Base grind or invest in tools?

[sethschmautz]

So I recently purchased a pair of skis that appear to need more work than I originally thought. There are a couple of coreshots on each ski, and quite a few scratches, gouges, etc. I'm probably more anal in this regard than I need to be, but I'd like to get the skis back to better shape. For coreshots that I've inflicted, I've just repaired with my iron and ptex. Can do this again, but feel like my repairs could be better with better tools. The question that I'm trying to decide is whether to just have a shop repair these skis (nothing that ptex and grind couldn't solve, I'm sure), or buy some more tools?

Typically I like to work on my skis, so I'd lean toward the latter. However. . . there's a part of me that likes the idea of just having them at a better spot to begin with. What tools are you guys using for base repairs, flattening, restructuring?

Currently, I'm running with a ptex iron, a variety of ptex types (metalgrip, standard, etc.), a metal scraper (that probably needs to be replaced), gummy stones, fibertex, and probably a few more that I'm not thinking of. I have no flattening or structuring tools (would that help with this?). I have no shop experience in my background, but have been successful so far repairing my skis with what I have. I'd love some input from the collective.

Thanks,

Seth

[~mikey b]

Both. Get a grind and some new tools.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Scratches often look worse than they are. Something about the way the light reflects off the ptex. Then you touch it with a fingernail and realize it's barely a flesh wound.
Base grinds are great for that stuff. Also refreshes the structure and makes everything nice and flat and smooth and ready to absorb a lot of wax.
Then repair away with what you have on what's left.

[Mofro261]

Ptex and an iron do okay, a base welder like a Ski mender RP360 does a much better job but will set you back a couple hundred I think (I've been borrowing one from ACH). There are cheaper versions but I cant vouch for how good/bad they are.

Match a ptex gun with a Ski Visions Base Planar/ structure tool. These run around $50-60 and do an excellent job at flattening with a metal blade but also use structuring stones to finish up. Solid combo for home repairs that come out as well as any shop.

Look at Tognar tools and/or Slidewright- there are videos on how to use and good instructions.

[sethschmautz]

Match a ptex gun with a Ski Visions Base Planar/ structure tool. These run around $50-60 and do an excellent job at flattening with a metal blade but also use structuring stones to finish up. Solid combo for home repairs that come out as well as any shop.

I've reached out to Terry at Slidewright also. Would the skivisions tool knock down some of the scratches? I'm wondering whether this can sort of take the place of a base grind in some situations or if they actually serve totally different purposes?

[dcpnz]

Kind of depends how seriously you want to go. I enjoy repairing my own gear and I'm willing to accept that my results are more functional than pretty sometimes.
That said I've had reasonable success with the smaller cheaper ski mender tool that others have dissed around here. Melt a little metalgrip in first. I've got metal scrapers and one of those bahco handle scrapers but I find a panzar file easier to use to level any overfill without ripping it out again. I do not (yet) own flattening or structuring tools like mentioned above but probably next purchase.
Caveat I really only fill the big holes. If they're superficial then the next base grind will take care of them.

[XXX-er]

It depends, my BD verdicts were concave which i understand was how a lot of those foam core atomics came and that would have taken a LOT of work so I had them stone ground at whistler and they came out awesume ... way better than I could have done

As long as the bases are flat & the edges are sharp If you just got some shots &divots fill em wax em and forget em

[galibier_numero_un]

I fall somewhere in the continuum between obsessive, and the philosophy of the late, great, Doug Coombs in his Q&P (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi4N4duxwgk).

The skivisions base tool gets you closer to the obsessive side, and is a great deal. It's especially useful for a new ski with a concave base, but I'll use it after doing p-tex repairs as well.

I used to burn hours (and files) taking a new ski from concave to flat. This tool seriously improves my quality of life. Pay close attention the first time you use it with the steel bar (just like any other new tool) - especially with super wide skis.

[edit] corrected URL: http://www.slidewright.com/skivision...uring-tool.php



Cheers,
Thom

[sethschmautz]

Pay close attention the first time you use it with the steel bar (just like any other new tool) - especially with super wide skis.

Cheers,
Thom

Hey Thom,

I've seen that Combs video before. It's a good reminder about how much this really probably matters. Terry just emailed something similar about function over craftsmanship and pride. But...it keeps the voices quiet when I do what they ask.

Can you explain what you meant by this statement? Be careful not to take too much Material?

Thanks,

Seth

[galibier_numero_un]

Hi Seth,

I frequently reference the Q&P to try to maintain perspective as well

One area I've freed the demons up a long time ago was with respect to wax selection, and I particularly like Doug's comment about this. It's a philosophy I've always endorsed ... "it's gonna be right somewhere on the mountain".

