Thread: Risk with Kids

Each year as the ski season approaches I start questioning why I take on risk in the backcountry with a Wife and kids at home. I have grasped that I am not going to stop traveling in avalanche terrain altogether and 20+ years out there gives me a sense, (maybe partially false), that I usually make well thought out decisions. However, as the years go by I tend to get more conservative. Part is simply because having kids doesn't allow me to get out as much as I did pre-kids. Decisions on what to ski seem to be vastly different when you are out more days than not! But, the overwhelming factor in the risk I take is returning home to my family.

Conditions obviously play a role in the risk most people take on in the bc regardless of whether or not you have kids. Given a choice between two routes, (up and down) with similar aspects and conditions, one coming with higher acceptance of risk, and the other being a low risk situation, I would find myself opting for door #2 in most conditions. Choosing conservative skiing hasn't seemed to put a damper on the fun factor for me but sometimes I look up after a run and say, "I coulda skied that safely too" while looking at the steeper, more exposed line. Then I remember what I am heading home to.

For those of you that are parents, how do you assess your time in the bc? Has it drastically changed since you became a parent? Anyone who wants to form a meadow skipping, aging parent club in the Tetons, lemme know.

answer found ,by the ghosts of the overlook hotel

as a parent i try and spend every possible day i can in the slackcountry and choose my bc days when the lifts are stopped. used to spend more time climbing till my 40# boy could load chairs. once he is in a 265boot were heading back uphill. hopefully mofro will chime in because he has waaay more experience with this question.
bf

Originally Posted by schwerty

For those of you that are parents, how do you assess your time in the bc?

More carefully. That comes not only from being a parent, but from being older and realizing more accutely than ever that every second I've got left is much more precious than I had ever thought before.

Has it drastically changed since you became a parent?

A little but I wouldn't say drastically. I've always been pretty careful, especially about terrain selection which I think is the #1 weight in bc safety. I do remember being put in a bad situation once in a Wallowa couloir and pretty much wrote off ever touring with that guy again, so partners are key too.

Anyone who wants to form a meadow skipping, aging parent club in the Tetons, lemme know.

I'm all about the soft snow, so meadow skipping is for me.

Not sure I've gotten safer since I had kids but I'd like to think I was pretty safety aware before.
Either way, Schwerty, let's get some turns in together this year.

During my Child's younger years I wasn't a skier but I was a climber and I definitely ramped down because of the responsibility I had as a father and husband.

The real struggle for me was once my son was old enough and started to ski the backcountry WITH me. That makes you think I can tell you. It scared me shitless at first and I would be super conservative to the point that he would get bored with the terrain I took him on. I made sure he was trained well and I had a super group of friends who would mentor him and let him come on trips with us. Once I was confident of his skiing skills and more importantly his judgement skills I became less worried and pretty much treat him like a regular ski buddy.

I now tell him he should be the avy poodle and ski first since he's not a father like me!

He's now going out and doing it without me...climbing Shuksan and Rainier, rock climbing and alpine climbing and I'm back to worrying.

Carry extra life and disability insurance. They'll get along fine without you as long as they have the resources.

Originally Posted by schwerty

Each year as the ski season approaches I start questioning why I take on risk in the backcountry with a Wife and kids at home. I have grasped that I am not going to stop traveling in avalanche terrain altogether and 20+ years out there gives me a sense, (maybe partially false), that I usually make well thought out decisions. However, as the years go by I tend to get more conservative. Part is simply because having kids doesn't allow me to get out as much as I did pre-kids. Decisions on what to ski seem to be vastly different when you are out more days than not! But, the overwhelming factor in the risk I take is returning home to my family.

Conditions obviously play a role in the risk most people take on in the bc regardless of whether or not you have kids. Given a choice between two routes, (up and down) with similar aspects and conditions, one coming with higher acceptance of risk, and the other being a low risk situation, I would find myself opting for door #2 in most conditions. Choosing conservative skiing hasn't seemed to put a damper on the fun factor for me but sometimes I look up after a run and say, "I coulda skied that safely too" while looking at the steeper, more exposed line. Then I remember what I am heading home to.

For those of you that are parents, how do you assess your time in the bc? Has it drastically changed since you became a parent? Anyone who wants to form a meadow skipping, aging parent club in the Tetons, lemme know.

I view it more as taking on risk vs taking on excessive risk, and part of it is as much about aging (sadly) as it is about the wife and kids. Testosterone peaks in your 20's, and begins to decline after 30 and with it so declines the desire to continue doing some of the "stupid shit" you might have done in the past.... for the most part. For BC skiing this is offset somewhat by increased risk due to experience in avalanche terrain and sometimes complacency that accompanies the self assessment of our abilities based on that prior experience.

Overall since having kiddos, I'm much less likely to go huck my meat but I've also wiped out my knees enough times that I really shouldn't be doing that anyway. I rarely seek out you-fall-you-die terrain anymore but still enjoy technical skiing. I still ski as motherfuckingfast as possible through tight trees but I'm quite content to lap the hippy pow. I still tour solo maybe a lot more than I should, mostly due to time constraints and the need to drop the kids off at the area and head out into the BC, but still be back to pick them up at 3pm. I'm probably willing to take on a greater amount of risk than most people but rarely would I consider myself reckless unless I get full on powbrain. I've had my son out on BC adventures since he was 7 and have tired to teach him safe travel and avalanche avoidance technique, though these are now limited to early season and late season since he's skiing lift serve/racing in the heart of winter.

