New bike vs. upgraded roadie - help me decide

[here2day]

I ride in a coastal section of southern California which has some Cat 2 and plenty of Cat 3&4 climbs. I currently average around 90 miles per week, usually in three 30 mile rides. For every 10 miles ridden around here one usually climbs 1,000 feet. In 2005 I bought a Specialized Allez Elite new (105 shifters, 105-fd, Ultegra-rd, FSA Gossamer crank, ALX295 wheels) and have put approx. 20,000 miles on it, no upgrades, just routine maintenance. I've never weighed it on a bike scale but my guess is it's easily over 20lbs.

What I'd like to accomplish is to have a bike that helps me climb faster (on the cheap - two kids in college). The people I ride with can afford much better machines and I'd like to try to level the playing field a bit.

I'm trying to decide if I should buy a new or slightly used bike (I like the CAAD 10) or upgrade the Allez. I know where I could buy a new CAAD 10 5 for around $1,200 (seems like a good price) and think I could sell the Allez for around $400. That said I'm not sure they'll be that different and $800 hurts...

Here are my questions:
- How important is the frame to climbing performance - any opinion on the 2012 CAAD 10 frame - significantly better than the 2005 Allez?
- Would lighter wheels on the Allez have a significant effect on climbing performance?
- Would a lighter/stiffer crankset be a factor?
- Anything else I should think about?

I'm a biking JONG, started riding to help rehab a blown knee, appreciate any opinions or advice I get.

Thanks.

[flatlander#2]

htfu and ride more, interval train this winter.

[reynolds.trailrun]

^^^^ This will work.

I think you know more than you claim. Less weight all around definitely helps with climbing, less mass = more hauling ass and less hurting ass on the climb. Either way could get expensive depending on the your rides condition and the CAAD 10 condition. Upgrading shit can get expensive. I did nearly a complete drivetrain overhaul on my 2008 Jamis Quest. Cost me damn near $800 for cassette, crankset, chain, and RD + plus cables/cable housing... and I did all of the labor. The only thing the same is the brifters and FD. I could have sold the bike for ~400 and bought a new ride for the total investment + sale. Granted the new ride would have been on the same playing field but new is new. Now I have an old frame with new shit on it. Eventually this frame will need to be replaced. But right now it is still and old bike with $800 thrown at it.

You could get a fairly decent frame for what the CAAD 10 and switch everything over. And slowly upgrade as shit wears out. Is that what you had in mind?

[bsavery]

- How important is the frame to climbing performance - any opinion on the 2012 CAAD 10 frame - significantly better than the 2005 Allez?
- Would lighter wheels on the Allez have a significant effect on climbing performance?
- Would a lighter/stiffer crankset be a factor?
- Anything else I should think about?

Buy nice wheels first. Makes way more difference.

[schuss]

Buy nice wheels first. Makes way more difference.

Plus it's very easy from the tech department. I'd do some googling to find some of the heavy parts on the bike and see if you can easily drop a decent amount of weight without too much investment. The cranks you have are 930g, so it would be easy to drop at least another half pound by updating those.

[here2day]

^^^^ This will work.

I think you know more than you claim.
You could get a fairly decent frame for what the CAAD 10 and switch everything over. And slowly upgrade as shit wears out. Is that what you had in mind?

Thanks but trust me - even though I've been riding for 7 years - I'm a dope when it comes to this sport. I've skied all my life and know what will get me bang for the $$. Cycling on the other hand...

Am looking for the "aha item" if such a thing exists. It may just be "ride more" but I'm way past my prime and could use some help from the equipment.

But... getting a lighter fram like the CAAD10 and upgrading over time is an option. Though as your experience suggests, once complete it may be an expensive option.

[here2day]

Buy nice wheels first. Makes way more difference.

Thanks - this is what I'm looking for. Internet search led me to a company called Neuvation which has a nice looking set of light wheels for $250. While Neuvations get mixed reviews it's probably worth a try.

[jqualls]

I have always bought used bikes one because I cant afford the price tag of a new ride and second you can find a like new bike for less then half the price and this time of year if you are willing to wait for the right deal and spend time searching the webz you can probably find something 60-75% off what it would cost new. I personally cant justify the extra money just to say it is new. I bet you could find a pretty pimped out used ride for $1200 this time of year but I agree with bsavery focus on something with a good wheelset.

