Thread: Big Tupper Closed Down

Another victim of Sierra Club bullshit.

Never got to experience the place while open, but have done probably 100 or so tours there. Sad day for the ADK.

http://skibigtupper.org/1690/article...upper-to-close

Bummer. That place is soul. I used to shred there in the early 90's.

I'd agree that the SC blows all the little goats it can find and leaves the big dogs of mining, timber and oil alone. That's what's fucked up about a lot of these groups.

But it sure looks like Big Tup stuck their necks out by attempting to develop 700 living units and claim 6400 acres of land:

http://www.adirondackcouncil.org/Tup...Map%20JPEG.pdf

Smells a little like a land grab gone bad.

Buster has a good sense of smell. A Trump wannabe wanted to build zillion dollar homes all around the place, making believe it was going to turn into Aspen, while using other people's money. He missed the housing bubble by eight years.
Nobody is going to ski there anyway. It's a small, meh, nothing mountain miles from anywhere. Why would anybody drive by Gore to get to that. Whiteface grabs the rest. A sad story that a lot of poor people up there hitched their dreams to.

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Buster has a good sense of smell. A Trump wannabe wanted to build zillion dollar homes all around the place, making believe it was going to turn into Aspen, while using other people's money. He missed the housing bubble by eight years.
Nobody is going to ski there anyway. It's a small, meh, nothing mountain miles from anywhere. Why would anybody drive by Gore to get to that. Whiteface grabs the rest. A sad story that a lot of poor people up there hitched their dreams to.

I think this description of the development is a bit embellished. Did they have some trophy homes? Sure they did. Was it going to be the next Aspen? No. Furthermore, the development was approved, this is just SC sticking its nose into matters to justify their donations to the big wigs elsewhere to try and show they can actually do something.

I do agree that the development would have been better served back in the boom times, but in typical APA fashion, when this was proposed 8 years ago, boom times were here, and red tape jacked up the rest.

I love the ADK, but certain things just drive you crazy.

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Nobody is going to ski there anyway. It's a small, meh, nothing mountain miles from anywhere. Why would anybody drive by Gore to get to that. Whiteface grabs the rest.

How you are mistaken. I grew up skiing Big Tupper from the age of 3-18. When I lived in Tupper I hopped on the ski bus and took it directly from elementary school to get in a couple of hours every day before dinner. I broke my leg on trail 6 when I was five and my dad (a voluntary ski patroller) had to leave me there to go fetch a sled.

We built jumps all over the mountain. We hit icefall cliffs in the woods. They built a massive booter called The Kangaroo by tower 4 each year and had jumping comps that my little brother, Robb, frequently won even though he was tiny. On the rare days it was open, Chair 3 was a different world and gave us the opportunity to ski western-like powder. It taught us well. Well enough that when we visited Crested Butte (still as tiny teens), the patrollers laughed at us when we checked in to hike up to Headwall. They eventually let us go and we ripped perfect tracks in plain view down a face that was just a step up from our home mountain.

Big Tupper ruled. And people who grew up there have a special affinity for the place. It's one of those mom and pop ski areas that you can't help but love. And people do come, people who want to avoid places like Whiteface (or Iceface as we called it). People throughout northern NY and the Ottawa area. It was real, down to earth and straight-up fun. Granted, the numbers of skiers were far fewer than the bigger areas, and that was its problem. Tupper Lake is a depressed economy and didn't have the allure and grandeur that Lake Placid had.

Finally, here's an interesting note: I grew up there, Todd Jones of TGR skied there through college, and James Angrove of RAP Films spent a lot of time skiing Big Tupper. Pretty cool for a tiny place no one knew about.

Big props go out to the volunteers who brought Big Tupper back to life the past couple of seasons. I really hoped to take my kids back there someday. Hopefully that can still happen.

Originally Posted by huckasoreass

Finally, here's an interesting note: I grew up there, Todd Jones of TGR skied there through college, and James Angrove of RAP Films spent a lot of time skiing Big Tupper. Pretty cool for a tiny place no one knew about.

Big props go out to the volunteers who brought Big Tupper back to life the past couple of seasons. I really hoped to take my kids back there someday. Hopefully that can still happen.

Truth, those volunteers were certainly practicing a labor of love.

Should still make for a good tour, was my first taste and it still rocks.

All the axe grinding agenda spin just makes me dizzy.

The bottom line is that it's bad for all of us everyone else when the little areas fold.

Well, I suppose NY state tax dollars could be siphoned off to support the place and the memories, but, ain't going to happen. Let's face it, again, hardly anybody is going to ski there. Hardly anybody lives there, and the people who live there dream of leaving for a better life. Seems like the people you mentioned did, too. North Creek, home to Gore, and almost an hour closer to the southern population centers, can only support one old condo complex and a few hotels and eateries that come and go and would be a funky old ski area if tax dollars weren't pumped into the place with abandon. Sorry, but, ski areas cost money, and there isn't any for this thing unless Cuomo get's all turned on by it for some reason, but, he caught enough grief keeping Bellayre alive by folding it into ORDA last year. Times are tough.

This is typical nonsense for the ADKs. The state has pretty much written it into the constitution that makes it damn near impossible for any new development within the park, thus ensuring the demise of many historical communities within the blue line.

I was not a fan of the proposed development as it never felt right to put that many trophy homes in Tupper Lake. However, I do a lot of work in the ADK and feel for the residents. Their economic future is the sacrifice made to have the ADK remain "forever wild".

