REVIEW(s): 12/13 Salomon Guardian 16 / Atomic Tracker 16 AT Binding

**JFE24** · 09-18-2012, 10:33 AM

Since we currently have several hundred threads on these bindings, but most have necessarily been conjectural / speculative, I figured it might be good to start a new thread that is specific to real world use, and we encourage everybody to post up as they get time on these.

We'll get the ball rolling. We have a total of 10 days of skiing down in Las Leñas on these things. So this review is preliminary and we will continue to update, but hopefully has some useful information.

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...-16-at-binding

**pfluffenmeister** · 09-18-2012, 10:54 AM

this space reserved for irrelevant banter.

**JFE24** · 09-18-2012, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

this space reserved for irrelevant banter.

Absolutely perfect post.

**glademaster** · 09-18-2012, 11:08 AM

Speaking of irrelevant banter, when is the MVP review going to be up? I'm excited to hear more about how it skis, seeing as I have a pair on order.

**JFE24** · 09-18-2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by glademaster

Speaking of irrelevant banter, when is the MVP review going to be up? I'm excited to hear more about how it skis, seeing as I have a pair on order.

The Guardian / Tracker now officially has the highest concentration of irrelevant banter of any AT binding in history. Mention the word, and IB ensues. I should probably update my review to reflect this.

(And the MVP review will be up by Monday at the latest, possibly sooner.)

**Kim Jong-un** · 09-18-2012, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by JFE24

(And the MVP review will be up by Monday at the latest, possibly sooner.)

If you make any baseball comparisons, don't copy Praxis and spell Ripken with an -in.

Switching to football, the Duke will likely appeal to Dolphins fans, whereas Steeler fans should be more attracted to the Atomic.

**JFE24** · 09-18-2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kim Jong-un

The Duke will likely appeal to Dolphins fans, whereas Steeler fans should be more attracted to the Atomic.

Duh. Jong.

**glademaster** · 09-18-2012, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by JFE24

The Guardian / Tracker now officially has the highest concentration of irrelevant banter of any AT binding in history. Mention the word, and IB ensues. I should probably update my review to reflect this.

(And the MVP review will be up by Monday at the latest, possibly sooner.)

As long as the mention of irrelevant banter doesn't cause IBS to ensue we're all good.

Excellent, I'm excited to hear what you thought of them. I've purchased skis without demoing them, but this is the first time I've purchased a new design with minimal feedback available since I bought some first model year Pocket Rockets way back when.

**whyturn** · 09-18-2012, 01:01 PM

what no weight, you guys are getting soft. thanks for the prelim

**JFE24** · 09-18-2012, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by whyturn

what no weight, you guys are getting soft. thanks for the prelim

Unfortunately, we received the bindings already mounted to the skis, and didn't think it would be worth ripping them off to get a weight. But it means that we don't have actual weights of either the bindings or the skis, which sucks. And we hardly bother with manufacturers' stated weights anymore.

So the first person to get their new pair and weigh them on a legit scale - with screws - shall win the Non-IB award for this thread.

**ecskier7** · 09-18-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by JFE24

Unfortunately, we received the bindings already mounted to the skis, and didn't think it would be worth ripping them off to get a weight. But it means that we don't have actual weights of either the bindings or the skis, which sucks. And we hardly bother with manufacturers' stated weights anymore.

So the first person to get their new pair and weigh them on a legit scale - with screws - shall win the Non-IB award for this thread.

Getting mine on friday, hopefully and I will get a weight up for everyone.

**Driver** · 09-19-2012, 10:15 PM

Good mini-review thanks. I'm 75% mounting these on my newest quiver addition, but 25% still going with Dukes which I know and trust. Assuming I go with these, i'll post up thoughts after I actually ski em.

**Moralkaka** · 09-20-2012, 10:34 AM

The comments om heel riser flipping down midhill and heel locking sounds not so great in my ears. Plus the new wide duke mount pattern leaves space for dynafit inserts... I will wait at least one season before jumping the guardian train.

**JFE24** · 09-20-2012, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Moralkaka

The comments om heel riser flipping down midhill and heel locking sounds not so great in my ears. Plus the new wide duke mount pattern leaves space for dynafit inserts... I will wait at least one season before jumping the guardian train.

God I hate that I can't say more about the riser thing. Total fluke? Just my pair? All I can say is that the downhill performance was so good, I wouldn't care at all about the riser if I tended to stick to fairly mellow skin tracks. But IF you're skinning steep tracks on faces where fidgeting around could result in tomahawking down big lines, well, that's why we need to get back out on these things.

**pappag** · 09-20-2012, 11:17 AM

Looks like Snow Inn has these for $285 (no clue how reputable they are), but everywhere else is $450 and up. Just curious how all you fanboys justify the $200 test dummy surcharge over something fairly comparable with 5+ years of field use?

**BP Pow** · 09-20-2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by JFE24

God I hate that I can't say more about the riser thing. Total fluke? Just my pair? All I can say is that the downhill performance was so good, I wouldn't care at all about the riser if I tended to stick to fairly mellow skin tracks. But IF you're skinning steep tracks on faces where fidgeting around could result in tomahawking down big lines, well, that's why we need to get back out on these things.

Dare I be the first to ask if the downhill performance matched that of the STH/MFD combo?