The Ski visions tool takes minimal material off, due to how both the steel cutting bar and the stone mount, and are oriented in the handle. The steel tool so sharp however, so you'll need to exercise a bit of control to keep it from wavering about, and on a super-wide ski, you'll need to pay attention to maintaining full contact over the width of the base. It's really not a big deal. If you can control a mill bastard file, you'll quickly get a touch with this. Just pay attention on your first couple of swipes.

As far as cleaning up p-tex repairs, the steel cutting bar can sometimes tug on the p-tex and pull part of a weaker weld out of the gouge. You might need to re-visit bigger gouges with more p-tex.

Cheers,
Thom

[splat]

It depends, my BD verdicts were concave which i understand was how a lot of those foam core atomics came and that would have taken a LOT of work so I had them stone ground at whistler and they came out awesume ... way better than I could have done

As long as the bases are flat & the edges are sharp If you just got some shots &divots fill em wax em and forget em

A lot of materials cure like that, from carbon to foam. Next time you get a concave base, fill the center end to end with clear base weld, then sand and grind. Saves edge and base.

[XXX-er]

yer right Splat I can probably do a better job than that Montana Saphir machine, so what grit should I use in my sears belt grinder or should I be using my angle grinder ?

[stuckathuntermtn]

oh, and you probably don't need a new scraper, you just need to sharpen it.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

You need a sure form plane to remove excess p-tex from repairs before you scrape, file or grind.

[sethschmautz]

I have a good way to sharpen my scrapers. Indeed been hesitant to take the sureform to my bases. It seems like there is too much potential for collateral damage so I haven't tried it...

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It's like anything else, learn how to use it. It takes way more work and time to get the extra p-tex from repairs off without the sureform. A couple of light passes and you're done. Finish with a sharp scraper.

[splat]

yer right Splat I can probably do a better job than that Montana Saphir machine, so what grit should I use in my sears belt grinder or should I be using my angle grinder ?

Always go belt. Start with 80 grit, finish at 120.
Use the angle grinder in soft brushing strokes for a barber pole structure. Post pics!

In all seriousness, some buds and I did a variety of finished structures on some skis and then put them to a very unscientific side by side slide test last week in a straightline on a near flat run. Thumbprints to barber pole to centered chevron. The chevron won.

Best thing you can do if you have a shop to take your sticks to is to do your own base and edge bevel, fill and sure form (it won't do much more than remove the excess) and ask the shop "how much for one pass on the sander and two on the stone, no wax, no edge." Should be able to get that for $20 and it's worth it.

[Cocximus]

Scuff pad + ptex is nuff for me.

[auxym]

I have a good way to sharpen my scrapers.

Do elaborate, I have a couple of old scrapers around that I've been meaning to try and sharpen someday.

[~mikey b]

Put a file in a vice. Scrape scraper until sharp. Keep it flat on vice. Only takes a few swipes.

[sethschmautz]

Best thing you can do if you have a shop to take your sticks to is to do your own base and edge bevel, fill and sure form (it won't do much more than remove the excess) and ask the shop "how much for one pass on the sander and two on the stone, no wax, no edge." Should be able to get that for $20 and it's worth it.

This is good info, especially as this thread is for a pair of Kusalas. Splat, are you suggesting doing it in exactly that order?

What is the factory base and edge bevel?

Seth

[Timberridge]

It's like anything else, learn how to use it. It takes way more work and time to get the extra p-tex from repairs off without the sureform. A couple of light passes and you're done. Finish with a sharp scraper.

I use a microplane "fine" grater. Available at most kitchen stores. Its finer than the wood oriented devices so less chance of a f/u. Just don't use it to grate nutmeg later, or your carrot cake will taste like p-tex. Follow with a sharp scraper as mentioned, but you'll need to learn how to burnish an edge on the scraper. Plenty of how-to video's on the Youtubz. If you go right over it with the scraper when its rough it will pull the repair right out. I then use a bit of 600 paper and then the brass brush to give it some fuzz to hold wax.

[Mofro261]

Put a file in a vice. Scrape scraper until sharp. Keep it flat on vice. Only takes a few swipes.

for plexi scrapers a few passes over 80 grit sandpaper next to a straight edge(I use a piece of 1x6) will also do the trick.

[~mikey b]

and you don't have to clean the file....

or own a vice

[Timberridge]

and you don't have to clean the file....

or own a vice

The 1 degree side bevel guide w file puts a nice edge on it as well. I don't have a 0 degree.