.
Jumped on them at that mark and never felt the need to try anything else. They never felt short but they felt quick and stable. I'm 6-2, 210 these days. Felt smoother than the Lhasa 186, not quite as easy in pow but, a million times smoothly grippier on hard stuff.

[Tye 1on]

surprised it wasn't better/easier than the LP186 in pow. LP seems to rip the harder surfaces just fine for me, but i'm a hack...

[splat]

Yeah, but you gotta forward pressure the shovel on the 186 Lhasas on the hardpack. These seemed quite friendly for as relaxed a stance on the grooms as the Lhasa allows in the pow.

[Tye 1on]

FKNA!!!!

[BaNosser]

bumpage for more pow footage..

Thuk-je zig

[BaNosser]

From Powdork's Kusala review page

[shroom]

i spent the better part of today on these. from 4-6" of heavy fresh, to mank, to chop, to park laps. im not sure where the PNW prototype falls in the flex range that's been settled on, but they hand flex stiffer than anything i've fondled. super smooth and predictable in 3D snow, they were a blast in that area- landings were very clean and strong as well. can't really comment on hard snow performance- spent a ton of time with a gummy trying to clean up the fresh tune on 'em, but they probably need a filing to get to where they need to be. i could see this being a hell of a touring rig.

[SchralphMacchio]

I spent last Friday afternoon on powdork's pair. Inbounds at Squaw Valley, spring conditions - bumps, crud, corn, mank, slushy groomers.

Apart from his funky Dynafit heelpiece (yes I think it needs to be serviced) I didn't have any problems with them. Which was a surprise, considering that I (a) have only been skiing for 3 "seasons" (not more than 5-10 days a season) and (b) weigh 130 lbs.

These skis truck. Stable at speed, predictable, pivot on a dime. Stiff as all getout, so when it's late in the day and the snow is bumpy/refreezing/worked these can be a bit to handle (for me). No speed limit that I could feel however. Point em and go, if you want.

Here was the most amazing impression that I took away from this ski though:
The skis did not feel even close to 124 underfoot. They felt like 112 underfoot. The reverse camber and stiff flex profile puts the edge pressure underfoot, and I think that's what makes it feel like you are on a skinnier ski when on edge. And then they pivot so easily that they don't feel overwhelmingly big even though they are so damn stiff.

The only thing is that I couldn't get them to do an accelerating carve up on edge - I could feel the nose sliding out. I think I need to be going about 15 mph faster to get them to carve. Or just put on 40 lbs. or so.

Anyways, fun stuff. Thanks for the chance to let me ride them. Makes me think twice about "fat skis" - since I've considered my 106 waisted skis "fat enough" ... and yet, these skis have that much more control and stability even though almost a full inch wider ...

[splat]

Glad you guys got out on them. Once I realized how stiff they would be with the layups we do for both the hybrids and the pure carbon versions, I backed off to retool the design, waiting until I had thinner cores and a lighter weight carbon to ratchet down the overall stiffness. I know those I beam bastards can be a bit intimidating on the flex, to say the least.. Pierre said he was trying to save us money with a thicker core so we could use less composites, like one sheet of fiberglass top and bottom, so he made the core thick. But I want them to have the glass/carbon feel in the flex of the hybrids and to not have the pure carbons be too stiff. Even stiff as hell, they skied very well for me. Intuitive is the word that came to mind.

While waiting for the thinner cores and more bases to build out the preorders, I figured this ski was good enough to deserve a really good mold to hold the perfect shape as designed by Pierre. So I made what's called a dish mold for them. The dish is a piece of aluminum with the base shape recessed into the bottom to hold the shape through pressing. If I was to make one ski all summer, I think it would be the kusala. This is the dish mold in the pic below. Just waiting for those new cores to get here...

[auvgeek]

im not sure where the PNW prototype falls in the flex range that's been settled on, but they hand flex stiffer than anything i've fondled.

They're in the "damn stiff" range. That's what Pat was hoping we'd comment about. I personally like the stiff-ass flex because I think R/R skis become MORE maneuverable when they're stiff. But let's be honest here; they're still softer than those absurd 202 L138s, which are basically 2x4s.

super smooth and predictable in 3D snow, they were a blast in that area- landings were very clean and strong as well. can't really comment on hard snow performance- spent a ton of time with a gummy trying to clean up the fresh tune on 'em, but they probably need a filing to get to where they need to be. i could see this being a hell of a touring rig.

Thing is, they rail hardpack better than any ski 115+ I've used. Better than the Rens, Billy Goats, etc. I should have had the shop do a partial detune, but after the 191 Fats of mine just not having the edge hold I wanted after being tuned, I figured we should get them sharp as shit and detune as necessary.