**JFE24** · 09-20-2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by BP Pow

Dare I be the first to ask if the downhill performance matched that of the STH/MFD combo?

You can ask, but I can't say. MFD vs. Guardian / Tracker will have to wait till it starts snowing around here. Or I move to Dubai and start skinning the SnowDome.

**JFE24** · 09-20-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by PappaG

Looks like Snow Inn has these for $285 (no clue how reputable they are), but everywhere else is $450 and up. Just curious how all you fanboys justify the $200 test dummy surcharge over something fairly comparable with 5+ years of field use?

Fanboys? Maybe people have personal experience with the Dukes, and didn't dig them. Or ski with peoeple who didn't dig them. Or maybe they have read countless threads with the well documented issues of the Duke. If you can't figure out why a Duke alternative is appealing to some people, there's really not much to say. But yeah, if Dukes seem like the better play for you, then sweet. Always nice to have options.

**pappag** · 09-20-2012, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by JFE24

Fanboys? Maybe people have personal experience with the Dukes, and didn't dig them. Or ski with peoeple who didn't dig them. Or maybe they have read countless threads with the well documented issues of the Duke. If you can't figure out why a Duke alternative is appealing to some people, there's really not much to say. But yeah, if Dukes seem like the better play for you, then sweet. Always nice to have options.

Yes, fanboys. Something new comes on the market with few people having direct experience with it yet herds of people claim it as the holy grail. (Not necessarily in this thread, but overall with this product? Yes). An alternative would be something mutually exclusive, price notwithstanding, I don't see it. Cool that it's there, but it just seems we moved horizontally in the progression of things. In the end, how you can not sit back and laugh at the mentality on this board when a new product arrives? Look no further than the rise and fall of Plums.

**sar13** · 09-20-2012, 12:01 PM

Good review. Also nice to hear your thoughts in the Automatic and R2 115 since I was debating between those two skis.
Re: the heel riser. Since it happened on one pair and not the other, could the binding have been mounted with the heel just slightly further back than it should be? I've seen this on a lot of Fritschis. The track comes down wrong and pushed the riser back and down.

**marshalolson** · 09-20-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by sar13

Re: the heel riser. Since it happened on one pair and not the other, could the binding have been mounted with the heel just slightly further back than it should be? I've seen this on a lot of Fritschis. The track comes down wrong and pushed the riser back and down.

personally don't think that is possible in any possible way.

the wire bail is mounted to the heel track, but does not index to anything in the binding tray. if the heel is off a mm or two, it won't matter. the binding likely won't click into the heel though...

the salomon jig holes do not move relative to one-another, so you would really have to be a space case to botch it.

my guess (and guess only, since i have yet to ski them) is that the wire combing bail was a little under sprung and that caused it to drop too easy under high pressure. all that would need to happen (again as a guess only) is that the bail is pulled from the binding, bent a little, and popped back in.

PappaG - has anyone (other than cody and mike d) claimed the guardian is anything more than potentially an incremental improvement over the duke? really all it is IMO is a different set of choices made under "compromises" restrictions, which for a consumer is great... they can choose what compromises better suit their needs.

1. lower stand or moving AFD + compatibility with AT soles?
2. ultra heavy/very stiff or pretty heavy and pretty stiff?

etc.

curious about the perceived "rise and fall" of plums though... they are still more durable, lighter, and have better retention than a dynafit radical 12? has anyone claimed them to be other than that?

**pappag** · 09-20-2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

curious about the perceived "rise and fall" of plums though... they are still more durable, lighter, and have better retention than a radical 12? has anyone claimed them to be other than that?

Before Plums were released, the TGR herd were all over them claiming holy grail status much like the Guardian over the Duke. Remember how many Dynafits were up for sale when the Plum came out? Record numbers. Everyone and their mothers were selling used pairs for <$300. Even if the Plum is a great product, the radical shift from one brand to the next in such a short period of time is comical. Then people got their Plums and some reported problems, breaks not available, etc. Now back to the Dynafit bandwagon most went.

I believe there's a polling thread about what AT do you prefer. Granted it's a non-scientific approach to which AT binding is best, but c'mon... just look at the responses to something a few have even tried. How can the hype honestly be justified with so little having hands-on experience? Just take a step back and look around. I can't be the only one that finds this shit amusing.

Personally, I've only 1 problem with Dukes/Barons in the 5 years I've had them with 1 of several pairs finally breaking after 200+ days. If the Guardian weighed half as much while providing the downhill performance of a 916, then you have me sold. But try to sell me something for $200 more that FOR ME is effectively identical, then I'll consider my cheaper, tried & tested options.

**kolkritan** · 09-20-2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by PappaG

I believe there's a polling thread about what AT do you prefer. Granted it's a non-scientific approach to which AT binding is best, but c'mon... just look at the responses to something a few have even tried. How can the hype honestly be justified with so little having hands-on experience? Just take a step back and look around. I can't be the only one that finds this shit amusing.

You're not alone

**marshalolson** · 09-20-2012, 01:20 PM

I could not find a single pair of plum guides listed in gear swap for less than $450 in the last 6 months...?

Just saying.

But either way, I totally agree with you about guardian, but that has more to do with the compromises that binding has made being totally un-appealing to me.