I have seen TL go further down the tubes since the 70s. That town needs to cater to middle class outdoors lovers that might spend 50 -70 days a year there rather than the uber wealthy who want to come in for just the major holidays. Reasonably priced condos built on private land near the hill and lake would be a win win.

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Paging Mountain Riders Alliance.. ...MTRA to the white courtesy phone please.

My first powder day was there on a middle school ski club trip.... Bummer

I didn't think I would ever say this, but, I'm with Benny here.

One of my buddies goes to SLU and was going to be the blogger for BT. He got a trail maintenance day together with a bunch of his friends from the OC, I drove up from Saratoga and the guy in charge said we were going to clear one of the steeps there (thunderbird?) for the upcoming season. We were all stoked on it, got there, and were told that we didn't have authorization to clear it because the guy wasn't sure whether or not the groomer would make it up the trail or not. We ended up clearing a small island of trees off lower Charlie's.

They sold off all their snowmaking equipment to Plattekill to fund their project.

One of the higher-up guys at Titus mountain had been fired for stealing electricity, and BT was quick to hire him. The BT guy we were working with talked about the Titus guy like he was a god because of it.

They really were trying to compete with Lake Placid. Even though I had never skied BT, it couldn't compete with Whiteface in an capital standpoint.

They were doing it all backwards. They wanted to build a resort that had a ski mountain, not a mountain with a resort.

I would love to see the place open back up as a small grassroots place, much like West Mountain is to the Saratoga/Glens Falls/Queensbury area, but that is not at all what the intention was here. Hopefully I'll get a chance for a few tours up there this season.

Sad to hear for those who loved it.

I learned to ski at Belleeayre, down in the Catskills. I'm glad to hear it's still around, albeit barely. I'll never forget being 8 and looking up at the upper mountain from the lower mountain. Those trails seemed too steep to ski when I was that age.

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I'd agree that the SC blows all the little goats it can find and leaves the big dogs of mining, timber and oil alone. That's what's fucked up about a lot of these groups.


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Shell Oil says high.

I do agree that the Sierra Club does not go after the oil/timber types enough.

Originally Posted by BC13

I was not a fan of the proposed development as it never felt right to put that many trophy homes in Tupper Lake. However, I do a lot of work in the ADK and feel for the residents. Their economic future is the sacrifice made to have the ADK remain "forever wild".

I don't get the connection. "forever wild" precedes skiing at Big Tupper and the development of ski areas by a number of decades. Sure things don't help but isn't the problem the economics, well, suck for most of New York? It's cool and all but if you live in the NYC metro and have the $$$ for a trophy home would you choose Tupper or somewhere out west that's the same commute time via plane?

Originally Posted by Long duc dong

I do agree that the Sierra Club does not go after the oil/timber types enough.

Well, duh.
I figured that out a while ago and stopped donating to them and the Conservation Coalition, many of whose members belong to the Bohemian Club which is cutting down it's stands of some of the largest redwoods left.

It pisses me off no end that those schmucks go after organizations that don't have enough money to fight them. The other factor about this is that they often attack developments whose intention is related to recreation and fun, but leave alone those devoted to real environmental destruction a la the Silent Spring. The roots of Protestantism.

Once the APA issued that permit it should have been hands off. Some fascinating jurisdictional legal arugments have to be ironed out here. I bet it will be a rather hot topic at the NYSBA Env. Law. Section meeting in Lake Placid. If not, I'll make it one.

Originally Posted by ski_adk

This is typical nonsense for the ADKs. The state has pretty much written it into the constitution that makes it damn near impossible for any new development within the park, thus ensuring the demise of many historical communities within the blue line.

That's not true. If the APA had rejected the permit I might be inclined to agree with you. That's not the case. I need to read up on this more to see what the grounds for the A. 78 lawsuit are. Certainly I have some questions about how that trumps and superceeds the jurisdiction of the APA.

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Once the APA issued that permit it should have been hands off. Some fascinating jurisdictional legal arugments have to be ironed out here. I bet it will be a rather hot topic at the NYSBA Env. Law. Section meeting in Lake Placid. If not, I'll make it one.

Isn't this the nature of Article 78 that was the fulcrum of the suit?

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Isn't this the nature of Article 78 that was the fulcrum of the suit?

Unlikely. Article 78 is really just a mechanism to challenge the actions of an Administrative agency in New York. You need to have some reason to the agency did, or didn't do what they should have done. The fulcrum as far as I can tell is that the APA - allegedly- didn't follow proper procedures in deciding to issue a permit to the BT project.
Wading through the absurdly extensive briefing now actually. When I come up with a clearer position, I'll share it.

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

The fulcrum as far as I can tell is that the APA - allegedly- didn't follow proper procedures in deciding to issue a permit to the BT project.

Oh damn. And here I thought that was the lever.

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

I don't get the connection. "forever wild" precedes skiing at Big Tupper and the development of ski areas by a number of decades. Sure things don't help but isn't the problem the economics, well, suck for most of New York? It's cool and all but if you live in the NYC metro and have the $$$ for a trophy home would you choose Tupper or somewhere out west that's the same commute time via plane?

Or about ten mountains in Vermont that are 2-4 or more times as large, have a fully developed infrastructure, and a thriving bar and restaurant scene nearby.

The last time rich people built trophy homes up there was in the late ninteenth century. You know, before the car and airplane.

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

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The last time rich people built trophy homes up there was in the late ninteenth century. You know, before the car and airplane.

Now Benny, just because you and I remember the good times doesn't mean all the kids do.