I think these skis could be a perfect pow-touring rig because they're just so damn versatile.

[shroom]

They're in the "damn stiff" range. That's what Pat was hoping we'd comment about. I personally like the stiff-ass flex because I think R/R skis become MORE maneuverable when they're stiff.

I will say that i think the stiffness throughout the ski seemed to generate a larger sweet spot. It may also be that the contact length on this ski is longer than the other reverse camber skis I've owned, IDK- I'm not that familiar with the specs here. Either way, I didn't have the feeling that I needed to sit centered on the ski at all times- I could get out over the tip and lean on it a bit when things got choppy and I was movin' fast; like I would over traditional camber. YMMV

[splat]

I was also wondering if you guys moved the demos fore and aft to pinpoint the sweetest spot for the bcl...

[shroom]

I thought they felt really natural on the line. im 6'2" 185, and I never thought I needed more ski in the 4-6" of heavy snow we were in. I definitely wouldn't want to be forward. I could hypothetically see going back ~1-2cm for float reasons in deeper snow, or for a bigger dude/someone that is used to having more tip, but I'm really not sure it'd be necessary given the stiffness. I actually thought I'd have tip dive issues given the length/mount point; but the flex seems to prohibit that, at least within the conditions I ski'd. I'd have to ski them hard in +12" to really be able to comment on that- just conjecture here.

[splat]

I thought they felt really natural on the line. im 6'2" 185, and I never thought I needed more ski in the 4-6" of heavy snow we were in. I definitely wouldn't want to be forward. I could hypothetically see going back ~1-2cm for float reasons in deeper snow, or for a bigger dude/someone that is used to having more tip, but I'm really not sure it'd be necessary given the stiffness. I actually thought I'd have tip dive issues given the length/mount point; but the flex seems to prohibit that, at least within the conditions I ski'd. I'd have to ski them hard in +12" to really be able to comment on that- just conjecture here.

Heh. I felt the same way when I skied them but we had almost a foot of fresh and it was a non-issue.
I'm assuming those were lined for bcl at 99cm from the center of the tip, tape pulled straight back, no bends..
I was at 98.7 and felt no need to adjust.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Your input helps me a lot as I sculpt the flex to match the shape. The elliptical core is pretty solid until the ends of the ski, so the flex will soften mostly in the tip. I don't think the ski will lose its ooomph for speed and hucks unless I reduce the stiffness a lot further than I plan to. But it's going to be fun dialing it down and skiing it and hearing other people's feedback. It's still a work in progress and I like where it's going.

[auvgeek]

I'm assuming those were lined for bcl at 99cm from the center of the tip, tape pulled straight back, no bends..
I was at 98.7 and felt no need to adjust.

shroom and I mounted demo clamps at at 99 from tip, straight tape pull. Assuming he adjusted both toe and heel piece, that's where he skied them.

I still think the flex in the tip shouldn't be too soft. I don't think you'll gain much maneuverability because the ski uses its rocker profile to pivot, not the shape of the ski or the flex.

I think suprechicken got out on them today, so I hope he chimes in. He prefers a bit more playful ski than I do, so it should be interesting to hear his feedback.

[Lindahl]

Why dial back the flex at all? Seems ppl like the flex...

[splat]

To see how it behaves. And to make sure a couple people who have skied them and want a softer pair get exactly what they expressed a desire for in their pairs. I've already shaved 1mm off the core and the reduction in stiffness is nominal. However, at this thickness, I can use two different carbon weaves to offer two different flexes in either hybrid or carbon. Making a stiff or softer flex off the same core allows more options.

[SupreChicken]

I enjoyed my time on these in soft snow. I'm super bummed we had the tuning issues we did, because of all the talk in the early part of the thread about how incredibly money these are on firm snow. 125+ hits with the gummy stone later and they are still not quite right. At 0:09 in BaNosser's video, you can see him skid perpendicular to the fall line. All 3 dudes who got on the ski yesterday were incapable of making it do that. Firm runouts were treacherous. It was HILARIOUS to watch the other two (Shroom and Matty, who are both phenomenal skiers) hunched at the waist, unable to turn the ski, cutting people off and basically gapering it up on a $1K prototype. Ironic and hilarious.

So for a firm snow review, read the first 8 pages of the thread.

However, I got to ride them the first part of the day in the less tracked heavy 6" of pow. We actually didn't figure out how badly they needed a detune until run 2 or 3.

