Berthoud Pass 2012-2013 Observations, Conditions and Stoke

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

If you aren't able to take responsibility for your own actions while skiing the BC, you shouldn't be there in the first place. And it certainly shouldn't be someone else's fault that you got yourself in a shitty situation. Although, we all know how much TGR forums loves to have a scapegoat.

2) The lack of an active search/rescue/aid by the numerous people below makes a pretty strong argument for no victims, especially if you know the terrain. I would think that'd be an easy mistake to make, even for a trained professional. Still the wrong decision, but an easy wrong decision to make and a great learning experience.

people shouting from a debris pile below a crown should be enough evidence for someone who markets themselves as an elite himalayan alpinist to take 30 seconds and descend around the 100' of well known terrain and investigate.

see that's the thing. I don't doubt Markus' skill, I believe the people posting in here to that effect. But even experts make mistakes. A simple
"mea culpa, let's learn from this" would have ended the whole thing. It's the "I am an avalanche/backcountry god and cannot make mistakes that could be discovered by plebes such as you" attitude that is so over the top. It seems fairly obvious that he did not assess everything about the situation correctly, but it also seems fairly obvious that he will never admit that.

Danno, very well said. I couldn't agree more, and that was kind of my point in asking/posting questions. As far as Markus and AWA goes, his responses to this are all I need to know as a consumer to make decisions about where to spend my time and money on that type of service.

[Lindahl]

The woman was doing a poor job of communicating. If she screamed loudly she absolutely could have gotten those guys' attention. She could hear us telling her there were people above her. If it were me I would have done everything in my power to make it known I was there... Even when I first found her, she wasn't screaming for help or anything. If I hadn't been looking for her I wouldn't have noticed her.

Wierd behavior for sure...

[georgio]

Not just some guy, some snowboarder.

I was on skis on this day

[bean]

I was on skis on this day

Way to ruin the fun.

[DasBlunt]

holy shit, Berthod Pass has turn into a fucking gaper circus.

[simple]

holy shit, Berthod Pass has turn into a fucking gaper circus.

Bullshit. Weekend with fresh snow? Where is it not a shit show within 2 hours of Denver?

The rest of the time Berthoud is a classy place to be.

[LIP]

Turning into a gaper cicus!?!?!?!?!? Bert's been that way for at least a decade and keeps getting worse. I'm constantly amazed more people don't die up there given the conditions and the excessive levels of utter stupidity that I witness everytime I go up there. Stupidity should be far more painful than it is!!

[BraddA]

I'm constantly amazed more people don't die up there given the conditions and the excessive levels of utter stupidity that I witness everytime I go up there. Stupidity should be far more painful than it is!!

There is only one solution:

Frankly I'm surprised we don't see more thuggery in the "line-up."

[smitchell333]

A view of the avy from across the way today. Majorly wind affected since the weekend. 7 mile was fun.

Markus' CAIC observation with his account is his own words:
https://avalanche.state.co.us/obs/av...p?obs_id=17096

Teaching a L1 avy class, we discussed the spatial distribution of today's avy problems and pinpointed the slope above the cliffs as a most likely area to trigger a wind slab. Right then, we witnessed a lone snowboarder enter that slope and triggering the slab. Being caught at the extreme margin, she went for only a short ride and got flushed against a small group of trees at the edge above the cliffs. The majority of the avalanche cascaded over the cliff. After the avalanche, the snowboarder appeared to be moving further downhill and out of our sight. Later on, we noticed rescue efforts being underway. Later, my friends from Alpine Rescue told us the snowboarder got stuck at the cliffs and needed to get rescued. She was uninjured (but likely shaken up from the avy experience and cold from waiting for her rescue for several hours).

[hatchgreenchile]

Bullshit. Weekend with fresh snow? Where is it not a shit show within 2 hours of Denver?

Eagles Nest Wilderness, Montezuma, Ptmarigan Wilderness and the IPW for starters....

[Cosmic Suncloud]

Eagles Nest Wilderness, Montezuma, Ptmarigan Wilderness and the IPW for starters....

that montezuma place sounds awesome! is there a trail map?

[Pinner]

that montezuma place sounds awesome! is there a trail map?

Stop by Vapid Adventure Outfitters at the base area. They should have what you're looking for.
While you're there, ask Rontele to show you his avalanche detector. It's unbelievable.

[hatchgreenchile]

that montezuma place sounds awesome! is there a trail map?

Sure does, but you have to prove that you are worthy...

I think lapping Peak 9 from 9A-4 on a Sunday would be a place to start.

[Kevo]

So it sounds like the woman was above the cliffs after the avi ran its course and then either descended on her own down into Rush or slipped on the bed surface and slid into rush?

[DasBlunt]

Maybe the immediate Berth pass area cannot handle so many BC travelers at a time?

What about a partially managed area with no lifts and some areas to hang at the parking lot. Plenty of room to build something simple near the lot. How many people does it take to do the ski cuts, build routes and do some control work, then post routes and conditions?