If it's still fun, it's still fun whether you slaying the gnar or milking the meadow.

Originally Posted by Mofro261

I still tour solo maybe a lot more than I should, mostly due to time constraints...

what he means is that he gets tired of waiting for anyone dumb enough to try to tour with him

Got the first one on the way and have been pondering this myself. Two of my best ski buddies (husband & wife) have a 3 yr old and they go hard (she is just starting to get into big mtn comps).

Having a kid didn't really seem to effect their behavior in the BC if anything they have amped it up as they have progressed.

I know I will still ski hard but I think my buddies will be going first more often this winter...... Agree about the aging part slowing you down.

I kinda think being conservative is key to staying alive regardless of whether you have kids or not. Especially when every year it seems like guys with more knowledge and experience than me die.

Sheeiit, as usual buster, scotsman and mofro said it all and said it better than i could. I'll just add that taking the kid BC was a whole new world of eyes wide open for me. When he gets a little older (he just turned 16) and before he starts heading out with his own posse, we'll be doing an avy course together.

Because my kid is not with me full time, it is possible that I may push the envelope more than if he was home every day. (just thinking of some of the stuff I skied last year, not necessarily fall you die, but first descents with consequence).

once you get thru the hard part it gets easier.

Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

I'll just add that taking the kid BC was a whole new world of eyes wide open for me. When he gets a little older (he just turned 16) and before he starts heading out with his own posse, we'll be doing an avy course together.

.

I noticed a certain bro being a good example to his kids when they hit the BC

Along with the BC setup he gave them a 1week aviy course at Burnie ...sure way to build a ski bum

Tough one, no solid answer from me. I have a beautiful 5 year old daughter but I don't want to stop getting after it. My risk management has gotten much better with age though, that is for sure. I don't like getting hurt at all anymore.

Risk is like gambling. It's fun for the poor people because winning could change their lives. But the rich people already had everything to begin with.

We're parents. We're rich. We don't really feel like we're missing out on much.

Originally Posted by 4matic

Carry extra life and disability insurance. They'll get along fine without you as long as they have the resources.

This. But once you are worth more dead than alive learn to sleep with one eye open.

For those of you that are parents, how do you assess your time in the bc? Has it drastically changed since you became a parent? Anyone who wants to form a meadow skipping, aging parent club in the Tetons, lemme know

In the realm and hinterlands of the bc my focus has always been on the task at hand, thoughts of the outside world seemed to fade away with each step that took me higher and further, so my thoughts were and still are always about the simple and seemingly inconsequential details of where I am and what I am doing. I never thought of touring and skiing as being influenced with life as a parent or husband in the respect of "what if." The one thing I feel that is the most determining factor of all is age and it's effect on endurance, stamina, strength and tolerance of pain. The trade off is that with age hopefully comes wisdom from experience.
If I lived in your area would be a joiner for sure of the meadow skipping aging parents.

2 boys at home.. 10 & 7.. they both ski and I've taken the 10 yr old out on a few low key bc days.. I still hit it with fellow bc skiers when conditions warrant.. and we're pretty conservative... and with wife and boys in mind, I just bought an airbag.. I'm still gonna ski backcountry.. I'll be as careful as possible.. but the unexpected is always possible.. now I hope I have increased my chances for a good outcome and a return home to them if the worst does indeed happen.. I'm contemplating adding an Avalung to it also.. just not exactly sure how to go about that properly..

Maybe we should quit driving cars around too once we become parents, those things are dangerous!

If you've been charging it for years without getting injured, I'd keep on charging. Once your skills start slipping, you'll never get it back. And, not having all the senses firing and reflexes sharp, I'd think you're more likely to get hurt. Stay in shape, avoid flat landings, it's all good.
Conversely, if you've been reckless and have a history of getting broke off, you might wanna change your approach a bit. And if your backcountry decisions need change, you probably should never have been there in the first place.

i'm down for the meadows, that way i don't have to train with my bacon...

Great discussion. For a good dose of perspective on BC risk taking as a parent, take a look at this month's Outside magazine. There is a moving first person account of last year's avalanche at Steven's Pass which killed Jim Jack, Chris Rudolph, and Johnny Brenan. Johnny was married with two young kids. The last time they saw him alive was when he left them in the RV in the parking lot for what he thought would be a quick Tunnel Creek Run. An absolute tragedy for all involved, but I think the hard charging parents out there will especially be able to relate to Brenan's story.

it's all about decision making..........Avalanche & skier collision are the big dangers....Lets ski with our brains ,while everybody is "getting after it" please!

Being a parent has certainly influenced me, but I get out plenty. Losing my third close friend to a slide last spring has me thinking about it more than anything. It really is about decision making, and how it gets addled for whatever reason. If nothing else I would hope being a parent, or becoming more conservative for any reason, those questionable decisions get a second look, or perhaps we don't put ourselves in those positions in the first place.

I will say one thing about meadow skipping and conservative lines in deep snow- today's fat skis have completely changed how fun it can be. With 125 under foot a mild pitch in powder can be pretty amusing where it might have been a slog in the past.