In the soft, they were SWEET. The concept and feel is similar to the Renegade (I would be shocked if they hadn't felt similar) but my biggest complaint about the renegade was the small sweet spot. If I wasn't perfectly centered on that ski, it was pretty easy to fall. Not so on these. No tip dive to speak of. No scary moments trying to keep it together if I get out over the tips. The landing platform is great. I STOMPED some smaller airs (< 8 feet). Takeoff is incredible on such a light responsive, carbon ski. The last 10 feet before takeoff, air time and touchdown in soft snow almost feel continuous. It wasn't super obvious that I had taken off or super obvious that I had landed. Yeah. That smooth. I rallied through the heavy pow after it got a little thrashed like it was blower, throwing them around in trees and tight spaces without and desire or need to slow down.

The stiffness beat up my knees whenever I touched something firm underneath. They behaved best with a centered stance, but I could get out over the tips and they were WAY more there for me than my Rens. I also like the stiffness where it is, and If I were in utah and the pow was always 3%, I don't know that I would want or ever think I needed something this stiff.

HOWEVER, since i live in the PNW and April has been a nice, unexpected encore of heavy new snow, that stiffness is the difference between a nice smooth ride and getting tossed around.

I'm sort of wishing I had gotten my GPO in a stiff flex now. I still wish my gambits were a touch stiffer.

Auv is right, I do tend to prefer a more playful ski, and (sorry, Splat), that's probably why I don't own any PM gear products yet. Demo-ing Auv's lhasa fats led me to the conclusion that these just aren't playful skis.

They aren't as loose or surfy as the billy goat in the pow. But I couldn't sink them. I didn't have to change my stance or pay closer attention to my feet or balance at any point. I just pointed them and skied and they kept me up.

Again, because of tune issues, I can't comment on their firm snow capabilities. I really want to take them into some deep icy bumps (I'm not kidding -- product testing) and rage some groomers with a detune and see what everyone else is talking about.

Personally, full continuous rocker doesn't quite speak to me like a moustache profile. I like some camber underfoot, I like the feel of popping out of a turn, flexing the ski hard, and having it give back.

In a few words, though: this bad boy is smooth, light, damp, versatile (I think) and a lot of fun. The specs make it seems like it SHOULDN'T be a playful ski, but it really can be. Skiing it from your feet, centered and pivoting, there is a smoothness there that was awesome to feel and really made me like them. The rocker profile is money.

Changes: I would soften them SLIGHTLY. I would move the rocker 1 cm deeper into the shovel, and I would also fatten the shovel just a touch to shorten the radius my 1m or so. Basically the changes that ON3P made from the 11/12 191 BG to the 12/13, I think. I don't think that's completely necessary, but for my own style and preferences, I think that's a ski that I would like a little more.

I suspect that if you don't ride park, you could plate these with dynalooks, use p18s and dynafits and pretty much never need another ski.

Big thanks to Splat for sending these to the PNW.

[auvgeek]

^^Great write-up. Guess I should have had them tuned at a 1/1 with a slight detune north and south of the taper instead of a 1/2 with an emphasis on no detune. That's totally my bad.

I would also fatten the shovel just a touch to shorten the radius my 1m or so.

HERESY!

[steveski]

Good feedback chicken, and auv. Wish I could have made it out for the test party. I appreciate the repeated offers, I just haven't been able to make it happen yet. Gaining LOTS of info and feedback for having never laid a hand on the skis thanks to this thread.

[splat]

Thanks, SupreChicken. I like the details. Your comment about firm snow is one that I got from a couple other people in Europe. Yet, powdork and I love it on the hardpack. This is something I'm trying to isolate, pinpoint and cure. The only thing we could conclude is that it's the mount point. Like shroom, I felt like it was good to go when I clicked in and I never moved it around. They just ripped everywhere for me. I think I tweaked my knee on a bomb hole that sneaked up on me so I haven't been back out on them. I hopped over it and caught the edge of it of in a weird off-balance way, but my knee seems to be getting better. As soon as I can, I need to get back on them and play with the bcl.

[BaNosser]

Reading these most recent reviews I can not wait to get mine.. Auv.. if I have a day off this week (Thurs?) and it continues to dump up here I may come down and grab these and take them up to Baker to play... that be ok? I'll PM you when I see my schedule..

Once again.. thanks guys for the write ups..

[auvgeek]

^^Do it.

[shroom]

The elliptical core is pretty solid until the ends of the ski, so the flex will soften mostly in the tip.

This sounds schweet to me, at least relative to where the PNW model sits.

^^keep me in the loop zak, i took 'em home yesterday. we can relay 'em up to BN-

[auvgeek]

I can grab them tomorrow night. Headed your way anyway, I think.