[TomCrac]

If you are switching back and forth between "race day" wheels and "training" wheels, you will certainly feel a nice
difference. There are tons of deals out there for "old" technology. Do not discount motivation. If you are psyched to get out there and ride on it, its working.

[nickwm21]

Thanks - this is what I'm looking for. Internet search led me to a company called Neuvation which has a nice looking set of light wheels for $250. While Neuvations get mixed reviews it's probably worth a try.

I am in the market for my first true road bike. I've got a thread here about it. I did some research on internet "discount" wheelsets. Seems like there are three popular options:
- ROL
- Neuvations
- Bicycle Wheel Warehouse

This thread is a good read: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/whe...on-206310.html

[Riverdown]

I have always bought used bikes one because I cant afford the price tag of a new ride and second you can find a like new bike for less then half the price and this time of year if you are willing to wait for the right deal and spend time searching the webz you can probably find something 60-75% off what it would cost new. I personally cant justify the extra money just to say it is new. I bet you could find a pretty pimped out used ride for $1200 this time of year but I agree with bsavery focus on something with a good wheelset.

QFT, but it's a two way street. I put my Yeti up for sale at the beginning of September, just to see what would happen. Guy buys it 4 weeks after it's been on 6 different websites, and he got a great deal. I'm all of the sudden in "oh shit" mode, as I think I've got 4-5 more weeks of riding. Ended up with a new bike from Competitive Cyclist for 25% off. Point is, if I waited to sell until spring, I bet I would have sold for about the same amount, and probably would have bought used for what I paid for new. YMMV.

[Hicks]

Buy a spandex suit - that will level your gayness.



On a more serious note, along with building in more climbs in you training rides make sure you got the right setup on the chainrings and cassette which fits YOU and the course you are riding. Much more important than anything else. You could spend $ 10 k on a new bike but if you don't have the aforementioned dialed in your buddies still gonna smoke you uphill. Better save the cash and try to get more rides in.

Just for reference in order to feel a notable difference you need to save at least 3 lbs total, depending on your entire system weight. If you are a heavy dude it's closer to 4 lbs. Also nothing is more overrated than wheels - at least for us mere mortals. Those freakish discussions about inertia and stuff are often hilarious, rigidity and stiffness of a well built wheelset are much more important factors if you already have a good punch in your legs.

[bbense]

As far as climbing goes, you need to look at percentages of weight wrt to the total weight of you + bike. (i.e. if you want to climb 1% faster, you need to make the bike 1% of the total weight lighter. ) The lighter you are the more losing weight on the bike helps and the heavier you are the less it matters.

Light wheels help with accelerating/sprinting and making the bike feel "fast", but for steady state climbing don't matter much.

Cheap things that can make a difference

1. Clipless pedals and stiff shoes.

2. Better tires. ( tires with a high thread count and low rolling resistance ).

If your crankset is isis or one of the other ones with a separate BB axle, upgrading to a newer 2 piece setup certainly feels faster and will drop a little weight.

For long climbs getting gears you can "sit and spin" will help you make the most of what horsepower you have, but ultimately speed uphill is not about
the bike but the power to weight ratio of the climber. And sadly short of a bottle of EPO, you can't buy that.

Losing 5 lbs off of you is by far the cheapest upgrade....

[wcf3]

Given that you don't ride that much (for a roadie) a few pounds of weight or better wheels are going to make little difference. The one thing that can make a significant difference is gearing. Odds are your lowest gear is too tall for the amount of power you can put out on the many bigger hills you ride. If you can't average at least 60 (better 70+) rpm going up these hills your lowest gear is too tall.

Change that and you will see an immediate efficiency => speed improvement on longer climbs.

[RShea]

A good set of wheels (more important would be the better set of hubs on the new wheels) will help if you are still running the stock wheels that came with the bike. The other items on your bike are going to be small increments in loosing weight. If you are a few pounds over weight, then that is the easiest starting point instead of throwing money at a few grams of savings- light weight parts (that can also be more prone to breaking)... Carbon fiber, titanium are common to save a few grams if you have the budget, but you can spend a bunch of money and a frame upgrade to carbon fiber can be costly.

Work on the engine also as mentioned, intervals, longer rides that can help build some increase cardio, hills work all can help. Work on spinning instead of mashing a bigger gear also.

Neuvation wheels for the money are probably a good choice if you are looking for budget (sub $300) wheelset. Some racer types I know that have purchased them speak highly of them (some use them as training wheels and have higher end race wheels), others race with them.

