Thread: North Cascade Heli-Skiing whacking trees in violation of its SUP

Not good

High altitude tree cutting by heli-skiing outfit draws criticism

"We don't feel like we are getting off the hook and are taking responsibility" between the lines "nothing a little cash can't solve...right? "

easier to roll the dice than deal with the paperwork...

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No bueno!

He calls this a "blip" that shouldn't damage their reputation, but it happened at at least three different sites? Bullshit.

They should pull their permit.

He said the trees were mistakenly cut for a variety of reasons, including having a new pilot who worked on a similar operation in Alaska, where they were allowed to cut trees at landing sites for safety reasons.

I am pretty sure no heli company is cutting trees in the national forest up here. That is a piss poor excuse and probably a straight up lie. I am not positive but will check into it up here.
I just got off the phone with Glacier district and Cordova district and there is no cutting in roadless areas and not in any permits. Maybe Haines but I doubt it.

Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission? Or not

Five Heli-Mary's and two nights in the father's bedroom...

Originally Posted by Jamespio

He calls this a "blip" that shouldn't damage their reputation, but it happened at at least three different sites? Bullshit.

hey, he's just a businessman trying to make ends meet. Maybe his guys are trained to do it that way, if it's not how you want it to be done - too bad...

white bark pine was considered for ESA listing....just sayin'

The way I see it there is only one way that NCH can make this right:


discounted Heli rides.

Good for NCH...too many fucking trees up there. Needed some pruning!

I know nothing, but a few cut trees seems like SOP in most forests. As a city slicker, I was a bit surprised when I first saw it happen. Since then, I've seen a number of resorts cut trees that I doubt were permitted. Also, in cabin areas, I've seen hazard trees permitted after the cut - the USFS seems generally reasonable about this.

Seems if the landing spots are called out in the operating permit, cutting for safety is reasonable. If they are creating new landing spots, that ought to have paperwork first. And why come they couldn't land somewhere away from the bigger trees?

Originally Posted by BFD

They should pull their permit.

I am pretty sure no heli company is cutting trees in the national forest up here. That is a piss poor excuse and probably a straight up lie. I am not positive but will check into it up here.
I just got off the phone with Glacier district and Cordova district and there is no cutting in roadless areas and not in any permits. Maybe Haines but I doubt it.

maybe on State of AK land... Big difference between what the FS will allow and the BLM and State of AK

Well, if you have a 15 year operating history on BLM in northern Idaho, and someone sees a wolverine, kiss your permit good bye.

I say that, it was just a house cat

Should've blown them up instead of using a chainsaw..

If God wanted trees up there, why would he invent helis and powder?

Major dick move. But the photo of their terrain softened my anger a bit... yowza!!!

Originally Posted by jfost

hey, he's just a businessman trying to make ends meet. Maybe his guys are trained to do it that way, if it's not how you want it to be done - too bad...

He doesn't have the permits to do what he did. This is not a case of him operating within his rights and folks being upset, this is a case of operating outside what the permit allows.

His guys need to be trained to do things properly. If they are not, that is on him.

I used to do permits for the FS in Alaska. I've seen guide companies, construction companies, power companies, etc. do much worse than that and be handled firmly and fairly. I've seen folks get away with more and be hammered for less. A lot of times, the managers and/or employees of the company that screw up really do not know they are doing something wrong. A lot of times, communication between the FS and permit holder is not as good as it could be. A lot of times, people don't read or pay attention to the terms and conditions of the damn permit. To me this looks like something they might have been able to get permission for if they had worked with the FS on improving customer and employee safety at LZ's.

I need to start a consulting business handling special use permits for outfitting and guiding companies...

Probation for heli-skiing outfit that illegally cut trees

also, this was posted on NCH\\\'s website a couple of weeks ago

Non-compliance issue
September 30th, 2012

Recently we received a notice of non-compliance from the United States Forest Service for cutting branches and trees on a ridge top. We apologize for this, for our actions and offer that this incident is an aberration for us with several contributing factors. Simply put, our intent was to establish safer landing options for an existing run. We will paying restitution in this matter and have implemented new procedures.

Going forward, we will demonstrate we are a responsible outfitter utilizing public land (as our operational record will show we have for the past 25 years with no violations).

Please consider that there are two sides to every story, in light of what is being presented by our long-term detractors and sensationalized in the media. If you have any questions or concerns, or would like further clarification on this issue please don’t hesitate to call or contact us at the NCH office. Thank you for your understanding.

and getting certification so a Forest Service permit administrator can fly in the company’s helicopter to inspect operations.

I've met Michael Liu, and maybe he added that stipulation in there. Maybe.

I flew A LOT for the FS in AK inspecting heli ops, power projects, comm sites, etc.

The Forest Service, especially around these parts could do with some heavy pruning and trimming themselves.

Half the time their rangers don't even know the laws they are enforcing.