Here is an example;

Bankin-Evelyn Backcountry Skiing Recreation Area
Hankin-Evelyn Backcountry Recreation Area Road Conditions Updates

After checking with the CAC the BBSS is now posting Hankin-Evelyn Backcountry Recreation Area road conditions updates on the CAC Skeena/Babine regional discussion forums located here http://avalanche.ca/Forums/forums/28.aspx. All posts will be made under the profile "BBSS Hankin-Evelyn Road Conditions”, posts can be found by pasting the profile name in the "Search" box in the upper right hand of the screen.

While there please check the latest avalanche bulletins at http://www.avalanche.ca/cac/bulletin...t/northwest-bc and after your trip post your recent field observations on the forum. For More info email BBSSHankin@gmail.com.

Introduction To the Project

The Hankin-Evelyn Backcountry Recreation area is a new approach to backcountry skiing in the Bulkley Valley. This Recreation Area creates significant new below-tree-line skiing and ensures access roads are maintained throughout the winter. It’s all about supporting the backcountry ski community by opening up a wealth of non-motorized ski touring terrain for all abilities. Spanning low elevation snow shoeing and cross-country loops, beginner, intermediate and expert tree runs, or high alpine bowls—Hankin-Evelyn offers something for everyone.


It began in 2008 when Brian Hall had the vision and secured funding to make it a reality. Jay Gilden and the Bulkley Valley Backpackers Society stepped in to provide support and through 2009-2010 runs and trails were cut, a cabin was upgraded and a warming-shelter constructed. In late 2010 the Bulkley Backcountry Ski Society also threw its support into the project and joined Recreation Sites and Trails BC in taking the lead role in managing the Recreation Area. The local business community and dedicated individuals have supported this project from the beginning— winter road plowing is done through their generous contributions. While the core infrastructure is in place, there will always be room for improvements and ongoing maintenance. Recreationalists and volunteers are the lifeblood of this project—keep those skin tracks set and chainsaws sharp!

Hankin Mtn Area
The Hankin Backcountry Ski Area features low-elevation snowshoe and crosscountry loops (not trackset), nine below-tree-line runs, an overnight cabin (Hankin Lookout), a day-use warming shelter, and provides access to alpine bowls. The Ridge Trail also connects to the Evelyn Backcountry Ski Area for longer traverses. Outhouses are available at the warming shelter and parking lots.

Note: the developed ski trails reach to tree-line and are adjacent to alpine bowls. Those alpine areas are not part of the developed trail system and anyone who ventures into those areas does so on their own.

Evelyn
The Evelyn Backcountry Ski area provides access and egress to a variety of attractive alpine basins surrounding Elliot Peak and features a gladed run from tree-line to valley bottom.
http://www.bbss.ca/hankin

[bendtheski]

That link didn't work. I saw a heli too, about 1pm. I assumed heli meant serious injury, not "possible" lost people.

Not always; Flights may do a fly-over in an area where a slide has been reported to give a size-up. They also now have an aerial beacon, http://www.adventure-journal.com/201...acon-searches/ but it's more likely that they were delivering a snow-tech and avy dog to the site, or insterting more personnel into the field, or both.

[Telemarketeer]

Funny how taking the lifts out of Berthoud, actually allowed it to turn into more of a shit show than before. I remember plenty of deep days there in the 90's when there was hardly anyone on the hill, half full busses, and super laid back, fun vibe. Now it's the complete opposite. Oh well.

[bendtheski]

Now that I know where this happened - still confused why the Clear Creek Sheriff's office called my family's house looking for me. I wasn't parked at the main lot, parked downhill at the pulloff by no names. Did anyone else receive calls from them? It's the first time I've had anyone call my house based on the registration for my car looking for me. Freaked my family out.

FYI, a second slide path was observed on the East side of the pass with a single snowboard track leading in, and no clear view of the debris field, or tracks leading out. The deputy who made the observation saw your vehicle parked near where he estimated the rider would have reached the road, and asked dispatch to attempt to contact the registered owner.

Very sorry for upsetting your family.

[Lindahl]

Funny how taking the lifts out of Berthoud, actually allowed it to turn into more of a shit show than before. I remember plenty of deep days there in the 90's when there was hardly anyone on the hill, half full busses, and super laid back, fun vibe. Now it's the complete opposite. Oh well.

I feel like that was skiing in the 90s in general. Before fat skis, powder wasn't that popular. Sure, you had your powderhounds, but average joe could care less, as long as it was softish. Now its quite the opposite. Only recently has it become all about the powder day.

[bendtheski]

I don't think there is any search and rescue operation in Colorado that is going to charge for their services. It would take some idiocy far beyond what happened this weekend for them to consider doing that. They do not want someone to hold off on calling them because they are afraid of getting billed. More tragic results can happen with that line of thinking.

^This. I don't like the idea of stretching resources thin, or putting responders at risk unneccesarily, but getting professionals on scene can often be the only way of getting an accurate assessment of an appropriate response.

[georgio]

Without knowing much about the ski area's permits or any legal details I've gotta think the area would have done much better now than it did 10-20 years ago.