[juanbendedknee]

“Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades.” – Eddy Merckx

[phatfreeheeler]

Fitness is king, but upgrades are nice too. They are a bit like drugs. Here is your bike with some upgrades to get it down to 17lbs...

I spent about $700 on top of the original $750 I paid for the bike in the first place. The way I do it is ask others who are riding top stuff because those people have upgrade-itis and they will often flip you older stuff cheap knowing that is easier than selling it in the usual way. 9-speed, 10-speed, 11-speed doesn't matter, just as long as it's top shelf stuff and works together. Make sure to watch the weights though cause some expensive parts are actually heavy. Most roadies unload parts way before they are worn out, so you can often get used stuff cheap and get lots of miles out of those parts. good maintenance can keep even old stuff running like clockwork. I got the full Dura-ace setup when a friends wife ran her bike through the garage on her car. I've done some minor stuff since, but not much more than maintenance.

Anyone who says I could have gained as much through fitness as I gained by dropping 4lbs off the bike in 1 day is crazy. To gain the same from fitness takes a couple months in the best of cases. Having the lighter bike got me stoked about biking so my fitness then grew on it's own because instead of getting dropped and being ok with it, I killed myself to stay with others. It really was a noticeable change to my riding buddies.

Or you can drop $3k+ to get the equivalent new bike but with the latest spec and carbon frame...always a good choice if the money isn't needed elsewhere...I do love the feel of a nice carbon frame, but some more than others

[here2day]

Fitness is king, but upgrades are nice too. They are a bit like drugs. Here is your bike with some upgrades to get it down to 17lbs...

I spent about $700 on top of the original $750 I paid for the bike in the first place. The way I do it is ask others who are riding top stuff because those people have upgrade-itis and they will often flip you older stuff cheap knowing that is easier than selling it in the usual way. 9-speed, 10-speed, 11-speed doesn't matter, just as long as it's top shelf stuff and works together. Make sure to watch the weights though cause some expensive parts are actually heavy. Most roadies unload parts way before they are worn out, so you can often get used stuff cheap and get lots of miles out of those parts. good maintenance can keep even old stuff running like clockwork. I got the full Dura-ace setup when a friends wife ran her bike through the garage on her car. I've done some minor stuff since, but not much more than maintenance.

Anyone who says I could have gained as much through fitness as I gained by dropping 4lbs off the bike in 1 day is crazy. To gain the same from fitness takes a couple months in the best of cases. Having the lighter bike got me stoked about biking so my fitness then grew on it's own because instead of getting dropped and being ok with it, I killed myself to stay with others. It really was a noticeable change to my riding buddies.

Or you can drop $3k+ to get the equivalent new bike but with the latest spec and carbon frame...always a good choice if the money isn't needed elsewhere...I do love the feel of a nice carbon frame, but some more than others

Thanks - think upgrading this frame over time, on the cheap, is the right answer for me.

I'm 5'10" 160lbs so dropping weight, while possible, isn't easy or fun.
More riding is also possible but like you say a bit more performance out of the bike will help motivate me to rasie my game.

I think the Nuevations at $250 and trying to pick up better components via friends, CL, eBay, etc. will be the plan.

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice.

[bbense]

I'm 5'10" 160lbs so dropping weight, while possible, isn't easy or fun.
More riding is also possible but like you say a bit more performance out of the bike will help motivate me to rasie my game.

Riding with others ( i.e. unofficial racing ) is where light gear actually makes a big difference. There it's not so much about absolute speed as matching other riders accelerations. Your buddies aren't actually getting to the top all that much faster than you, but if they can make a small gap ( even a half second ) over a short distance, you mentally "let go" and
just ride at your own slower pace. At your dimensions, getting lighter gear does make sense.

Riding in a group is about making those short sharp accelerations and that's why roadies obsess about even a few grams. Grams make a difference in acceleration rates, but not that much difference in top speeds. You'll notice this if you go out and demo a high zoot bike. You don't go all that much if any faster, but you get up to speed a whole lot sooner.

[XXX-er]

Losing 5 lbs off of you is by far the cheapest upgrade....

Just about any doc will tell you the best way to be more healthy is ... lose 10lbs

I think fit is the biggest thing you want to look at in a road bike

i dunno if its still the same but Canondale used (7yrs ago) to heavily discount overstocked bikes in the fall to kick them out so we could order them from c'dale and they would be shipped to northern canada in < 2 weeks so with a shop rat discount I got a road bike for half of list price,

the bike even got cheaper AFTER I had ordered it