[Danno]

Not always; Flights may do a fly-over in an area where a slide has been reported to give a size-up. They also now have an aerial beacon, http://www.adventure-journal.com/201...acon-searches/ but it's more likely that they were delivering a snow-tech and avy dog to the site, or insterting more personnel into the field, or both.

Cool, thanks for the info. I forgot we had a mag with insider info.

FYI, a second slide path was observed on the East side of the pass with a single snowboard track leading in, and no clear view of the debris field, or tracks leading out. The deputy who made the observation saw your vehicle parked near where he estimated the rider would have reached the road, and asked dispatch to attempt to contact the registered owner.

Very sorry for upsetting your family.

I wish I knew the names of stuff up there; was this at the first switchback heading down the east side of the Pass? Because I saw one police car there (in addition to all the cars at the top) and saw a slide on that headwall you look at as you drive down, and also saw tracks.

[Telemarketeer]

I feel like that was skiing in the 90s in general. Before fat skis, powder wasn't that popular. Sure, you had your powderhounds, but average joe could care less, as long as it was softish. Now its quite the opposite. Only recently has it become all about the powder day.

Yeah, that's definitely part of it. There's also the fact that it was (somewhat) patrolled which made for safer skiing and less chances for BC newbs to get in over their heads. But there definitely was a more friendly, laid back vibe where everyone was just having fun. Now, I swear that the place sees more traffic than it ever did with lifts, and people get so aggro on the hill and on the interwebs. It really is a shame.

[tommyvee]

I feel like that was skiing in the 90s in general. Before fat skis, powder wasn't that popular. Sure, you had your powderhounds, but average joe could care less, as long as it was softish. Now its quite the opposite. Only recently has it become all about the powder day.

I spent a lot of time skiing Berthoud back when it had lifts, had season passes some years. The average Berthoud skier back then was on telemark gear and definitely seeking powder, which is why the bus system eventually evolved. But I am guessing that total numbers of off-piste skiers in the US has gone up more than 10X since the 90s, so what was a tiny fringe activity is now normal life for 10,000 freshman at CU, etc. Plus skiing long skinny tele skis and leather boots meant that 90's people were challenged on less steep terrain, the masses did not push as hard into prime avalanche terrain. But I think the main difference was that the 90's Berthoud skier was a crunchy granola stoner more mellow than aggro, compared to today's GoPro-wearing cliff-hucker playing with $3K worth of equipment, reading the CAIC bulletin and posting video on a smart-phone. Fat skis and AT bindings make a difference, but I think the biggest change is cultural.
So "Get Off My Lawn, You Damn Kids"!!!

[bendtheski]

Cool, thanks for the info. I forgot we had a mag with insider info.



I wish I knew the names of stuff up there; was this at the first switchback heading down the east side of the Pass? Because I saw one police car there (in addition to all the cars at the top) and saw a slide on that headwall you look at as you drive down, and also saw tracks.

FOBP has trail maps on their site. http://berthoudpass.org/resources/maps-2/ We keep them handy in dispatch for situations like this since most of us are not that familiar with the terrain and names of the runs, although Alpine team members frequently are. Having the maps handy is a really useful tool for a dispatcher to form a mental picture of the scene, especially when you don't have clear information from an r/p, in this case a Cdot truck driver, 2nd hand through their dispatch.

I worked this call on Saturday, and although it occurred on the Grand County side of the Pass, CCSO Special Services and ART also responded. It was actually one of our firefighters that first reported the second slide above pumphouse (I think).

One of the frustrations of being a dispatcher is that you usually never get to actually see the event that you send responders to. The pictures and discussion in this thread do a great job of filling in the blanks; thanks to all for posting.

With respect to those criticizing SAR for response time; keep in mind that at least ART are all volunteer with team members spread out across the front range. Even in ideal conditions, response times may be impacted by multiple variables, not the least of which is traffic on I-70. Saturday was one of the busiest traffic-wise of the season so far, and will probably be bad on weekends for the foreseeable future. The lane expansion near the twin-tunnels in Idaho Springs is bound to have some impact as well.

I'm pretty much a n00b when it comes to BC skiing, but I'm at least familiar with some of the realities as far as cell service in the mountains, and response times. These are some of the things I consider before venturing into the backcountry, and I encourage others to do so also. Some friends and I did a mellow tour in Butler Gulch on Monday, and I found out that my Sprint cell phone doesn't get service until half-way back to Empire. I since found out that a SPOT beacon can be purchased with a 1 year contract for about $220.00, although there are probably some cheaper options available, but hey, if I can afford $120.00 for a pair of Hestras... I already carry too many gizmos in the BC, but I know my wife (who doesn't ski) would really appreciate being able to track my movements while I'm touring (or hiking and mountain biking for that matter) and out of cell range. Shit, she was panicked enough after not hearing from me for just 5 hours Monday after hearing about the events on BP this weekend; $220.00 is a small price to pay to put her mind at ease, and not place too many restrictions on my play-time.

Stay safe everyone!